Mr.DirtyDangles Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 What you are describing here is called the ice-albedo feedback. In climate there are forcings and feedbacks. The former refers to things that are controlled externally to the system: solar is the main one, volcano is another example. Feedback refer to things that can't be controlled externally, and it basically increases or decreases depending on the temperature, and it stays roughly in an equilibrium with the environment: water and ice sheets are feedbacks. CO2 is a special case. In the past it is a feedback, but now as we are injecting it into the atmosphere at a rate much higher then it can equilibrate, so it is a forcing. It appears my perception of these theories are inverted lol. As I begin to understand "Forcing" more I see that the current environmental changes are actually a direct result of the industry of man. These affects can be traced back with great accuracy. As we can see this in many current regional statistics. The warming trend is very palpable in the polar regions as the obvious result of the ice-albedo feedback. If you want to get philosophical then sure, I guess Homo sapien are indeed part of nature so you can argue that this is all natural change. But you won't poop around the house just because it is natural, right? Analogy is a bit of a stretch but i do see the point Yes, nature will equilibrate, but the counter intuitive fact is that warming is nature's way to equilibrate. There must be more data to support the theory on the equilibrium balancing out in it's attempt at cooling itself. The average overall albedo of Earth, its planetary albedo, is 30 to 35%, because of the covering by clouds, but varies widely locally across the surface, depending on the geological and environmental features. I do remember reading somewhere that the amount of S02 in the clouds is the major contributing factor to the reflectivity of the them. Basically causing a cooling of the earth's surface because the cosmic rays/solar rays are not penetrating the clouds as in the past. This though may only be a major factor when we are actually in the ice-house affect. This wiki quote has me really scratching my melon though. "Over the geological History of the Earth the planet's climate has been fluctuating between two dominant states: the Greenhouse and the Icehouse. These two climate sets generally last for long periods of time (many millions of years) and should not be confused with Ice ages or Glacial and Interglacial periods (which only occur during an Icehouse period and tend to last less than 1 million years). The Earth's climate is on a continuing, uneven cycle between the two states, the main factors involved in these changes in paleoclimate are believed to be the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide, changes in the Earth's orbit, and oceanic and orogenic changes due to tectonic plate dynamics. Greenhouse and Icehouse periods have profoundly shaped the evolution of life on Earth." It seems there is so much that can affect the earth's climate...... but man has been doing a great job at adding variables previously unseen/undetected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Is being only an accomplice to the destruction of fragile ecosystems somehow more excusable than being the sole perpetrator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsflash Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Whenever there's a thread on climate change, I scan for any Mad Monk posts. They make the thread worthwhile. I swear to god he has a PHD on this or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 It is irrelevant because it is illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 There must be more data to support the theory on the equilibrium balancing out in it's attempt at cooling itself. The average overall albedo of Earth, its planetary albedo, is 30 to 35%, because of the covering by clouds, but varies widely locally across the surface, depending on the geological and environmental features. I do remember reading somewhere that the amount of S02 in the clouds is the major contributing factor to the reflectivity of the them. Basically causing a cooling of the earth's surface because the cosmic rays/solar rays are not penetrating the clouds as in the past. This though may only be a major factor when we are actually in the ice-house affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I swear to god he has a PHD on this or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 MadMonk, thank you for bringing information to a thread full of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hey Monk, have you ever checked out a site called "Watts Up With That" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hartnell's Mane Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 MadMonk, thank you for bringing information to a thread full of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 My feeling is that MadMonk, thank you for bringing information to a thread full of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I second this. It has given me a lot more ammunition when dealing with people in my immediate area here in NC who haven't got a clue about climate change or what causes it. Thanks MadMonk, I'm grateful to you for your insight and information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks#01fan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Our whole solar system is going through climate change, not just earth Its a cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMonk Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Our whole solar system is going through climate change, not just earth Its a cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsflash Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 working on one (in a closely related field) so hopefully in a couple of years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 That explains the ass kicking you deal out in every thread about climate change. When you look at some of the other threads on here about gay marriage, economics, etc., they usually have to be locked to stop the bickering. The climate change threads usually only go as far as you let them. It's pretty funny seeing some of the climate change deniers not enter this thread again. Even Wetcoaster, with his years working as a lawyer, can't shut people up like you do. It's glorious. Most underrated poster on this site IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuckNuckNucks Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Global Warming is fake. It's all about funding. Educate yourself before you cut and paste something you don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hartnell's Mane Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 Global Warming is fake. It's all about funding. Educate yourself before you cut and paste something you don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Global Warming is fake. It's all about funding. Educate yourself before you cut and paste something you don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 This is the stupidest thing I have ever read about this issue in 30 years on this planet. The nonsense kool-aid is very strong with this one. You do Tolkien a great disservice sporting that avatar and spouting this crap. I realize you're a little upset about the sheer stupidity of your Fox News heroes but you seriously need to get over it. What was the moon landing fake too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Read about this on the weekend - that bees are dying...and in China they are pollinating by hand... pollution is one of the suspects... The report lists a number of factors which may be coming together to cause the decline and they include: * Habitat degradation, including the loss of flowering plant species that provide food for bees; * Some insecticides, including the so-called "systemic" insecticides which can migrate to the entire plant as it grows and be taken in by bees in nectar and pollen; * Parasites and pests, such as the well-known Varroa mite; * Air pollution, which may be interfering with the ability of bees to find flowering plants and thus food – scents that could travel more than 800 metres in the 1800s now reach less than 200 metres from a plant. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/decline-of-honey-bees-now-a-global-phenomenon-says-united-nations-2237541.html "However, bee diversity has declined markedly in Europe, with many species disappearing from much of their former range, and some species going extinct. The UK alone has lost three species of native bumblebee, and six more are listed as endangered. Four bumblebee species have gone extinct from the whole of Europe, and there is good evidence for similar declines in North America and China. Pollinating animals fly in to our fields to pollinate crops from surrounding wild areas, but if there are no wild areas, or if the crops are doused in insecticides, then pollination will suffer and yields will decline. China’s hand-pollinated orchards Evidence from around the world points to falling and increasingly unpredictable yields of insect-pollinated crops, particularly in the areas with the most intensive farming. Where crops are grown in vast fields, there are not enough insects to go around. If insecticides are sprayed too frequently, then vital pollinators cannot survive. The most dramatic example comes from the apple and pear orchards of south west China, where wild bees have been eradicated by excessive pesticide use and a lack of natural habitat. " http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/5193 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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