Kobayashi Maru Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 So I may as well throw my hat into the ring to be flamed. I think the Canucks will only do minor tweaks in reality, but here is my take on what I would like to see if Jimbo was on the phone 24x7. Trades: Trade Eriksson, Virtanen and Markstrom's rights to Detroit for future considerations Trade Sutter with a 2021 3rd to Buffalo or Ottawa for future considerations Trade 2021 1st, Gaudette and rights to Stecher for Rasmus Ristolainen Signings: Sign Ryan Miller again for 1.5M x 1 (Plays some games and provide mentorship for Demko) Sign Taylor Hall for 7.5M x 5 Additional scoring threat Sign Mikko Koivu for 1.5M x 1 Sign Tyler Toffoli for 5M x 4 Sign Chris Tanev for 4.5M x 3 Hall Pettersson Toffoli Miller Horvat Boeser Pearson Koivu Motte Roussel Beagle MacEwan Hughes Ristolainen Edler Myers Joulevi Tanev Demko Miller Obviously some other line options, but this gives additional scoring threats to the top 6, a true warrior in Koivu for the bottom 6 and more puck moving threats in Risto. Cap savings for the signings/trades comes from moving out Eriksson, Sutter, Markstrom, Virtanen. Didn't run the numbers but it's likely workable cap-wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 The Trades aren't reasonable. Ryan Miller is too old, better options out there. Taylor Hall likely signs in the 8+ range Can't See Koivu signing that low. Toffoli I think is generally in the 5 - 5.5 range, pretty close there. Tanev won't sign for less than 5 million, he's incredibly under rated on this board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 20 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: The Trades aren't reasonable. Ryan Miller is too old, better options out there. Taylor Hall likely signs in the 8+ range Can't See Koivu signing that low. Toffoli I think is generally in the 5 - 5.5 range, pretty close there. Tanev won't sign for less than 5 million, he's incredibly under rated on this board. -I think Detroit would take on Eriksson's cap with low actual dollars to get Markstrom and Virtanen -I think a team would take on Sutter as he's still valuable along with a 3rd. It's arguable that somebody would take him on for free. -Ristolainen trade may be a little light but a 1st and Gaudette (Maybe equivalent to a 2nd rounder) is in the ballpark likely. Hard to know based on his name being floated for 2 years. -Miller may be too old, but if we go the Demko route and mentor/coach type goalie would be the best option. Lots of options here. -Hall will likely be in the 7.5-8.5 range, so it's not too far off. Flat cap world will affect this a bit. Definitely the reality will always be a bit different, but it's mostly around boosting some of the needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthsbutcher Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 IN Adam Lowry UFA Mark Borowiecki UFA Marcus Foligno and a second for Jake OUT Sven Sutter loui no idea how or who would Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) Any trade requires a partner. The new flat cap and there are rumors circulating the cap may go down created per Bettman's interview last week change how all these idea could happen. There are going to many teams, probably well over 2/3 rds that will have internal caps. Some teams like Vancouver might get locked into not being able to do anything, it is one thing to over spend the cap or have a 120 mil budget for a team when gate receipts are over 60 mil, it is quite another when there are no fans or very few. Remember when this team "could be moved for the price of a phone call" because they were not selling out? Any deals done now have to take into account what the future cap hits will be combined with contract cost increases, now more than ever the front office as well. If the second wave continues to accelerate the way it is there is a possibility of another shut down. Who knows what the combination of Covid and the regular flu season will do, but teams will have to start thinking the worst case scenario, sorry to bring real life into the post but Covid alone, with declining case numbers still ended in a very odd season, with number going up, well? All the team may be able to do is be competitive just like the last 5 years but with some more realistic hope of the younger star players probably lots of them because their contracts are manageable. Eriksson's contract will be worth a late pick at the end of next season, maybe more, IMO maybe as much a a 2nd rounder. This could be the last time for the next 3 years that the team could retain some money to move some of the older players, if Sutter could be moved then his salary might pay for two or three younger players on the roster. Certainly now is not the time to be trading young players with manageable contracts, that said Boeser will