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#1 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:46 PM

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Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly.

 

Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club?

 

Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality!

 

The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible?

 

Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's.

 

I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got!  As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops.

 

My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me?


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#2 Jiggs50

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:48 PM

Yes I converted let's tank!!
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#3 messier's_elbow

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:51 PM

So your pro tanking? Thats the jist of this right?
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#4 The Stork

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

This team certainly wants to make the playoffs they have to win out their games to even get a chance
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#5 messier's_elbow

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

Ive wanted to tank for the last month, when I knew the season was over. Looks like we will draft around 10th though..
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#6 BoKnows53

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

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Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly.

 

Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club?

 

Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality!

 

The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible?

 

Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's.

 

I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got!  As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops.

 

My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me?

When you start trying to lose, Karma comes back to bite you. 

 

Just look at Edmonton. 


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#7 D.Doughty

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:53 PM

Ask the players this. Would you purposely loose so the fans can run you out of town and have the possibility of losing your roster spot to a young up and coming player?


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#8 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:53 PM

Yes I converted let's tank!!

Not saying lets just tank, lets be constructive and tank. LOL......Just a point here, but maybe Torts can learn something here too......take a look at the minutes distribution last night.....aside from Kes, sedins and the dmen...it was pretty evenly shared! That didn';t happen much this year.


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#9 Neversummer

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:53 PM

Wait a minute, Canucks doesn't have a chance to make it to the playoffs?  I thought we did.  


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#10 Alex the Great

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:55 PM

Well you know what they say : 

 

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#11 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:59 PM

Ask the players this. Would you purposely loose so the fans can run you out of town and have the possibility of losing your roster spot to a young up and coming player?

No one said purposly lose......work your farm team. Evaluate!........And by the way, to respond to your comment......young players replacing you are a hockey players reality. Happens every year! Check out how many lost their jobs that way after the last strike.


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#12 erkayloomeh

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:08 PM

I agree with you opey. Once there was no realistic chance to make the scp then we should insert all the youngsters we can. Good post
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#13 VMR

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:16 PM

Any player who loses on purpose is not a pro.

Any boss that wants you to fail is not good at what they do.
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#14 Bure010

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:20 PM

Kassians gunna Kass

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#15 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

Any player who loses on purpose is not a pro.

Any boss that wants you to fail is not good at what they do.

Hi, not trying to disrespect you on this, but many many many teams have done this through NHL history........recently (Last 20 years), Pitts, Edmonton,Chicago......2 out of those 3 became dynasties......dont even want to try and think of them all.......PS.....Ive played for a very long time at all different levels, and you are right, players won't tank and I would tell any of my coaches to go..themselves if they asked.......but that's not what I said......I said Gillis has steer the ship.....he makes the decisions....bring up a few rookies...see what happens.......roll all 4 lines......that's all..........NOT SIT KESLER OR HANK.......just roll 4 lines, with a couple of rookies in the line up. Evaluate!


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#16 TheSecretIsMe

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:30 PM

The reality of the situation is beyond this board. I would say most of the members here understand the fragility of this team. If we tank I for one see the  upside and as stated you might as well. However, this type of in depth thinking and involvement with the team is not general knowledge within Vancouver. Most people just assume we are terrible right now and even more, a lot of them don't even understand how the draft could benefit us.

 

You can't forget that majority of Vancouver see the Canucks losing and as a result believe the team is bad. So if the team and MG decide they want to tank then the reality of the situation involves a loss of fanbase, which going forward has a negative impact on revenues. So tanking does not necessarily translate into a positive outcome and to add to this the players we draft probably won't make a real impact until 3+ seasons later. So as we continue to lose, more revenue will be lost, and more fans will be lost and in the long-run they may never return. 

 

Further, the Vancouver Canucks are an organization and as an organization they seek to maximize profits. That is the reality. And if the majority of their fanbase follows when winning then they will try to win. If the only fanbase was CDC then maybe he would tank...but we're not so he'll continue to do as he must as manager and maximize profits. 


Edited by TheSecretIsMe, 06 April 2014 - 09:31 PM.

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#17 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:35 PM

Come on CDC you don't honestly think we are playoff bound? You have a better chance to win Lotto 649...........The is only 4 games left! I love my Canucks, but really?


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#18 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:48 PM

The reality of the situation is beyond this board. I would say most of the members here understand the fragility of this team. If we tank I for one see the  upside and as stated you might as well. However, this type of in depth thinking and involvement with the team is not general knowledge within Vancouver. Most people just assume we are terrible right now and even more, a lot of them don't even understand how the draft could benefit us.

