Saudi preacher gets fine and short jail term for raping and killing daughter

[coleman26]

Then we do agree that human nature is also dependent on the environment. The natural environment around them decides their nature, and the majority of people in that nation were raised in a poisonous environment.

However, that's not why I was back, I actually wanted to pose another question.

How progressive are the youth in Saudi Arabia? You have to imagine that, with how far behind they are in the area of human rights, womens rights, so forth, that it might not even be this generation that liberates them. The young men of the nation were still raised in a world that was predominantly catered towards them. Progress would cripple their power, and they remain a very devoted to tradition and religion people. We assume that because we've progressed to a point where Women are 'equal' (not even a debate for right now) and the LGBT community is getting there that the paradigm shift in Arabia will meet our standards, but short of a revolutionary change in thinking, it's not impossible to consider that it may be another 50 or 60 years before the old ways die out. Although, they are rich, and that brings influence. This isn't like getting influence into war torn Africa or something. With money brings outsiders, and the outsiders who come matter. But business and political contacts who may not choose to blow large deals by mentioning how terrible their human rights standards are. I'm caught in a web of circular logic.

[Buddhas Hand]

Then we do agree that human nature is also dependent on the environment. The natural environment around them decides their nature, and the majority of people in that nation were raised in a poisonous environment.

However, that's not why I was back, I actually wanted to pose another question.

How progressive are the youth in Saudi Arabia? You have to imagine that, with how far behind they are in the area of human rights, womens rights, so forth, that it might not even be this generation that liberates them. The young men of the nation were still raised in a world that was predominantly catered towards them. Progress would cripple their power, and they remain a very devoted to tradition and religion people. We assume that because we've progressed to a point where Women are 'equal' (not even a debate for right now) and the LGBT community is getting there that the paradigm shift in Arabia will meet our standards, but short of a revolutionary change in thinking, it's not impossible to consider that it may be another 50 or 60 years before the old ways die out. Although, they are rich, and that brings influence. This isn't like getting influence into war torn Africa or something. With money brings outsiders, and the outsiders who come matter. But business and political contacts who may not choose to blow large deals by mentioning how terrible their human rights standards are. I'm caught in a web of circular logic.

[DeNiro]

No actually its the most fundamentalist. They have a lot of money from oil but they are extremely fundamentalist in religion and way of life.

This his has nothing to do with religion, I think this guy is just a monster, Plain and simple.

[taxi]

Maybe. But the Western influence is what you hope will eventually change them. What happens if that government collapses? The most powerful entity in the land will use it's influence to gain power, and that would undeniably be the religious contingent. Not that they don't have a stranglehold already, but with even less political influence shining through, they could manage to send the region back to the Jurassic period (see, because they're already in the Stone Ages. The joke isn't funny if you have to explain it)

You may be correct that they would collapse without Western influences, but there's almost a guarantee that things would get worse, because the fastest way to assume power is to do it ruthlessly.

[coleman26]

Well, I admitted they had a strangehold, but I'd like to believe that it has more of a chance of being influenced now than if a literal, 100% religious government was not only intact, but destined for a long term of power. And all that would inevitably do is draw the fundamentalists closer and drive progress out of the area. You'd have people fleeing under the cover of night.

[WHL rocks]

Actually it's not. It's one of the few middle eastern countries where women actually have rights.

So you're wrong there. And I didn't even mention religion.

[Salmonberries]

Now that we can run our cars on our own crap maybe it's time we stopped propping up these monsters.

Just a thought.

[Buddhas Hand]

The religious influence is already in power. The Saud family is totally linked with the religious Wahhabi movement. They both act in unison to support the other. The end result is that you have a religion that promotes the idea that the Saud family should be in power. The king of Saudi Arabia's official title is the "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques".

It works similarly to the way the old Serf system in England used to work. Where the royal family and the church were one and the same. The economic system is similar too. Oil revenues are paid directly to high ranking members of the Saud family, and then distributed down a chain, largely based on heriditery allegiances.

Saudi Arabis is already a fundamentalist state. They spend 100s of milliions of dollars every year exporting their religion. They are not only exporting their religious system, but their political one. The religious institutions are all based in Saudi Arabia, and the government uses them to maintain its total control.

Please keep in mind, I'm not talking about Islam, in general, but Wahhabism.

[لني]

I am unsure why people are surprised. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy and bases its system on an unwritten code from Sharia law with judges not following precedent. There is no Rule of Law as we understand it.

http://www.democracy...saudiarabia.php

[aGENT]

I'm having trouble thinking of what would be a suitable punishment for this sick monster. I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty, torture or "eye for an eye" but I somehow don't feel that simply locking this @#$%'er up for the rest of his miserable life is enough punishment for what he did.

I support progressive justice where we move beyond our animalistic, sometimes bloodthirsty and archaic desires for retribution but I just don't know what that would be in this case.

[Wetcoaster]

I'm having trouble thinking of what would be a suitable punishment for this sick monster. I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty, torture or "eye for an eye" but I somehow don't feel that simply locking this @#$%'er up for the rest of his miserable life is enough punishment for what he did.

I support progressive justice where we move beyond our animalistic, sometimes bloodthirsty and archaic desires for retribution but I just don't know what that would be in this case.

[taxi]

The reason that the King Henry VIII decided to form the Church of England Is that he got sick of the Catholic churches Efforts to rule the rulers combined with his desire to marry more than one woman who could provide him with an heir.

He did not need to use religion as a form of control in the same way as the saudi royal family do , rather he wanted to escape that control himself.

[hudson bay rules]

Good thing the preacher isn't in a position of influence.

[aGENT]

25 years to life in prison with a work detail of cleaning toilets and a steady diet of ham sandwiches????

[Buddhas Hand]

Off topic but...the English church most certainly remained as a means of controling the population for many many years after its formation. Any time you have religion mixed with the state, you will see a similar outcome.