JohnTavares
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Posts posted by JohnTavares
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10 minutes ago, Baratheon said:
I legitimately don't care but find it interesting that I got a 'friendly' warning by Deb, whilst being constantly harassed about my username....
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8 minutes ago, dougieL said:
Let's just put it very simply. Footspeed is one of the most valuable and coveted assets in the NHL, and we're paying a massive premium for a guy who lacks footspeed in abundance.
It's really clear who's watching the games and who's not.
OEL's lack of footspeed is a massive issue right now. No amount of structure or systems will suddenly make him a top pairing defenseman again.The best hope we can have for OEL is to acquire a #2LD so that OEL can play in a comfortable/sheltered third pairing role and hopefully he will be able to provide some value back to the team. If he can provide mentorship/leadership and stabilize a third pair then that's all we can ask for at this point.
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8 minutes ago, Alflives said:
I’m following your logic. You said OEL, being over 30, must be on decline. So, following that logic, JT must be on decline. And since OEL is paid 4 mil (by us) less per season, the JT must be the worse contract. Why is it we can criticize our players but not other teams’ players?
Still harassing me about my username.
Deb are you really not going to do anything? Wow. Unreal.
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Just now, shiznak said:
They also couldn’t afford Burakovsky at 5.5m.
If they trade for Bo. It’s strictly going to be a rental and a cap dump coming back our way.
They choose Nichushkin over Burakovsky. They don't need another winger in Burakovsky... they already have Rantanen, Nuke, Lehkonen and Landeskog.
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4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:
No shit, he did re-sign him though and was developed under Benning’s watch. So splitting hairs with that one honestly.
We're going to give credit to GMs re-signing their RFAs now?
If anything, Horvat developed in spite of JB's moves. Terrible rosters/culture, went through 3 head coaches, etc.
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14 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:
Yup totally agree no Byram no Bo for Avs
46 minutes ago, Alflives said:If Bo goes to the Avs it’s Byram and Newhook coming back. Girard is craperolla. Not interested.
And why would the Avs trade Byram for a rental?
Y'all are funny - this isn't NHL 23. If you guys want to live in your own world - go ahead.
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47 minutes ago, qwijibo said:
Colorado couldn’t afford to pay Kadri $7m a season. They’re not going to be able to extend Horvat
Not a 1:1 comparison.
Kadri was 32 when he signed extension, Bo will be 28.It's not that Colorado couldn't afford to pay Kadri, it's that they didn't want to.
There's a difference.
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26 minutes ago, Alflives said:
So by your theory John Tavares is in serious decline and is one of the worst contracts in the league, right?
Still harrassing me about John Tavares.Gonna do something?
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12 minutes ago, aGENT said:
The biggest thing overlooked on this board is that it's a TEAM sport. As @ilduce39 mentioned, this is the exact same problem fans had with Edler during our worst years. Constant whinging about "too slow", "too old", "overpaid" etc... yet when we started to improve as a team towards the bubble run, so did he "miraculously". Also seems to be doing just fine on the Kings as well (though finally starting to show his age at 36).
It's hard to look good as a d man, on a poor team. Particularly when you're the main guy relied on for key matchups, dzone starts, PK etc (just like Edler).
So how I ask, is OEL supposed to look good on a team that plays with zero structure, lacks defensive F's, has to deal with constant outmanned rushes, forwards giving the puck away up the middle constantly, not supporting the puck and until recently, nothing resembling a complementary partner (Bear...and even he is arguably playing over his head there) and with that usage?
This team desperately needs a "Cernak", "Pesce", "Zub" or two to partner with Hughes/OEL as well as a hard minute, 2 way 3C and a couple more Mikheyev-like 2 way forwards with some speed/size/grit in the middle 6 to replace the likes of Garland/Boeser.
This team's biggest problem (besides the obvious roster holes) is "fit", complementary players and chemistry. We have an awful mish-mash of redundant or ill fitting players taking up cap and roster space. That doesn't make them bad players in a vacuum, they're just poor fits here. It's half of building a good team. You need to assemble pieces that are "greater than the sum of their parts". We have a fair bit of work to do there.
OEL is a good d-man, but he (like others good players on the team) need management to actually put them in position to succeed. We've failed at doing that for years now.
You constantly say OEL performed well last year... you know it's the same head coach and the same "structure".
You know that right?
So OEL went from a #3/4 last year to a bottom pairing defenseman this year due to the same structure and coach that we had last year? Make that make sense for me bro.
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23 minutes ago, Alflives said:
So by your theory John Tavares is in serious decline and is one of the worst contracts in the league, right?