 

You can't forget that majority of Vancouver see the Canucks losing and as a result believe the team is bad. So if the team and MG decide they want to tank then the reality of the situation involves a loss of fanbase, which going forward has a negative impact on revenues. So tanking does not necessarily translate into a positive outcome and to add to this the players we draft probably won't make a real impact until 3+ seasons later. So as we continue to lose, more revenue will be lost, and more fans will be lost and in the long-run they may never return. 

 

Further, the Vancouver Canucks are an organization and as an organization they seek to maximize profits. That is the reality. And if the majority of their fanbase follows when winning then they will try to win. If the only fanbase was CDC then maybe he would tank...but we're not so he'll continue to do as he must as manager and maximize profits. 

Totally agree with your post, except for 2 things. #1. We will not make the playoffs this year, even if we win all our remaining games. #2. I believe this year is somewhat of a anomally(sp)....I think the Canucks are still talented to make the playoffs....aka Dec. this year, where we played pretty good. I think we will have a lower (12 to 16 pick ) next year.Injuries killed us this year. Burrows goals alone would have put us in the playoffs...never mind the rest of the injuries. # 3. Wrong system for the players we have ( I believe) #4 If what I said is true....then this years draft pick should be as good as we can get, within the guise of fairplay and effort. Maybe I am wrong.....I was wrong on the number of points I made...lol..........Really good post! Just thinking about the otherside of the coin.


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#19 Bure010

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:55 PM

Hi, not trying to disrespect you on this, but many many many teams have done this through NHL history........recently (Last 20 years), Pitts, Edmonton,Chicago......2 out of those 3 became dynasties......dont even want to try and think of them all.......PS.....Ive played for a very long time at all different levels, and you are right, players won't tank and I would tell any of my coaches to go..themselves if they asked.......but that's not what I said......I said Gillis has steer the ship.....he makes the decisions....bring up a few rookies...see what happens.......roll all 4 lines......that's all..........NOT SIT KESLER OR HANK.......just roll 4 lines, with a couple of rookies in the line up. Evaluate!

why do guys like you that think because you played junior B it somehow makes you a hockey expert


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#20 Salmon Arm Canuck

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:01 PM

When we are mathematically out of it, then you bring in some kids, roll four lines and sit out any veterans that should rest any injuries they are playing with. Until then, you press on because, in sports, you never know until the game is literally over. 


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#21 Salmon Arm Canuck

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

We keep reading and writing about increasing our odds of getting a good pick. It's not about where you pick in the draft, it's how you develop the pick!


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#22 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

why do guys like you that think because you played junior B it somehow makes you a hockey expert

We are all experts on here buddy! Including you! LOL


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#23 TheSecretIsMe

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:13 PM

Totally agree with your post, except for 2 things. #1. We will not make the playoffs this year, even if we win all our remaining games. #2. I believe this year is somewhat of a anomally(sp)....I think the Canucks are still talented to make the playoffs....aka Dec. this year, where we played pretty good. I think we will have a lower (12 to 16 pick ) next year.Injuries killed us this year. Burrows goals alone would have put us in the playoffs...never mind the rest of the injuries. # 3. Wrong system for the players we have ( I believe) #4 If what I said is true....then this years draft pick should be as good as we can get, within the guise of fairplay and effort. Maybe I am wrong.....I was wrong on the number of points I made...lol..........Really good post! Just thinking about the otherside of the coin.

 

Thank-you for the well thought out reply. 

 

In response to your first point: I am not assuming we will be making the playoffs at all. I was simply stating that losing on purpose is not an option for the GM. Considering that we are at the end of the season, from the business side of things, the organization would most likely attempt to leave on a good note. For instance, if they chose to lose the rest of their games the already upset fanbase would have an even worse fall off. As a result, there would be an even greater decline in the admiration of the club which would most likely carry on into next season. Which I assume the club does not want.   

 

I am in full agreement of the rest of your post. Cheers!  :)


Edited by TheSecretIsMe, 06 April 2014 - 10:14 PM.

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#24 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:17 PM

We keep reading and writing about increasing our odds of getting a good pick. It's not about where you pick in the draft, it's how you develop the pick!

Totally agree with your opinion, as for your first post....maybe it all becomes a mute point sooner than later.....just remember I have a different opinion that yours, but I still respect your opinion (Solid!)


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#25 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:30 PM

 

Thank-you for the well thought out reply. 

