Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Do the Sedin's want a cup bad enough?......


  • Please log in to reply
118 replies to this topic

#1 dman34

dman34

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Joined: 25-August 05

Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:49 AM

....to re-sign in Vancouver for second line dollars?

Let's face it, these guys are no longer on an uptrend. Great players, yes, steady and effective during the regular season, definitely, but it seems like when the playoffs roll around for the last two years now, they just do not seem to match up well against top pairing defenceman.

They were completely held off the scoresheet for the first 2 games of the series. When your first line is shutdown you're just not going to win many games. Especially when the likes of Chris Higgins and Mason Raymond are your second line wingers and next in line snipers after Ryan Kesler.

The Sedin's have given every indication that they want to end their careers in Vancouver. I can't see another contender whom they'd like to sign with clearing 10-12 million in cap space to take these guys on as a package deal (which is the only way they'll play).

I believe this creates an opportunity to re-sign them at second line money and completely re-vamp our top line. They seem like they really want to win, they're team first players and their hearts are in Vancouver. I wonder if they'll present this option to the Canucks to hopefully finish their careers as Champions and finally bring a cup to the city of Vancouver?
  • 0

#2 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

The Brothers could just as easily retire after this next year and spend a few years playing for Modo.

For highly skilled,world class players being forced to endure playoff rugby on skates in their mid-thirties must become very unattractive.

The brothers and their wives may want to go home for a few years and acquaint their children with 'home'.

If I were them that is exactly what I would do.Gillis or whomever becomes GM may have to recreate a SC contender within months for them to consider staying here beyond the end of this contract.
  • 1

#3 TheCammer

TheCammer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,634 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 08

Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

While I will agree their playoff this year was simply not good enough I don't agree it has been two years. Henrik was arguably the best Canuck against the Kings leaving it all on the ice last year despite missing his brother for much of the series.

We need a better second line to take some pressure off them. The best option would be a 1 and 1A that play almost the same amount of time.

I could definitely see them take even less money if presented a plan that improved the team. They have been pretty selfless to date.
  • 3
Posted Image

#4 TheCammer

TheCammer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,634 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 08

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

The Brothers could just as easily retire after this next year and spend a few years playing for Modo.

For highly skilled,world class players being forced to endure playoff rugby on skates in their mid-thirties must become very unattractive.

The brothers and their wives may want to go home for a few years and acquaint their children with 'home'.

If I were them that is exactly what I would do.Gillis or whomever becomes GM may have to recreate a SC contender within months for them to consider staying here beyond the end of this contract.

Definitely a possibility although I do think they really want to finish with a cup.
  • 0
Posted Image

#5 Coconuts

Coconuts

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,104 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 09

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:03 AM

I could see them taking less money if we promise to get them some scoring support. They have been our offensive engine for years, but they can't do it alone. These guys are pure class, and took less than they could have with their last contracts.

They're trending downwards, but they're still first line players and we don't exactly have a couple of those sitting around. Also factor in that we'd have to overpay in order to obtain first line players through trades of free agency.

Best case scenario is that they re-sign with us, we dump a few contracts, and pick up a couple guys who can help put the puck in the net. We don't have anyone ready to take over their first line duties just yet.
  • 0

Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted Image


#6 TheFastOne21

TheFastOne21

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 895 posts
  • Joined: 24-October 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:08 AM

Double edged sword is what explains their struggle in playoffs:

On one side you have no support that forces opposition to focus on something other than the Sedins.

On the other side the Sedins did not even require focus from opposition in the playoffs this season.

Failure on both sides and management. We need to get them more support. They need to show up. I think they resign at 4-5 million a season. That is 8-10 million in cap for 2 players but worth it. You cant let them finish their NHL career elsewhere.
  • 1

#7 High Violet

High Violet

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,535 posts
  • Joined: 04-March 07

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

I can't really wrap my head around how we doubt the players on our team for "not wanting a cup badly enough" or lacking heart. I feel a lot of times, players do pour their heart and souls into the game -- it takes tremendous dedication to even be playing in the NHL -- but they just get shut down due to less-than-par coaching, lack of momentum (maybe, as some have mentioned, playing with others who aren't as skilled or complementary to them), and etc. etc.

The Sedins have proven to us that they do want a cup. They want one more than any peanut-crunching fan watching TV, and the Sedins know they're good enough to be champions. One can argue that they've gotten stale and teams have figured them out -- sure, but they're still the face of our team -- more so than Luongo or Schneider, or anybody.


