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The teams mentality is the problem.


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#31 Vansicle

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

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THIS.

Gillis is relying on the team building strategy (a la the Detroit model) that worked last decade. The game has changed though. Youth, size, speed, and yes Burkie levels of truculence...lol are the way teams win in the playoffs now.

The coach is disconnected and aloof. The GM is in denial. The strategy is tired and broken. No one fears this supposedly elite team.

Time for big changes. Gillis should start with AV now unless he wants to be out the door first.

Gillis said over a year ago that he intended to build a team based on offense and speed. He has, for the most part done that. Pepper in some grit here and there, and responsible two way players and boom! Head coach plays to not lose. Real ballsy.
Until this team's strategy takes a step into the present, they will remain a former great team.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#32 Yotes

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:17 AM

I disagree with Deb

Last year we had great overall season presidents trophy but we knew we neededto be better once the playoffs started. We all know how that worked out.

To stand pat yet again is not what a proper GM in the league should do. The blame faults on AV and the GM. the GM has an out card by firing the coach, especially since he didnt hire the guy. So how long do you sit around and wait to pull that trigger.
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#33 snucks

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

Yeah, after the Boston cup series the Canucks lost their swagger. Everyone new it, except management. AV did not get them there despite wining the presidents trophy twice. AV over thinks things and has too many assistants. Its just like the too many refs. One man needs to be the decider. A coach must keep it simple and not surround himself with scapegoats.
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#34 MayRayDown

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

the last 2 years have just been just save it for the playoffs. the regular season they have have been lackluster except for two major games where they showed up and had urgentcy.

2011-2012 boston vs Van.
2012-2013 LA vs Van Had Sedins dangling Kopitar and Doughty, Now on a 3 game skid scoring just 5 goals. We scored 5 against LA seems like everyone just took the foot off the gas
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#35 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.


Deb, have to disagree with you here. Last year they coasted to the presidents trophy, most would say they have no idea how they won it the way they played most of the year. That was the argument last year, we'll be ready, we'll turn it on, etc..

They have become complacent, that team that was focused on everyone getting better, coming out with fire and passion every game as they did in 2011 is gone. The character in the room is a problem and a big one. When the compete level is missing something is wrong. Unlucky bounces, bad breaks, injuries etc all play a role but if the compete level is there and not results one could see your point.

However, this team's compete level is not there, cohesiveness is not there, playing a system correctly is not there. Something is wrong, game 7 gave us a glimpse, last year gave strong evidence, this year is proving it.
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#36 elvis15

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

So it is better to stand pat with a team and strategy that have not worked yet? Honestly, why does everyone seem to think that firing AV is going to self destruct this team? It is not. It is one move that can be done to help and if this team relies on AV to the poin it cannot survive without him then this team is not winning anything anytime soon anyway and bigger changes are needed.

You don't stand pat because of the fear that it won't be better with someone else as the coach. You look at the options and make a calculated risk. At this point there is pretty much zero risk that this team with its current players could do much worse than they are right now.

And honestly man, they should make you a mod here. Then you won't look like as much of a dick when you jump in and scold people like you are one.

Kind of like the people that have to comment on my posts (which if you read them aren't about being a dick but trying to be helpful by explaining real reasons why threads get locked)? I guess if people didn't understand it before I replied to them, then they won't after, eh? But I guess we should just stand pat with posters and attitudes on this site that haven't been working for years...c'mon wallstreet, you're better than that.

And I didn't say the Canucks should stand pat, I can see the need for a shake up. I don't do it for the sake of it though, it should be a move to improve the team (and not just addition by subtraction as some claim would happen with AV).

If we can get a coach that we think can do it, fine. It may take some time for the team to gel (which is what I meant by off the rails), especially in a shortened season where practice time is limited. I can even see some moves that would mean losing some of the more important players on our team (beyond a goalie) to get an improved return. Maybe not an LA Kings of last year shake up, but something along those lines.

