Glenn Healy takes a jab at Luongo?

[poetica]

.....and why is the 2011-12 cup finals even worthy of discussion 2 years later. No, we didn't score enough to win nor did Lou et al play consistent enough to win against the Bruins.

[jag]

So you're also blaming Luongo for a meltdown against the sharks this year Im guessing? Please. Did Schneider save us from the Sharks? No. We would've got killed even if Schneider was in net; Same thing would've happened 2 years ago even with Schneids in net against the Bruins. No excuses. Our forwards looked like crap, were intimidated, and couldn't solve Thomas (who seemed unbeatable at the time). 8 goals? There isn't much budge when you have a team that is scared of you. Our players were frightened, and allowed Luongo to be shelled with shots. Boston was the bigger, better team that played ragdoll with us.

[jag]

Because this entire thread is about Healy's comments about it. Because it's a looooong summer and we got nothing else to talk about. Because it's what some of us want to talk about, so why do you care if you're not interested?

But, hey! I didn't think it would ever happen, but you finally said something I can agree with (the bolded part.)

As for the rest of your post, dude, we've had this argument in too many threads to count. THIS one is specifically about Luo and our SCF run. It has nothing to do with Cory nor does it impact in any way Cory's status as a good goalie or whether or not Cory's going to be our starter now. Why are you having so much trouble realizing that?

[smurf47]

Because this entire thread is about Healy's comments about it. Because it's a looooong summer and we got nothing else to talk about. Because it's what some of us want to talk about, so why do you care if you're not interested?

But, hey! I didn't think it would ever happen, but you finally said something I can agree with (the bolded part.)..

As for the rest of your post, dude, we've had this argument in too many threads to count. THIS one is specifically about Luo and our SCF run. It has nothing to do with Cory nor does it impact in any way Cory's status as a good goalie or whether or not Cory's going to be our starter now. Why are you having so much trouble realizing that?

[a Fool]

Healy is a blowhard.

I hope during the middle of one of his panel rants his head just explodes.

[poetica]

and the rest of my post supports Healy's view about Lou's ability. You have posted stats to support Lou;s career but ignored the obvious...Lou's GAA is rising and his SP is dropping....pretty much all one needs to know about his game, because these current stats are a measurement of his diminished ability.

[smurf47]

No, it doesn't because, yet again, you are spouting off your Luo hatred without any concern for the actual discussion everyone else is having.

Healy's comment was specifically about the SCF, which has F*** all to do with anything that has happened since then or Cory in any way.

And if you think Luo sucked so bad in 2010/11, remember that Cory had the same stats this year.

Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if you choose your nick because you really are blue due to a lack of oxygen. Maybe see a doctor?

[hudson bay rules]

Once more people take that series out of the context of style.

The Canucks used (still uses) a pressing, pinching D. My view is because we needed to augment our offence more than was healthy. (when it comes to best of 7) Others may have another explanation.

We were/are only able to do that because we had/have a "lights out" goaltender in Luongo.

Boston played a much more physical game than we were encountering in the West and they also played a system that "loved pressing teams" In the end we might have overcome them on sheer skill and willpower but not given the number of serious injuries we were carrying.

I doubt we will see as skill full a team reach the finals again for a long time..............especially not here in Vancouver.

[hudson bay rules]

dp

[poetica]

I actually said Lou had a very good 2010-11 season but regressed during the playoffs , possibly due to pressure. If your going to quote someone try and get your facts right, go back and read my post fatso. Just go cut and paste another long epistle to build up yur flagging ego.

[wallstreetamigo]

If you didn't get my drift, I meant lifetime stats not one playoff series.

2.52 and .919 in the regular season compared to

2.54 and .916 in the playoffs.

Martin Brodeur is 2.23 and .913 in regular season and

2.02 and .919 in the playoffs as an example.

Again, find me a tender that takes a step back in the playoffs in his career. Please do as I can't.

Goals are harder to get in the playoffs as one is typically playing against a top tier team. Not only that but games can go on and on and on due to a tie and that helps to improve goalie stats esp when teams generally try to be more conscious defensively in the playoffs.

[poetica]

If you didn't get my drift, I meant lifetime stats not one playoff series.

2.52 and .919 in the regular season compared to

2.54 and .916 in the playoffs.

Martin Brodeur is 2.23 and .913 in regular season and

2.02 and .919 in the playoffs as an example.

Again, find me a tender that takes a step back in the playoffs in his career. Please do as I can't.

Goals are harder to get in the playoffs as one is typically playing against a top tier team. Not only that but games can go on and on and on due to a tie and that helps to improve goalie stats esp when teams generally try to be more conscious defensively in the playoffs.

[TOMapleLaughs]

I know we like to put a microscope on our goaltenders in this town, but consider the source. (Gee, another no-clue TO homer?)

What's funny about Healy's comment and that as an NHL goaltender he wasn't even qualified to sniff Luongo's jockstrap. He did backstop the upset of the powerhouse '93 Pens, but that's it. Maybe if the Isles had some better goaltending they could've went further.

[poetica]

Are you saying that a .02 increase in GAA and a .03 increase in Sv% is a step back? If those are Luongo's numbers it is actually statistically insignificant and a very weak argument to lay all the blame at his door for the SCF loss.

How many more goals per game did the Canucks score during his regular season games vs his playoff games? Including these numbers (whatever they are as I have not figured them out and won't be) would at least add some context to the discussion.