And if they do re-sign here, it means that they haven't given up on us yet. It means they still think Vancouver can be home to Stanley Cup Champions. So I don't think we should throw them under the bus.

I expect them to retire here. I feel privileged to be able to witness a pair of twins play excellent hockey, and even luckier that they're on this team. Even if they never bring a cup to Vancouver, falling one game short in the finals is still better than never making the playoffs.
  • 4

#8 Ghostsof1915

Ghostsof1915

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 24,971 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 07

Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:31 AM

Double edged sword is what explains their struggle in playoffs:

On one side you have no support that forces opposition to focus on something other than the Sedins.

On the other side the Sedins did not even require focus from opposition in the playoffs this season.

Failure on both sides and management. We need to get them more support. They need to show up. I think they resign at 4-5 million a season. That is 8-10 million in cap for 2 players but worth it. You cant let them finish their NHL career elsewhere.


Even Wayne Gretzky was traded. It would really depend on if they'd be will to go to another team, and what Vancouver was offered. Honestly, if Florida offered Huberdeau and their 2nd overall pick, you'd just shoot that offer down?

I'd like to see an on the fly revamp (rebuild) but if we really want a Stanley Cup, we need a youthful core to build around. It might be possible to keep Burr and the Twins and trade other players to get better pieces. But shouldn't we look at any option to make sure we get the right mix and the best chance of winning the cup now and for the future?
  • 0
GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

Posted Image

#9 dman34

dman34

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • Joined: 25-August 05

Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

I can't really wrap my head around how we doubt the players on our team for "not wanting a cup badly enough" or lacking heart. I feel a lot of times, players do pour their heart and souls into the game -- it takes tremendous dedication to even be playing in the NHL -- but they just get shut down due to less-than-par coaching, lack of momentum (maybe, as some have mentioned, playing with others who aren't as skilled or complementary to them), and etc. etc.

The Sedins have proven to us that they do want a cup. They want one more than any peanut-crunching fan watching TV, and the Sedins know they're good enough to be champions. One can argue that they've gotten stale and teams have figured them out -- sure, but they're still the face of our team -- more so than Luongo or Schneider, or anybody.


And if they do re-sign here, it means that they haven't given up on us yet. It means they still think Vancouver can be home to Stanley Cup Champions. So I don't think we should throw them under the bus.

I expect them to retire here. I feel privileged to be able to witness a pair of twins play excellent hockey, and even luckier that they're on this team. Even if they never bring a cup to Vancouver, falling one game short in the finals is still better than never making the playoffs.


My post was not questioning the "heart" of the Sedins.

Of course they want a cup. But do they want it enough to take a 2 million dollar pay cut each so that we can add the necessary pieces to accomplish that goal?
  • 0

#10 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,940 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:36 AM

Not sure why people think they'll sign for less than what they make now. First off, the PA won't have it. Second, they'd likely rather retire.
  • 0
Posted Image

#11 BigRedMachine

BigRedMachine

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,002 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 06

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:11 AM

The Brothers could just as easily retire after this next year and spend a few years playing for Modo.

Gillis or whomever becomes GM may have to recreate a SC contender within months for them to consider staying here beyond the end of this contract.


They are one of the main reasons we aren't a Stanley Cup contender: because our captain and two/thirds of our top line decide to mail it in in the playoffs every year.

They might as well go back to Modo, because they sure as heck didn't show up at Rogers Arena come playoff time this year, or last, or the year before.
  • 1

#12 jono2009

jono2009

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 491 posts
  • Joined: 30-November 08

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:16 AM

I think any active player in the NHL always wants to win the cup that badly.
  • 0

#13 Legend Killer

Legend Killer

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,185 posts
  • Joined: 23-May 07

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

I can't see them playing elsewhere, so it's either pay cut, retire or SEL.
  • 0
Posted Image
For the first time in a long time.. the future looks bright..

#14 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:20 AM

They are one of the main reasons we aren't a Stanley Cup contender: because our captain and two/thirds of our top line decide to mail it in in the playoffs every year.
They might as well go back to Modo, because they sure as heck didn't show up at Rogers Arena come playoff time this year, or last, or the year before.


Retarded,buddy.
They have always stated they would retire in Sweden and play for Modo as payback to end their careers.
Gillis has failed them.They never failed this club,the city or their team mates.
  • 2

#15 TheFastOne21

TheFastOne21

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 895 posts
  • Joined: 24-October 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

Even Wayne Gretzky was traded. It would really depend on if they'd be will to go to another team, and what Vancouver was offered. Honestly, if Florida offered Huberdeau and their 2nd overall pick, you'd just shoot that offer down?