be an exception, his next deal sets the bar at 8+ mil for the likes of Horvat, Miller and himself let alone deals for Pettersson and Hughes whose next deals should maybe be like Boeser's is now, heavily loaded at the back so their next deals start at 8 mil. How good the drafting has been might be displayed with the numerous draft picks getting a shot or IF the team can get well under the flat cap for next year, at the expansion draft. Flat cap and Covid should have the team thinking like accountants for this off season and next year, lot's of heart ache because cherished players are moving but even Linden came back. Don't trade Jake, if the fans in this market fell in love with Kassian why not Jake? His next deal will be cap friendly and he can score. Kassian became a valued PK guy. Do trade Juloevi, his draft number status might sell in a southern market but he couldn't even beat out Fantenberg or an elderly Benn for ice time. Keep Eriksson for future assets, even with a cap hit he isn't costing as much. Let Markstrom go and play the goalie of the future, named that way by the existing GM Let Tofolli go, he would cost at least 5+ mil, see if Holander, Lind, Virtanen, Gadovitch or maybe even a traded player from a Boeser deal can fit, still have Miller on that line. Re-sign Virtanen - 2.5 for 4 Motte - 1.2 for 4 MacEwen - 1.2 for 4 A healthy Leivo - 1.7 for 3 Gaudette - 1.75 for 4 All of those combined should be under 10 mil possibly Tanev - 5.5 for 3 or use his money for an offer for Pietrangelo trade with 1/2 retention, Sutter, Beagle save 3 mil in cap space After the end of next season trade Eriksson, bring back Tryamkin even at a 4, 5 or 6 his size and speed worked before 4 years at 3.75 with signing bonus. Give Demko the Spooner and Luongo recapture money if warranted. Other teams are trying to jettison big contracts, if the Canucks have enough room take on a Dubnyk with a top pick for one season, as a back up that could fit. Columbus will want to jettison some money, maybe Savard for an exchange of picks, a good deal because both of these don't require expansion protection because both are on the last year of their deals. Arizona is having a fire sale on big contracts but dealing with them might use up all the added capspace the Canucks could salvage from these contracts. They could be a good target for Ferland to land if Ferland is willing to waive. I hate that he has total power. Ferland for Stepan, Hjalmarsson (if waives), Demers with retention from them and picks instead. Try to squeeze Pettersson out of Pittsburgh only because he is Petey' s brother, his contract really goes against the plan. Leave them alone otherwise. You get the idea, no deals for long term contracts unless the player is under 25 yrs old. In the new flat cap or hard cap world a long term contract will be hard to move once the player's skill starts to diminish, nobody would trade for a 30yr old with 3 or 4 yrs with a clause. Only the very richest teams will be able to bury contracts, it will be the salaries and term that take on a more impactful role. Look at the current Canucks, all those 30+ over paid contracts with clauses, they take up a limited supply of money and a roster spots. Players without adding possible additions or re-signings, not counting other prospects Demko - 1 mil cap hit Edler - 6 mil Myers - 6 mil Benn - 2 mil Hughes - 2 mil ( bonuses) Woo - .9 mil Rathbone - .9 mil ---------------16.8 mil Pettersson - 3.5 mil (bonuses) Miller - 5.25 Horvat - 5.5 Pearson - 3.75 Rousell - 3 Virtanen - 2.5 Gaudette - 1.75 MacEwen - 1.2 Leivo - 1.75 Motte - 1.5 Lind - .9 Holander, don't know if he has an out clause Eriksson - 6 ---------------------36.6 mil total - 53.4 mil Retention - 3.7 - Total 57 mil or so. say 14 for additional one year deals and 10 for additional traded players with term. Lets say Demers (3.92 mil) and Savard.(4.25 mil) both with one more year left. Both add to the skill level and both are good trade assets at the TDL. Say a Boeser deal includes a returning dman with term, Buffalo, Colorado, Florida, Columbus. Buffalo because Eichel is really upset, maybe a really hard negotiations could get Dahlin, Boeser, Juloevi and Stecher (sign and trade) Florida for Ekblad, they have cash issues and Ekblad gets huge signing bonuses, that might a straight up deal or they throw in a pick. The purpose is to get he Canucks into a cap surplus so that they can take advantage of all the other teams All these teams that counted on the cap going up every year are now strangled for the next 3 years, players getting older, fewer teams able to take on money, guaranteed rosters starting to petrify. Each year the amount of cap hit was reduced overall by the increase in the cap, no it actually will go backwards because of aging players. Edited September 22, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckFan1123 