TOMapleLaughs
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Posts posted by TOMapleLaughs
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Sorry. I meant super duper ultra great, not fantastic.I'll concede to you then on that, but I was confused with you being overly positive with the 'fantastic' comment.
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This... Is correct? However, narrow in focus and besides the point, if not just being negative. And if you recall, it's TOML that is supposed to be negative.Hodgson played on the PK in Belleville and was even voted in the OHL coaches poll as a quality defensive player. Clearly we know how that worked at the NHL level (talking about his defensive ability, not his overall downfall).
A good defensive play, doesn't make him fantastic defensively - even for his age - but it does suggest he isn't a liability.
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For his age? Fantastic. But the point was to put to bed the 'bad at defense' myth.You have a lower threshold for 'fantastic' than I do. He is learning the defensive side of the game, and he is improving. His speed and strength will help him to become a very good defensive player provided that he is part of a system that emphasizes his strengths.
His problem is when he is on the backcheck, he has trouble identifying who to go to and how to prevent the pass, tie up the forward's stick, etc. All things that can come with time. There is reason for a lot of optimism, but to pronounce Virtanen as a fantastic defensive player is a bit much.
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YT, of course. For the pretty goal watchers, goal #6, although a 2-man breakaway, was real prrty. Virtanen, 0 goals so far in the series, passed up the shot to hand his teammate a gimme goal.Where's the video for game 7
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Game 7 sequence starting at 9:05: Virtanen pressuring puck carrier in his own zone, giving him fits and driving him into the boards, causing a turnover. That opposition player? Sam Reinhart.
This is not an isolated incident. I think we can put this myth of him not being a good defensive player should be put to bed. He's a fantastic defensive player.
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Booth was hella attractive, y'all.A decent-sized forward who can skate, likes to snipe, can throw the body, and has been criticized of sketchy defending and dry scoring spurts? That's Booth to me. If y'all are reaching to compare him to Carter, it's also appropriate to relate him to the not-so-attractive option.
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Not really. At times he reminds me of Cam Neely.He plays identically to David Booth.
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That was a 9/10 on the sarcasmometer.Please tell me you were being sarcastic...
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Not that it's hard to point out minuses in back-to-back losses, this doesn't compute too well... 'Hansen's holding the line together, but his line is having a lot of trouble lately, but keep him in there.' Whut?Hansen holds that line together, putting Virtanen there would be a recipe for disaster. I have noticed the line having a lot of trouble lately, spending much more time in there own zone and chalking up more minus ratings along the way.
Anyway, there's no point in speculating lineups until the time comes. (To me it's the Vey line that needs looking at first.)
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Finding it interesting that Bennett was called up, and there's even talk of Ehlers being called up, even though neither are ready imho. Not sure if either will play a game unless his team is out of playoff contention though. You wanna talk risky.he can play for us OR the comets if calgary is eliminated tomorrow... it's VERY unlikely he does for either one, though.
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Doubtful, unless you think the Kenins-Horvat-Hansen line is constantly being destroyed, and it's not.That line would get destroyed. Trust me, it wouldn't be that sweet
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Alright. While he could learn systems in either league, I wonder if it'll be better for him to adapt to NHL speed and game situations right away.Fair enough - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's see how he does away from Calgary in Utica, because I think you and I would both trust Green to figure out what's going on - if he looks really good, then he was being "held back" in Calgary, and if he still looks like he's floating, then it's just him needing to develop
CoHo was never called a two-way center - he was always about the offence. No one compared him to Bergeron and O'Reilly when he stepped in - some called him a Stamkos-lite but he was never billed as a strong two-way center like Bo
Disagree about Coho's labelling at the time, although this turned out to be overselling him imho: http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=452860
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I disagree. When the team has the puck he at times uses his speed to get an edge up on the play, but the passes rarely arrive. To me this is more a concern. He's being held back.The 3rd option, or "floating around" is something that Jake does - which is a concern
CoHo did transfer his numbers to the NHL - he have a great rookie season, followed it up with another successful campaign then scored 20 goals last season before he fell off the map completely this year. Of course he needs to work on his overall game, but CoHo's offense was still on the up trend until this season
No one was concerned that Horvat went pointless in the AHL - he wasn't supposed to be a point producer. I wanted him to be the go-to guy rather than 4C in Vancouver because I thought it would be better for him to have a chance at a Memorial Cup and WJC gold, but Horvat clearly turned out to be a great player for us when Benning and Desjardins kept him. Even so, scoring wasn't a big concern with Bo because he wasn't supposed to score
Virtanen is not like Horvat - his defensive game and shift-by-shift consistency needs a lot of work. He will spend some time in the AHL unlike Bo
Billed as a smart, two-way, top-6 center, with 'character', Coho's two-way game never arrived, he's constantly out of position, lazy and his offensive ability peaked upon signing his first big contract. Turns out there are various physical aspects to Coho that hampered his progression to the next level. We were oversold on virtually every aspect of his game. Aaaand we learn.