I'd like to see an on the fly revamp (rebuild) but if we really want a Stanley Cup, we need a youthful core to build around. It might be possible to keep Burr and the Twins and trade other players to get better pieces. But shouldn't we look at any option to make sure we get the right mix and the best chance of winning the cup now and for the future?


Me personally would be all for looking at all options and if something is on the table that can revamp the team without 10 years of mediocrity then i personally am all in to looking at any available deal. I would say yes to Huberdeau and their 2nd overall pick. Then go hog wild in free agency getting a few good players to surround Kes and Huberdeau.

I dont think ownership and management see it that way. I believe that there is the "lifer" and "respect" aspect they use to say; "They have been here their entire careers and have been our heart and soul. They will always be Canucks and we will not part with them." I just dont see an ownership and management team saying we are trading you because you are expensive and we can get something for you.

If they honestly want to resign at $6 million/year after this year at 34, 35 or 36 years old (i forget) then forget that from my point. Sign and trade. They are on a decline and dont remotely deserve that amount of money if their game continues to decline.
  • 0

#16 hockeyfan90

hockeyfan90

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,356 posts
  • Joined: 16-January 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

Its not only the past two years, its been like that in the playoffs for them aince they became 1st liners. Great regular season, poor playoffs. They don't get as many points as they should be in the playoffs and what's scary is that their plus minus has been minus for the past 5 years in the playoffs, even during the 2011 run when all season long they've been plus players
  • 0

#17 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

Its not only the past two years, its been like that in the playoffs for them aince they became 1st liners. Great regular season, poor playoffs. They don't get as many points as they should be in the playoffs and what's scary is that their plus minus has been minus for the past 5 years in the playoffs, even during the 2011 run when all season long they've been plus players

No playoffs
2008-2009 -led the team in scoring in the playoffs :1 and 2 with +4
2009-2010 -finished 2-3(behind Samuelsson) in the playoffs with +3 and +4
2010 -2011-finished 1-2 in playoffs with a terrible +/- coming out of Boston
2011-2012-Henrik leads the team in the playoffs with 0 +/-

So,to recap,Sedins lead the team each year in scoring with one negative playoff year in +/- category.
  • 1

#18 GrooveC

GrooveC

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 93 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

Think about how glorious it would be to have them on the second line:

Trade/exit: Schneider, Booth, Raymond, Ballard, Sestito, Ebbett, Roy


???? - Kesler - ????
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - ???? - Hansen
Weiss - Lapierre - Kassian

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
???? - Tanev

Luongo
Lack


That would leave 4 holes to be filled via trade material or AHL call up (for a bottom pair defenceman) and the Sedins take a pay cut

And yes, the Sedins want the cup bad! They'd have a much better chance to help produce in the playoffs if they were on the second line with Kesler (who imo plays better than the Sedins against shutdown opponents.) and his high powered linemates taking the heat off them.

Edited by GrooveC, 09 May 2013 - 09:44 AM.

  • 0

#19 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

If they honestly want to resign at $6 million/year after this year at 34, 35 or 36 years old (i forget) then forget that from my point. Sign and trade. They are on a decline and dont remotely deserve that amount of money if their game continues to decline.


The Sedins have played here for 13 years and are on record as stating they will retire with Modo to pay respect for their early career development.
Money is not everything for these guys and offensive superstars like Lemieux,Yaerman,Gretzky and the Sedins do not continue to tolerate very dirty playoff 'hockey' like the NHL playoffs because they need to.
Gillis failed to protect them and they are getting older with families and declining strength and health issues.
  • 0

#20 GrooveC

GrooveC

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 93 posts
  • Joined: 18-April 11

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

If the Sedins are truly going to retire with Modo than we should be trading them to get some value back instead of just letting them go.
  • 2

#21 BigRedMachine

BigRedMachine

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,002 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 06

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:54 AM

No playoffs
2008-2009 -led the team in scoring in the playoffs :1 and 2 with +4
2009-2010 -finished 2-3(behind Samuelsson) in the playoffs with +3 and +4
2010 -2011-finished 1-2 in playoffs with a terrible +/- coming out of Boston
2011-2012-Henrik leads the team in the playoffs with 0 +/-

So,to recap,Sedins lead the team each year in scoring with one negative playoff year in +/- category.


