Erik Karlsson Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 samuelsson was typically the guy carrying the puck through the neutral zone and controlling zone entries. you should try looking past the keslers (inflated via powerplay) numbers and the fact he wears blue and green and watch him analytically. he has poor vision, a lack of creativity and average puck smarts. he's one of the best battlers in the league and has a work ethic that can't be questioned, but he has some glaring deficiencies for the role he's playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kane Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It wasn't that long ago that I remember reading a Kesler vs Toews thread, not people are asking if Kesler's best days are behind him? I know fans can go overboard sometimes but this is a bit much. Kesler is in his prime and has many great years ahead. I'm not a fan of some of Kesler's antics (i.e whinning sometimes, diving) but the guy is a tredemndous talent and plays with an age. There aren't too many 2nd line centres who play as well as he does (overall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3tt3rB3rg19 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 samuelsson was typically the guy carrying the puck through the neutral zone and controlling zone entries. you should try looking past the keslers (inflated via powerplay) numbers and the fact he wears blue and green and watch him analytically. he has poor vision, a lack of creativity and average puck smarts. he's one of the best battlers in the league and has a work ethic that can't be questioned, but he has some glaring deficiencies for the role he's playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 samuelsson was typically the guy carrying the puck through the neutral zone and controlling zone entries. you should try looking past the keslers (inflated via powerplay) numbers and the fact he wears blue and green and watch him analytically. he has poor vision, a lack of creativity and average puck smarts. he's one of the best battlers in the league and has a work ethic that can't be questioned, but he has some glaring deficiencies for the role he's playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Perhaps you should watch more teams around the league before coming to your opinion of him not being a 2nd liner. Of course he has deficiencies, I'm not argueing against that. Nonetheless though he is one of the better 2nd line centers in the league. Sure his goal totals were inflated, but it's not a stretch to assume he can be a consistant 60-70 point 2nd line center. How many other 2nd line centers around the league would you have ahead of Kesler if I may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I dunno dude. The guy is a THREE time Selke finalist at center. Hes the 3rd guy in NHL history to score 40 goals and win the Selke in the same year. Pretty tough to argue he aint an effective center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I dunno dude. The guy is a THREE time Selke finalist at center. Hes the 3rd guy in NHL history to score 40 goals and win the Selke in the same year. Pretty tough to argue he aint an effective center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieColeman Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 it's not tough to argue. i've argued it already and all you've done us throw out stats instead of addressing my points. and i never once said he was ineffective at center. the fact is his LINEMATES are ineffective offensively when he plays center. there was a decent chunk in '10-11 where he and raymond found chemistry and he used his linemates effectively, but that's disappeared again since. even burrows, who everyone here thinks has unreal chemistry with kesler and who is a player that makes his linemates better hasn't been able to really gel at all with kesler since the days of frick and frack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 the problem i see is that kesler gets the center position by default due to a terrible lack of depth at the position. he's the most defensively responsible guy available to play on the line (and the center in most systems is expected to be the first guy back) and the best faceoff guy available to play on the line, so the position is his. i don't care about the contract really, but vinny lecavalier i think would be a tremendous addition at that spot. it frees up kesler to bounce between 2r and 3c and adds a ton of much needed depth down the middle. nobody expects vinny to put up 100 points anymore, but i think with a new environment to reinvigorate him and joining a pretty darn good team he'd be good for a few more 60-70 point seasons at least, while also adding size, skill and toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonorJCM Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This team has NEVER won a cup. So winning a cup is all that matters. If Kesler scores 40 goals and we do not win a cup is a choice OR If kesler scores 8 goals and the Canucks win a cup, which do you pick ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 This team has NEVER won a cup. So winning a cup is all that matters. If Kesler scores 40 goals and we do not win a cup is a choice OR If kesler scores 8 goals and the Canucks win a cup, which do you pick ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3tt3rB3rg19 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 i'll go through it team by team when i'm not on my phone. kesler is a good (maybe even great) second liner, but not at center. a center needs to make his line mates better. i would happily take a 2c who puts up less goals, or points even, and is worse defensively (assuming in this hypothetical the canucks have a legitimate 3rd line shutdown center like a dave bolland or whatever) if he's a better puck distributor and can qb a second powerplay unit. the only way i'd really like kesler at center on that line is if they added an elite playmaker on his wing (i've lusted after ray whitney for years, but he seems to stick to warm climates and markets that allow more anonymity) who controls the puck more than kesler. a natural center would be optimal, since i think the real formula to win the cup is to be loaded at that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 it's not tough to argue. i've argued it already and all you've done us throw out stats instead of addressing my points. and i never once said he was ineffective at center. the fact is his LINEMATES are ineffective offensively when he plays center. there was a decent chunk in '10-11 where he and raymond found chemistry and he used his linemates effectively, but that's disappeared again since. even burrows, who everyone here thinks has unreal chemistry with kesler and who is a player that makes his linemates better hasn't been able to really gel at all with kesler since the days of frick and frack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 what's your point, guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 You said he was selfish, had poor vision , had only average hockey smarts and you do not consider him a bonifide 2nd line center. You havent made any argument at all. You simply throw out personal insults. I put up the numbers. I put up the facts. Stop trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fagin Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 He's a shoot first center which is fine. Sadly I don't think there are any (off the top of my head) 2nd line centers that meet your requirements who are better than Kesler. I will agree that a playmaking winger would help out that line tremendously. Since it's pretty much impossible to get a better 2C than Kesler, instead of trying to replace him, we should build around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3tt3rB3rg19 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 GETZLAF would be a vast improvement over Kesler at 2C imo.Possibly he would improve Keslers game, if Kesler was one of his wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Getzlaf isn't a 2nd line center, he's a first line center. I asked for a list of a better 2nd line centers in the league. So far, nobody has currently listed any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Getzlaf isn't a 2nd line center, he's a first line center. I asked for a list of a better 2nd line centers in the league. So far, nobody has currently listed any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3tt3rB3rg19 Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Ok, I will, how about Malkin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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