Absolutely... isn't this universally known?
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To COL:
Bo Horvat (50% Retained)
Kyle Burroughs
To VAN:
Sam Girard
Alex Newhook
Pretty self explanatory... Bo Horvat is the perfect #2C behind MacKinnon. Girard is a nice piece but he'll eventually need to be moved as Byram will has basically supplanted him. Newhook is a nice piece but the Avs are more likely interested in winning the cup versus trying to develop Newhook - he likely won't be a material/impact player for 3-4 years. This doesn't fit the Avs timeline. The package is quite large for a potential rental, but the Canucks retain half and add in Burroughs as an interim LD replacement if needed to offset.
Canucks, as reported, is not looking for prospects and wants to make a hockey deal. This is the perfect hockey deal for them. Newhook has potential to be a #2C behind Pettersson in the future, and Girard is likely the second best defenseman on the team after Hughes. Girard is only 24 - he still has a lot of years ahead of him on a decent, cost-controlled contract. This it the type of move that will help the Canucks accelerate their re-tool. Losing Horvat sucks but this team needs to take a few steps back in order to take steps forward.
Re: Contract Extension
I think this could work as a deal regardless if Bo has an extension in place. I think Sakic would be confident to get Bo on an extension with a discount. Bo clearly wants to win and Avs clearly have a a need for #2C - Horvat would be the perfect center to complement MacKinnon. The money saved from Girard (5) and Newhook (2/2.5?) next year is probably sufficient for Horvat's extension. 8 years for $7.5M per probably gets it done. And for people saying why would they give Horvat an extension when they wouldn't for Kadri, Horvat's extension kicks in when he's 28, whereas Kadri was 32 - that's a huge difference. -
2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
I wasn’t for the deal - I’m saying it’s ridiculous how on a team full of underperforming players there’s an undue amount of flak thrown at OEL.
How many of those players are making $7M and have 4 more years left on their deals?
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7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
That’s not how it works on a team… and who’s saying he isn’t trying? He looked good last year when the team was playing better. He looks worse this year along with the whole team.
That’s as much a pattern as “he’s getting older so he’s getting worse.”
You got to be kidding me.
He's getting older so he's getting worse is an objective trend throughout sports and life in general.
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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:
We get it! But we don’t need other teams fans coming to our board to rub true Canuck’s fans noses in it. This is classic trolling. Why are you on our board, when clearly you’re a Leaf fan and hate us?
Can you please do something about this? Dude has been harassing me for years about my username.
I understand if you turn a blind eye, gotta keep the regulars happy. -
2 minutes ago, iinatcc said:
He's a veteran and former captain of an NHL Franchise and wears an A in his Jersey. If he can't be one of those people that can bring structure to the team than why even acquire him?
Thank god.
Some people want to baby OEL like he's a 21 year old defenseman out of college or something.
OEL should be the type of player to provide structure, leadership and veteran presence/stability. It's not the other way around.
He's supposed to be part of the solution. He is currently not - he's very clearly part of the problem right now.
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1 minute ago, iinatcc said:
Ok ask yourself another question. If you weren't a Canucks fan let's say would you be happy if your team takes OEL's contract?
I am asking because an honest answer let's you see things objectively (see my thread
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Some people either won't get it or are in denial. It's ok - it's not our job to change their opinions.
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2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:
Edler and the Sedins had full no trades with zero desire to move. The rest of those players?
You’re talking about leaving a 5 dollar bill on the sidewalk and scoffing line he should have been a millionaire… not to mention as if you aren’t the type that would have been excited over Dahen and Goldobin.
LOL. You know it's part of the GM's job to navigate NTC/NMCs right?
You know who signed Edler to an extension with a FULL NMC in his last 2 years in Vancouver? Yeah take a wild guess buddy.
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Just now, Alflives said:
So what’s your friggin’ point? We are Canuck fans. Or are we? Some appear not to be. Look at your poster name! Are you a Canuck fan and only a Canuck fan? Or are you a LOSER Leaf fan? That’s what this thread is about, right? About being a fan who likes vets their club and hates the rest. It’s fine to be critical of our team, but as a fan of our team. And not coming here as a fan of another team.
#hateallothers
Deb? Paging Deb. -
2 minutes ago, Alflives said:
Isn’t this our club’s home board? Why would any Canuck fan use a hated Loser Leaf as their poster name? Hopefully it’s some kind of mockery because that’s all Pyjama Boy deserves. Worst contract in the league!
#hatetheLOSERLeafs.