You expect your top line to lead the team in scoring. How does their performance compare to other top lines?
  • 0

#22 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

If the Sedins are truly going to retire with Modo than we should be trading them to get some value back instead of just letting them go.

They will quit first and they have No Trade Clauses in their contracts.
They stated three years ago they will play their last years playing with Modo.
They played five years there,starting when they were 16 years of age.
  • 0

#23 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,483 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

You expect your top line to lead the team in scoring. How does their performance compare to other top lines?

What is the supporting cast? Did Gretzky,Lemieux and Yzerman do it alone as these guys have had to do-without protection?
  • 1

#24 PlayoffHockey

PlayoffHockey

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 382 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 13

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

The answer is simply no, theyve been no shows for years in the playoffs unwilling to pay the price.

nice guys but time to go, if they want to come back maybe 2more years at 3.5 mill but def not first line money.

if the Sedins are 2or3rd line we could win a Cup but not as our first.
  • 3
Posted ImagePosted Image

"I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I knew nothing about NHL GL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago. I was unattached to any team when I first started watching although I could easily have gone for the Philadelphia Flyers as my home team which I supported in my youth and for 20 years was the Fife Flyers."
~ Bodee

http://forum.canucks...me/page__st__30

#25 MashedBananas

MashedBananas

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,671 posts
  • Joined: 30-October 09

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

Henrik was brilliant against the Kings, so I wouldn't say the last 2 years, but they are getting older and it is showing.
  • 0
Posted Image

Sig Credit goes to Henrik Sedin

#26 Erik Karlsson

Erik Karlsson

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,997 posts
  • Joined: 24-March 09

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

Not sure why people think they'll sign for less than what they make now. First off, the PA won't have it. Second, they'd likely rather retire.


Which is why I want them traded.
  • 0

m97o1w.jpg

Credit to Parise11


#27 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,451 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

Not sure why people think they'll sign for less than what they make now. First off, the PA won't have it. Second, they'd likely rather retire.


The PA doesn't get a say in individual player contracts. The only thing that matters is the deal being CBA legal. Remember Kariya signing for peanuts to have a chance at a cup with Selanne?

Edited by Baggins, 09 May 2013 - 10:33 AM.

  • 1

HiromiOshimaB.gif


#28 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,451 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

The answer is simply no, theyve been no shows for years in the playoffs unwilling to pay the price.

nice guys but time to go, if they want to come back maybe 2more years at 3.5 mill but def not first line money.

if the Sedins are 2or3rd line we could win a Cup but not as our first.


54 points in 56 playoff games over the last five playoffs is a no-show? You'll be able to see better if you pull your head out of your butt.

:picard:
  • 0

HiromiOshimaB.gif


#29 TOMapleLaughs

TOMapleLaughs

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,940 posts
  • Joined: 19-September 05

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

The PA doesn't get a say in individual player contracts. The only thing that matters is the deal being CBA legal. Remember Kariya signing for peanuts to have a chance at a cup with Selanne?

True, but the Sedins aren't in the same boat, other than they want to play together.

However, if the Canucks aren't looking like a contender anymore, perhaps they'll sign elsewhere for peanuts. If we play hardball, this very well could happen.

Wait and see. NMC's for both next season.
  • 0
Posted Image

#30 PlayoffHockey

PlayoffHockey

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 382 posts
  • Joined: 04-April 13

Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

54 points in 56 playoff games over the last five playoffs is a no-show? You'll be able to see better if you pull your head out of your butt.

:picard:



cover your fan boi face up all you want,

these guys have been ghosts. just look at the first 3 games.... the effort and lack of compete SO WEAK they were being called out by just about every analyst in the NHL.

the Sedins wil never be the first line that wins a Cup.

Take off your rosey glasses,

we need warriors, not IKEA clerks.

They decided to show up in Game 4...too little too late.

First thing i would do is take the C off Henrik and give it to Kesler.

Sedins too mellow, zero leadership qualities in the room

not one player on our team will even fight for them or try to protect them.

time to go away, the Euro softee experiment does not work in playoff hockey
  • 2
Posted ImagePosted Image

"I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I knew nothing about NHL GL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago. I was unattached to any team when I first started watching although I could easily have gone for the Philadelphia Flyers as my home team which I supported in my youth and for 20 years was the Fife Flyers."
~ Bodee

http://forum.canucks...me/page__st__30




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.