Of course people were concerned about Horvat's lack of production in the AHL. As well as there was concern about him not going to the WJC. These concerns are irrelevant though as it looks like Benning and Linden knew what was actually best for the player.
As for Virtanen, I remain totally unconcerned about his defensive game, as he's actually performing quite well in that regard, pressuring the puck carrier whenever he can every shift and knocking them on their asses, creating turnovers. If he's a defensive threat as well as an offensive one every shift, then it just seems that there's no real concern to his game at this point.
As the AHL is more for players with some major developmental requirement like speed or strength or lack of defensive acumen, I do not see the need for Virtanen to stay there for long. Esp. when the AHL isn't NHL speed, and Virtanen is.
Then again, perhaps Benning and Linden do have an AHL development plan in mind for him so he can come into the NHL and dominate right away, rather than being brought in slowly like Horvat. I think both plans have merits. Time will tell. I do not believe that anyone here truly knows.
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While scoring-only stats are nice to overview, I think you have to look at it this way with 17-18yo players with regards to NHL effectiveness: "When he's not trying to score, he's ___________." If the blank is 'watching his team getting scored on' or 'getting physically dominated' or 'waiting up-ice to get the puck again', then there would be a legit concern with his development. But that doesn't describe Virtanen.IMO, the numbers you compare actually only show how amazing Nic Petan is in the WHL, rather than show how impressive Jake's production has been considering his minutes
For example, Brad Richardson (2.10) has a better P/60 than Henrik Sedin (2.00) - does that mean Richardson would outproduce Henrik if he played Hank's minutes? Against the competition that Hank faces? Hell no - Richardson's P/60 would drop like a rock if he played Hank's minutes because he wouldn't be able to score at that clip with more minutes against tougher competition
Another example - just compare P/60 of Henrik playing monster minutes under Tortorella (1.80) vs Henrik playing managed minutes under Desjardins (2.00) - same player, higher P/60 with less minutes (stats from BehindTheNet)
Now, I'm not saying that Jake is like Richardson and Petan is like Henrik. Jake obviously has skills that make him an offensive threat every night, but he doesn't have the consistency to be a threat every night (like Petan and Henrik)
It's nice that Jake has a great P/60, but I think his lower TOI actually covers up the inconsistencies in his game. The names you find Jake among are the guys that bring it every night and are relied on for offence every night, and we know Jake's struggles with consistency - if Jake were to actually play the minutes that those guys play, I would bet that his name would not be found among theirs and be lower in the list
Sidenote - Bukarts and Draisaitl are 1995s (turned 19 last calendar year), so I guess Jake would be 4th among 1996s WHLers (if that means much at all)
Man, I sound awfully negative in my last few posts in this thread... I'm just concerned that our highest pick since the twins seems to have had an off-year for whatever reason. I wanna end it on a positive note that I still believe in Jake and am glad we have a prospect with the tools that he has. Once he goes to Utica when Calgary's season is over (I'd actually prefer that they win tomorrow and keep going in the WHL playoffs because I think it's important for him to experience some team success there), I'm hoping that Green should be able to diagnose what went wrong in Calgary for Jake
To that end we've seen an improvement in his playmaking skills, his attention to defense, particularly in a shut-down role, and of course his size and strength, to the point of bullying everyone on the ice. We cannot confirm this with stats alone, but my feeling is that his development path right now is set to get him into the NHL in an effective two-way role sooner rather than later. Pretty much like how it was done with Horvat, who had a defensive acumen and size but had to work on his speed. Virtanen has the speed, so what did he focus on? His defensive acumen.
I think we're gradually starting to figure out why a player like, for instance, Coho could not transfer his amazing junior numbers to the NHL and why you have to be an elite scorer at the NHL level to make up for a total lack of defense, and even then you're still going to need defense to stick in the NHL. Coho went from CHL player of the year to buyout candidate.
Further to that, even AHL-level offensive numbers are meaningless. Was there 'great concern' when Horvat went pointless in his 5 AHL games? To the fans, yes, but to management and scouts, no. Horvat's a 19-20yr old NHL level beast now while an AHL all-star like Vey is still finding his way at age 24.
I'm not sure if Virtanen is eligible for AHL time or not after his Hitmen season is done, but it should be interesting to see where Benning/Linden put him at that point. Like Horvat, I doubt he'll need much AHL time at all.
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Virtanen is not eligible to play for the Utica Comets but could join the #Canucks. Agent Jarrett Bousquet says he has not talked to Van.