But then that all depends on finding deals that not only improve our team, but also the other team agrees to. Getting a coach to fit with the style you want and the players you have helps too.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#37 manudibango

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:27 AM

The Vancouver Canucks never ever won the STANLEY CUP with Alain .V in the bench ,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team now playing like bunch of individual , not like a team ,poor PP poor PK POOR 5 ON 5.
Poor overtime ,and poor shout out. And the member of this team not poor at all , is millionairess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Canucks my team FOR EVER , just so painful watching now .The team have no heart and no soul !!
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#38 Hunter56

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

GOALIE FIGHT!!!
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#39 Yotes

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

Deb, have to disagree with you here. Last year they coasted to the presidents trophy, most would say they have no idea how they won it the way they played most of the year. That was the argument last year, we'll be ready, we'll turn it on, etc..

They have become complacent, that team that was focused on everyone getting better, coming out with fire and passion every game as they did in 2011 is gone. The character in the room is a problem and a big one. When the compete level is missing something is wrong. Unlucky bounces, bad breaks, injuries etc all play a role but if the compete level is there and not results one could see your point.

However, this team's compete level is not there, cohesiveness is not there, playing a system correctly is not there. Something is wrong, game 7 gave us a glimpse, last year gave strong evidence, this year is proving it.


I agree with your post
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#40 TrueBlueBoys

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

Okay here comes my argument.

I dont think that anybody can question the talent on this team it is there no question. The twins are playing well trying to carry the team and as leaders during times like this thats there role. I know gillis has made moves that are somewhat questionable but as I see it his job is to give the coaching staff the talent and players that they need, I personally think for the most part he has done that. Would it be nice to have a second line center via a luongo trade or another solid fourth liner? sure, of course it would but I have faith that gillis has made the descisions he has for the right reasons. Anywho my point is that the players have the talent and gillis has found and made these players available to the coaching staff so the missing link has to be the coaching. As a head coach in the NHL or any other pro sports leauge your job is to get the most out of your team. I think it is fairly obvious that Coach V and company are not. Im not saying OMFGZZZ FiRe THEEE COaCH!!!!!!!!11111. Give this team five more games if the slump continues say we go 1-2-2 or something of the sort. Gillis needs to think hard about making a change. Look at LA last year. Sometimes the coach loses a room and it doesnt matter where he took us or that he won a jack adams or back to back presidents trophys. Those all are great accomplishments but when you lose the room none of that matters and its time to move on unfortunatley.
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#41 canuckleface77

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

It seems like ever since the Canucks lost to Boston in the SCF they have been a different team. Even last year when they were Presidents trophy winners, they rarely impressed and kind of just coasted through the season into the playoffs. We all know how that turned out...

I truly think that the stanley cup final messed with their heads. I'm talking about Bieksa, Burrows, the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Hamhuis and most of all AV. We all hoped that after they lost in the final that they would bounce back even better then before, but that idea is quickly fading. If anything, the drive for hockey vanished that fateful day, and they realized that there are better and more important things than hockey, like wives, kids, vacation houses, private yachts, etc. And then of course we have Jesus boy David Booth sitting in the corner preaching that hockey is just a small part of his life and that the fans don't understand, and oh yeah how much he loves God and Jesus.

That brings me to AV. You can totally see that AV has lost the room. He made all of his core players way too comfortable with their jobs and status on the team. The entire core got complacent and since getting huge contracts and wives and kids they have lost their emotions that made them such an exciting team in the years leading up to 2012. AV needs to go so a new coach can come in and actually threaten some jobs that AV wouldn't have the guts to do. Im talking about you Edler.


So what you are saying is don't have wives, or kids, or anything else.

Just hockey.

Are you 14 or 15 years old?
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#42 Bodee

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

Deb, have to disagree with you here. Last year they coasted to the presidents trophy, most would say they have no idea how they won it the way they played most of the year. That was the argument last year, we'll be ready, we'll turn it on, etc..

They have become complacent, that team that was focused on everyone getting better, coming out with fire and passion every game as they did in 2011 is gone. The character in the room is a problem and a big one. When the compete level is missing something is wrong. Unlucky bounces, bad breaks, injuries etc all play a role but if the compete level is there and not results one could see your point.

However, this team's compete level is not there, cohesiveness is not there, playing a system correctly is not there. Something is wrong, game 7 gave us a glimpse, last year gave strong evidence, this year is proving it.


Spot on my friend.