Deb are you going to do something about this? @-DLC-
Or just pile it on me because I'm used to it here.
Alf, we've been through this 100 times.
I picked this username in 2006. Unless I knew ahead of time that John Tavares was going to sign with the Leafs, then what you're saying really has no merit. Either way, why does my username matter? Why does it bother you so much? I guess life must be going good for you're bothered by the username of a random internet stranger on a hockey message board.
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Just now, iinatcc said:
I think the best way to know the actual value of OEL is to ask yourself. If let's say OEL was part of the Oilers how would you be seeing him a player and the value of his contract.
Pretty sure everyone's initial reaction will be being laughing at the Oilers
Yup.
This is what I mean by denial... we are Canucks fans so it's hard to view our own team through objective lenses.If OEL was on the Oilers, we'd be laughing eternally.
The truth is that OEL is declining and doesn't have the footspeed to be an effective top four defenseman anymore. I think he would do well in a third pairing/leadership role, but he's being paid $7M. -
9 minutes ago, -DLC- said:
Enough with the "delusional" told you so crap.
Especially bumping your old threads in order to do so.
.
Where were you protecting me when I was getting dogged/abused when I made this post?
But now that I turned out to be right, it's suddenly 'stop with the told you so crap'.
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25 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:
Bo, Miller you know our leading scorers the last two years. but omitting them makes your argument look better, so I get it.
Even if traded they are what will bring in another piece or 2 of the core if not more if both end up being moved.
We're talking about management. You said JB left a good core... why would you attribute Horvat to that?
You know who drafted Horvat right? It wasn't Jim Benning hint hint.
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4 hours ago, Diamonds said:
Benning inherited a pretty bare prospect cupboard, but to say he didn't inherit assets is pretty disingenuous.
Benning inherited still valuable and on good contracts players in 32 year olds Bieksa and Hamhuis, Jason Garrison, 29/30 year old Ryan Kesler, a still productive Alex Burrows, 28 year old Jannik Hansen, a 0.5ppg Chris Higgins, and of course a young Chris Tanev, still fairly young Edler, and the Sedins among others.
All of those players had value to contenders. The only ones that Benning got good value out of were Kesler and a 2nd for Garrison (which he then stupidly flipped for Linden Vey). Really the biggest problem was that rather than actually collecting assets Benning decided that he would be better off trying to get other teams struggling/not quite good enough for their team's prospects instead to "expedite the rebuild".
Thank god people here have a brain - it's so refreshing to see that some people on here are still sensible with their takes. Kudos to you.
People always act like JB was left with NOTHING and that he had to build from the ground up.
Yeah no, MG totally didn't leave this team with Horvat (future #1A/B C), Tanev (future #2/3), Markstrom (future 1G) and a plethora of assets to trade from including: Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis, Hansen, Higgins, Garrison, Kassian, Lack and even the Sedins.
The overall value JB got out of the existing assets on the team was so freakin' bad.
Kesler - 1st, Sbisa, Bonino -> 1st became McCann, would have been a good trade if we just kept him. Bonino for Sutter and then signing Sutter to an extension was just pure buffonery. Sbisa will be forever in Canucks history as folklore for being so freakin' bad.Burrows -> Dahlen (lol)
Bieksa -> 2nd round pick
Edler -> nothing - rode out his prime and never sold at max value
Hamhuis - > botched trade deadline...Hamhuis played another 4 years after this
Hansen - > Goldobin (lol)
Higgins -> nothing
Lack -> 3rd round pick
Garrison -> 2nd round pick
Kassian -> Prust (lol)
Sedins -> nothing
So out of all the assets on this team, we managed to get a couple mid picks, and some nobody prospects/young players. Truly dreadful asset management.
Imagine selling Edler at his prime? We would have gotten multiple firsts/prospects.
Imagine trading the Sedins in the last couple years of their deal? We would have gotten multiple firsts/prospects?
Imagine selling Higgins and Hamhuis when they should have been sold? We would have gotten multiple picks/prospects.
I suspect most EA NHL GMs would have handled this better than Jim Benning.
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2 minutes ago, dougieL said:
Yeah the fact that we gave up assets to acquire what everyone knew to be an anchor contract was literally one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
I remember when I was arguing with someone on HF saying that the Canucks would never pay top assets like a top 10 pick to acquire a contract that would likely be an anchor very soon.
I was wrong...
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[Proposal] Horvat to Colorado
in Proposals and Armchair GM'ing
Posted
Girard and Newhook will cost about $7.5-8M. Horvat's contract would net to roughly zero.