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 15 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said: So I may as well throw my hat into the ring to be flamed. I think the Canucks will only do minor tweaks in reality, but here is my take on what I would like to see if Jimbo was on the phone 24x7. Trades: Trade Eriksson, Virtanen and Markstrom's rights to Detroit for future considerations Trade Sutter with a 2021 3rd to Buffalo or Ottawa for future considerations Trade 2021 1st, Gaudette and rights to Stecher for Rasmus Ristolainen Signings: Sign Ryan Miller again for 1.5M x 1 (Plays some games and provide mentorship for Demko) Sign Taylor Hall for 7.5M x 5 Additional scoring threat Sign Mikko Koivu for 1.5M x 1 Sign Tyler Toffoli for 5M x 4 Sign Chris Tanev for 4.5M x 3 Hall Pettersson Toffoli Miller Horvat Boeser Pearson Koivu Motte Roussel Beagle MacEwan Hughes Ristolainen Edler Myers Joulevi Tanev Demko Miller Obviously some other line options, but this gives additional scoring threats to the top 6, a true warrior in Koivu for the bottom 6 and more puck moving threats in Risto. Cap savings for the signings/trades comes from moving out Eriksson, Sutter, Markstrom, Virtanen. Didn't run the numbers but it's likely workable cap-wise. So essentially to be able to sign some free agents you’re moving 6 players and 2 draft picks for essentially Rasmus Ristolainen. This is terrible asset management. The only player with negative trade value is Eriksson. Sutter is a quality bottom 6 forward and with 1 year left should no longer be treated as a cap dump. Sutter should fetch a mid round draft pick. I don’t see a reason to trade for Ristolainen and sign Tanev. Why would Tanev stay as a 3rd pairing dman? Ristolainen is a quality player but to me there’s far more value in keeping assets, signing Tanev and Stecher, or moving Stecher in a trade and signing a quality UFA 3rd pairing dman. If we don’t think we can sign Markstrom we can trade his rights. Virtanen even if he’s on his way out has way more value than to be Eriksson’s cap dump. Taylor Hall will fetch more than 7.5. Koivu will get more than 1.5. I understand the thought process here with everything but I don’t think these are the right moves. I will say if we feel we can’t keep Tanev, Ristolainen would be a very good player to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted September 23, 2020 Author Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, CanuckFan1123 said: So essentially to be able to sign some free agents you’re moving 6 players and 2 draft picks for essentially Rasmus Ristolainen. This is terrible asset management. The only player with negative trade value is Eriksson. Sutter is a quality bottom 6 forward and with 1 year left should no longer be treated as a cap dump. Sutter should fetch a mid round draft pick. I don’t see a reason to trade for Ristolainen and sign Tanev. Why would Tanev stay as a 3rd pairing dman? Ristolainen is a quality player but to me there’s far more value in keeping assets, signing Tanev and Stecher, or moving Stecher in a trade and signing a quality UFA 3rd pairing dman. If we don’t think we can sign Markstrom we can trade his rights. Virtanen even if he’s on his way out has way more value than to be Eriksson’s cap dump. Taylor Hall will fetch more than 7.5. Koivu will get more than 1.5. I understand the thought process here with everything but I don’t think these are the right moves. I will say if we feel we can’t keep Tanev, Ristolainen would be a very good player to pursue. It's more that just being able to sign free agents. We have now moved to becoming an attractive team to sign with. To even consider this cap is king. We need to move out some of the previous regime and to do that, we have to add likely. Eriksson requires an add for a team to take him on, Sutter is close to neutral value so we may get something small in return but based on how free agency goes I think there are a lot of other options for teams. Freeing up room to sign someone like Hall, retain Toffoli and Tanev and potentially add a player through trade like Ristolainen, cap freedom is key. So essentially it would equate to Eriksson, Virtanen, Markstrom, Sutter, 1st, 3rd for Hall, Ristolainen, Toffoli, Tanev, Koivu and Miller (Or some other vet backup). If you summarize it that way, I think we come out ahead. I agree that Hall and Koivu could get some more in UFA as well, but I think we won't see the major money we have seen in other years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirston Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 And how do u sign JV to 2.5? He’d be signing as a Ufa in that case and some other team will take a chance on him for more I’d guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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