I have just looked at the Conference standing 5 minutes ago and I can't believe we are lying 3rd. You have to wonder how much our stellar goalies yet again, have to do with it.
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#43 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

The need was to get bigger forwards....no offense but Schroeder isn't it...resigning Raymond and keeping Booth, who both have speed but not the size needed ...the pluggers are all servicable on the 3rd and 4th lines...our first line is intact..we are constantly being challenged physically..just as with the BlueJackets goal with Foligno and Umberger skating into our offensive zone free as a a bird without fear of any sizable backcheck...I think Gillis lost his objectivety as a manager...btw Kass is still too 'young' to help our top lines.
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#44 CCCP

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

All we need is firing AV .
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#45 Yotes

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:34 PM

All we need is firing AV .


that would be a start, then followed by a trade or two if its still needed.

People on here say the team is good enough how we sit now, so firing the coach is the logical and easier option then trying to trade a franchise goalie
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#46 Chuck in the Truck

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

Guys religion has nothing to do with it .Sedins getting older not a factor everygame .Defence is average at best ,goalies well we all know the problem there .Coach is stale,he is the one telling these guys how to play the system and stay with the process guess what doesnt work.The guy who coaches the p.p is well that speaks for itself .Was a time where you go out to score goals to win ,not suffer through this style of crap hockey.
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#47 gambler0007

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

my 2 cents are as follows,sometimes the obvious is the solution,the players are not playing for there coach anymore,history always repeats itself. I always liked AV but the layers of respect have peeled away most notably the game were he put edler in the shootout,this after another brutal defensive game. why would he use him... because he doesnt use the players properly case and point the power play why reward edler and push garrison to the back of the bus. The players have quit ,and its time to get new energy that they can believe in,sorry AV time to go. this is a business no feelings alowed i believe i heard from managment before.
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#48 kassians_fist

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

I do believe that some of it is mental and complacency but I think it started before Boston, with Chicago. Part of doing a job means that, when you give 110% and come up short, with people devaluing what you have done and the effort that you've given, it's deflating. I am dealing with that on the jobsite and if there's no reward or acknowledgement at the end of a job well done, you lose motivation.

Any team that's been on top but has failed to win the SC likely would experience this...then you have to face going through the motions of trying to get back there...only to come so close? I do feel that psychologically, you lose some of that drive. But it boils down to love of the game...if you lose that, you're doomed. Each time the guys step out on the ice, it shouldn't be about the Cup, it should be about that game and being totally stoked to go hammer it out. To keep a one day/game at a time attitude and just enjoy the moment rather than looking too far down the road. Lu's a bit of a testament to that - when he gets too caught up in the "thinking/figuring out" part, it can divert some of the focus and become a distraction. Just do it, basically.


I completely agree. Ever since the Chicago series they have seemed different.
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#49 elvis15

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:59 PM

The Vancouver Canucks never ever won the STANLEY CUP with Alain .V in the bench ,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team now playing like bunch of individual , not like a team ,poor PP poor PK POOR 5 ON 5.
Poor overtime ,and poor shout out. And the member of this team not poor at all , is millionairess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Canucks my team FOR EVER , just so painful watching now .The team have no heart and no soul !!

9/10. Would read again. -1 for not enough exclamation marks.

/sarcasm

They've never won the cup with any coach, not just AV.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#50 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

I hope we keep losing so some changes come, this is not a stanley cup team even if they somehow do "wake up" in the playoffs like some of you are suggesting. That will only get them past the first round maybe...

I just hope they win the game on the 18th since I'm going to it haha.
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#51 Socretes

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:03 PM

Sometimes when you lose it seems like EVERYTHING you did was wrong but in reality we lost the series vs LA last season because we didnt have daniel and we took too many penalties in games 1 and 2.
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#52 cc_devil

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

The only mental problem is with the coaching staff !
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#53 canucksnhl

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

I hope Booth sees this and scores a hattrick next game.
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#54 Forsy

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

I'm not suggesting that they'll flip a switch. I'm suggesting that, in previous years, they've crashed and banged their way to the top in regular season. They've put it all out there prior to getting there (to the playoffs). The comeback kids, who battled till the end in some games in order to win. Then the playoffs, and they go in depleted, already exhausted, beat up, etc. This year there's some sense that they're coasting. That they're not firing on all cylinders (I tend to agree). So maybe by the time they do wake up, it'll be just in time? Not that they say "ok, let's go now" but that it just sort of happens that way. They've always been slow starters, so maybe by the playoffs they'll be clicking again. That's my suggestion.