Confused as to how Virtanen is not eligible to play in the AHL. Jensen did at 18yo. As did Schroeder and Coho.
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That's up to the organization to decide. fwiw I see no risk at all.it would be pretty foolish to play jake in a game while others that have contributed to the comets would be in the press box. He doesnt know the systems and has yet to play against men. Every game that the comets play after jake would join is important. Not worth the risk.
People assumed Baertschi would be in Utica for the rest of the season and playoffs, because that's what was best for him, yada-yada-yada. Obviously Benning and Linden had other ideas.
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Utica does what we want them to. That's the point of having your own farm team.Why are fans assuming Virtanen would get ice time in Utica? Utica is in Calder CUP play. I doubt a young player like Virtanen would get any TOI. I doubt he would even go to Utica. Send him home to Van and have him skate with the Canucks so that he can get a feel for pro hockey by practicing and working out there.
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He looked like a rover before he scored that goal, then he started to settle into a more classical defensive stance. Looked like a pure adrenaline game for him complete with butterflies. He must be very stoked that he scored.
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Interesting goal as he looked like a forward on the rush. Hard to just his pro future based on that though, since all the opponents seemed to be standing and watching, bewildered. Still, good to get that monkey off his back right away.
Also found it odd to see him playing the right boards on the power play, in particular, the Crosby spot, in so many college highlights. Is he actually a forward? (Actually, he's both. A forward who converted to defense.)
Curious to see what his game is like without the puck in his own end against decent competition, but for now he's an interesting pro prospect, if not a weird one.
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imho This is because of his speed compared to WHL competition. A lot of the time he able to catch up with the puck carrier very easily and because Calgary is often giving him defensive assignments, he's putting pressure on the puck carrier a lot, and the pressure is significant because Virtanen can just catch up and paste them into the boards. Other times he can head up ice and doesn't get the pass, and then he slows down, waiting for the teammates to catch up, physically and mentally.i don't know if its the Hitmen defensive zone system but every time Virtanen is on the ice for a goal it looks like he's playing someone else's position. I don't watch enough Hitmen games to comment but I always see him on the right side, left side and even playing in the middle when they are breaking out/back checking. It's not a bad thing if he's covering for a center but boy he is not engaged enough to be solid defensively with center responsibility.
What's interesting is that Calgary puts Virtanen in every situation and with every linemate combo possible. Is that building his versatility? Or just frustrating him? If it's frustrating him, he isn't showing it. Kinda like how he looked for Team Canada, just glad to do whatever the coaches want him to do. For now he just looks like he's in the wrong league. He needs to be in a faster one.
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A post closer to 10,000.
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My impression of him is that he's far too fast for Calgary and he constantly has to slow down and wait for his linemates. He's also been the most physically dominant player in any given game he's been in this season. Calgary's been using him in all situations, with many different linemates, but esp. in a shutdown role. He is able to tightly check any assignment because of his speed and size, and it's not just him plowing guys into the boards shift-to-shift, he has an active stick as well. He even takes some important defensive zone faceoffs and can win them. This is intriguing because that means his reported 'lack of defense' is pure mythology.
It's just a guess, but I can see Jim Benning possibly being involved with this type of usage, if not Virtanen himself. To get Virtanen more focused on defensive assignments instead of trying to score as many goals as possible. This will only make him a better, more complete NHLer in the future.
The only thing I see wrong with him is he is guilty of creating the odd turnover. Understandable due to his age and the fact that all young players do this now and then. imho This is correctable by increasing the speed of his linemates so he can create easier plays on the rush, and getting him trained on better team systems, and I don't think that will be available to him in Calgary next season.
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I disagree.The same things I saw at them prior to the draft last summer, except more of it a year later. Virtanen has shown mostly the same as well, but he wasn't the consensus no-brainer guy then, and he isn't the consensus no-brainer guy now.
I agree.Well, that's kinda why it's your hypothetical scenario then isn't it?
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Sorry, but in my hypothetical scenario it does. In that scenario, given Virtanen's play in the WJC and MDC's demotion from the same tourney, the hypothetical scouts for the top-5 picks in the draft get excited and forces him up the rankings. They also get excited for Larkin and Pastrnak, but not enough to put them into top-6 draft positions. You will find this totally useless and moot argument based on a hypothetical situation and outcome built to my own design is fool-proof. "Oh but this player will rise instead..." Nope, sorry. La-la-la-la-la.Just because there's a "potential decline" on MDC's stock doesn't mean a potential rise in Virtanen's stock - that rise in Virtanen's stock has to come from Virtanen's good play IMO, and he hasn't done that IMO
Meanwhile, guys like Larkin and Pastrnak have done exactly that to move up (and McCann as well but not to the extent that the two aforementioned have)
Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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