 

In response to your first point: I am not assuming we will be making the playoffs at all. I was simply stating that losing on purpose is not an option for the GM. Considering that we are at the end of the season, from the business side of things, the organization would most likely attempt to leave on a good note. For instance, if they chose to lose the rest of their games the already upset fanbase would have an even worse fall off. As a result, there would be an even greater decline in the admiration of the club which would most likely carry on into next season. Which I assume the club does not want.   

 

I am in full agreement of the rest of your post. Cheers!  :)

I get your point and agree somewhat, and maybe living on the Island removes me from seeing the games live, but I do understand the economics, but I can guarantee, it will not matter next year whether we win the last 4 or not, if we sign a few UFA's, come out winning next year.....if we are loosing at the beginning of the season, it will not matter at all whether we lost our last 4 or not...the fan base will repond the same and not show up.......I get the not quitting......maybe in a day or 2, the points will be mute......Hope I can get on the golf course! LOL ::D


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#26 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:42 PM

I get your point and agree somewhat, and maybe living on the Island removes me from seeing the games live, but I do understand the economics, but I can guarantee, it will not matter next year whether we win the last 4 or not, if we sign a few UFA's, come out winning next year.....if we are loosing at the beginning of the season, it will not matter at all whether we lost our last 4 or not...the fan base will repond the same and not show up.......I get the not quitting......maybe in a day or 2, the points will be mute......Hope I can get on the golf course! LOL : :D

Just thinking here. A good example is the Leafs.......every year they plan for a parade, every year they are disapointed, yet they value their players very high......great fan base, yet they have a rope ready every spring. LOL I would hope ours is that strong!

About the only thing I like about the Leafs ( Their belief! Not the rope! ) :sadno:  Maybe not! LOL


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#27 elvis15

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:51 PM

Two things:

  1. Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it.
  2. You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves.

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#28 janisahockeynut

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:09 PM

 

Two things:

  1. Try convincing players like the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, etc. to not play. Maybe you get a guy playing at 90% and sit him, but someone without really any injury? Doubt it.
  2. You can't just call up whoever you want whenever you want. There are still roster limits to begin with, but also the Comets are fighting for a playoff spot themselves.

 

Point #1. Great point......delicate to say the least.........I would never sit those guys unless injured.........but you can change up #5and 6 Dman and your 4th liners a little......then roll 4 lines.......admittedly, you have to respect your players, but you can change things up a little, and take away a few minutes from the better players by rolling those lines...........still a great point!

#2 Hmmmm, I see the pitfall here! Still, isn't this the best time to test your young players.......again , I see your point.......I would still do it, but maybe this is the greatest pitfall to my idea....( I like the idea they are battling......but at the end if they are out....I am bringing them up)........Great points you bugger!


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#29 Riviera82

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:29 PM

Well, I really don't get it? GM Mike Gillis is paid to make the tough decisions and though I understand Tort's drive to win, Mike Gillis's decision is to be able to establish what the reality is and to make adjustments accordingly.

 

Case in point, with 5 games left in the season, Mike asks himself and his staff, do we really have a realistic chance to make the playoffs. If the answer is yes, then full steam ahead. If however, the answer is an honest no, then the question is, what is best for the club?

 

Now, last night LA and many other playoff clubs started resting players with nagging injuries, this happens every year, throughout the league. The win is not important, the message is "If we win good! But don't get injured!". I have heard it said on many NHL panels, and I would argue with anyone that says different. It is a reality!

 

The Canucks on the other hand, (or rather Gillis) should be making different decisions, asking different questions. Specifically, do we want to throw away draft position by winning enough to take us out of the best draft position possible?

 

Now, I am not saying don't try, I am saying this is the time to evaluate your farm system. Not on mass, but a few each game, and somewhat like those teams that are making the playoffs, If we win,so be it, but don't get bent out of shape if we play the Shroeders, Sauves, Archibalds, Mallets etc. a few more minutes than we normally do.That should be the message to Tort's.

 

I not saying play them Kesler minutes, but maybe rotate 4 lines and see what they got!  As Gillis should know, this season didn't work out as planned, but we start fresh next season, and we will know more if we evaluate, than if we don't, and a 6th place draft position is a much better position to be sitting in, if a top 5 pick drops.

 

My opinion is, always try to control your own destiny, and adjust accordingly! Anyone agree with me?

 

 

I agree with you. The team doesn't need to "tank", from Gillis down to the 4th line they just dont need to try their hardest to win. Just relax and have some fun, if they win a game that's fine, if they lose that's fine too.


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#30 Fozzy

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:43 PM

Yet another tanking thread
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