I would totally agree with you on this one deb, except for a couple worrying things.

-When we were losing a bit there at the start of the season, I could see the Canucks playing VERY smart even though the breaks were going against them. That was why I wasn't worried back then, and it was justified when the goalies started heating up.
-Starting the few games before the losing streak (the only exception being the win vs LAK), the entire team's game smarts seem to have left them.

The signs that game smarts aren't there:
1) The anticipation of the puck is again lost, as the opposing team rings the puck around the boards for 2 mins at a time and our players can never catch up.

2) No direct pressure on the puck carrier allows the opponent to bring the puck anywhere they like such as through the crease and around the goalie, or right to the slot for a good shot (has allowed 2 big goals in the last couple of games). By extension, the forecheck pressure is not existent - while this may be a system decision, it still seems that their defensemen have no issues bringing the puck up to the redline or even our own blue line.

3) Our players do not power move/carry the pucks to the front of the net or to the slot to take a good shot (only exceptions - higgins raymond hansen, and I have to admit that raymond is becoming the equivalent of a very dangerous 2nd/3rd line sniper). By extension, we are not utilizing making the rebounds and putting in garbage goals.

The signs that the game smarts are there:
1) We consistently have a 3rd man always on the half-wall to help retrieve pucks won from battling in the corners (I even see the 4th liners like Siestito doing it right).

2) We are improving on (ie. it's done 50% of the time now) where we set up a 5 man support for our guys that are fighting for the puck in the corner (1-2 guys battling for the puck, 1 guy near the middle of the ice for a short outlet pass, 2 guys near the blue line for long pass options and transition rushes).

Edited by Forsy, 08 March 2013 - 01:20 PM.

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#55 CupisAll

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

The only mental problem is with the coaching staff !


no, it's troughout the entire organization.
the bruins did some serious psychological damage in the 2011 SCF that this group will never recover from.
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#56 dorrcoq

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Guess what, moron? For most people their wife and kids would come before their job. And you knock a guy for his religious beliefs? Wow.
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#57 dorrcoq

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

The Vancouver Canucks never ever won the STANLEY CUP with Alain .V in the bench ,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the team now playing like bunch of individual , not like a team ,poor PP  poor PK  POOR 5 ON 5.
Poor overtime ,and poor shout out. And the member of this team not poor at all , is millionairess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Canucks my team FOR EVER , just so painful watching now .The team have no heart and no soul !!


One thing they have an abundance of - semi-literate "fans".
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#58 Canucksfan3322

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

I think the worst right now, as you mentioned, is Edler. He is playing absolutely terribly. The only d-man playing really well right now is Hamhuis, although Tanev isn't playing that badly. On the forward side, the Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, and Higgins are the only ones playing well. I feel that the Sedins have stepped up their physicality after the series against Boston. This was especially shown by Henrik in the first game against the Blackhawks this season. Raymond has been alright, but he falls every time I see him. Other players, like Lapierre, need to step up their game. When Bieksa or Ballard comes back AV should bench Edler for that game. It would send a message to the rest of the team that they need to play well or get benched. I don't think there is any other way this team will get motivated to play better.
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#59 Apples

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:31 PM

Totally Avs fault. Not enough motivation and players need a wake up call once av is fired
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#60 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

no, it's troughout the entire organization.
the bruins did some serious psychological damage in the 2011 SCF that this group will never recover from.


I agree, too bad were stuck with Gillis though.

The coaching and some of the core need a shakeup.

AV and I'm thinking one of Kes/Edler and obviously Schneider/Luongo needs to go and be replaced by equal or better talent, no more role players.

I would also be fine with Raymond,Higgins,Ballard,Booth being replaced. I like Booth's physical play though, especially in the playoffs.

Higgins and Raymond are good 3rd liners but I would rather have someone with the same skill sets but bigger.
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