[Edlerberry]

According to NHL.com's stats, in 2010/11 the Canucks had a regular season G/G average of 3.15, which was the highest in the entire league.

Our playoffs G/G average was 2.32, which was 14th among all playoff teams.

Our G/G average decreased 0.83 goal per game from the regular season to the playoffs.

Prior to the Finals, we scored 50 goals in 18 games, giving us a G/G average at that time of 2.78. Had we maintained that through the finals, our G/G average would have been 8th among all playoff teams.

[wallstreetamigo]

Did you not see /topic/345964-playoff-goaltending-pressure-cracks-even-the-best-of-them/page__st__30__p__11433640#entry11433640">my reply to your identical request in another thread? I found you 4, including 2 who have won a Stanley Cup.

And I gave you a list of a few others of varying career lengths with a lower playoff SV% (including Schneider.)

[wallstreetamigo]

Boston scored pretty much only 1 PPG all playoffs. So?

[We Are All Cynics]

Oh! Lack of confidence in Luo is why they only scored a single goal in the first game of the series, and needed almost the entire regulation period to do it.

And that's why they waited until the 3rd period to score their only goal in Game 5.

And why they failed to score at all, even though they were down no more than a single goal through half of the game in both Game 3 & 7.

And why our captain got 1 goal, 0 assists, and a -7 for that series. And why he failed to register even a single shot on goal in the first 3 games.

Damn, that Luo!

Yes damn that Lu lol! You can't have it both ways. You can't pick and choose when to throw the team under the bus. No doubt Lu was spectacular in Games 1,2 and 5. All the credit goes to him. But the same team you're criticizing from those wins played in front of him in Boston but this time he was atrocious. Simple as that. Go look at the Latest StraightJab parodying his inconsistency since it's accurate.You make my argument easier in this case. Thomas only had to be good until Lu fell apart which was every time in Boston.

When did "elite goaltender" become defined as a goalie who can single-handedly win a game? Seriously, I want to know because we're really having cap issues. I've never seen one of those, but if we can get one we could ditch our entire D squad because an "elite goalie" don't need no stinking D. We could save so much money!

I would certainly hope an elite goaltender can singlehandedly be credited for the win in a game. Many have. J.S. Giguere kept the Wild to only one goal total in the Western Conference Final sweep a few years back. Despite losing the Cup that year it was his name on the Conn Smythe trophy. If Lu had been consistent through four rounds then he probably would've had it too despite a Cup loss. Besides elite goaltenders can actually win Vezina trophies. You know the one Luongo never has. It's also an individual trophy, no D names anywhere to be found. It goes to those who are individually and consistently the best. Something Lu has trouble with and why he can only say it was great to be nominated and settle for being second or third best. But as we saw that year being second best didn't win the Cup.

So, basically, you'd only defend him if he won. Since his team couldn't score, that means you think he had to get a shutout or he sucked. Well, he could let in 2, but only in the single SCF game his team scored 3. Otherwise, he sucked.

(BTW, we managed to win 2 games earlier in the playoffs in which Luo let in 3, once against SJ and once against Chicago. Since Luo only let in 3 in Game 7, if we could have done that again we would have won the Cup. If we had, the team would have still won 1 fewer game in which Luo let in 3 than Luo had shutouts.)

No, I'd defend him, win or lose, if he was consistent. But I can't when he breaks under the pressure and gives up 8, 7 or 6 goals in some games or coughs up a number of goals in the same span of minutes. 3 spectacular wins including 2 shutouts balanced by 3 horrible losses where he's pulled twice and lets in 8 for one full game. I'd agree with you about shutting the door for a couple of periods in two of those games but then it makes him look even more pathetic for the losses. I'm not that cruel.

We were the best team in the league that year in the regular season. But, you seem to have forgotten what that playoff run was like. Our guys were declining as it went along, picking up aches and pains and injuries. (By the end poor Kesler was held together with stick tape and good wishes.) By the time we got to the SCF they were not the same team.

Agreed but Luongo was the difference maker. It was his Cup to win or lose. I had believed he was more than capable to steal the games to win it. He proved me wrong. It seems management felt the same way as did a significant portion of the fanbase who'd boo him the start of next season when his inconsistent nature became tiresome.

It might make you feel better in your Luo hatred to pretend that the Canucks were the best at everything and that he just sucked and lost it, but it's not true. The truth is that our goals for per game average was the 14th lowest. (Even before the Finals, our G/G would have only put us 8th among playoff teams, which would still have been below 2 of the teams we knocked out and only .03 above the third.) To put that into perspective, Tampa Bay scored 1 more goal than we did in 7 fewer games. And SJ scored only 7 fewer goals in 7 fewer games (and we beat them in 5 games in the Conference Final!)

I don't hate Lu. I just have no confidence in him anymore. There's a difference. I'm tired of the Jekyll and Hyde performance in wondering which goaltender he'll show up as for a game.

You also seem to forget that we relied rather heavily on the PP to score. We scored 19 PP goals (or 0.76 per game), more than anyone else in the playoffs. In fact, almost twice as many as Boston who had only 10 PP goals. We were not as strong 5-on-5, where we scored only 37 goals (or 1.44 per game) during the entire playoffs. Boston scored 60 5-on-5 goals in the same number of games.

Worse still, our PP goal scoring dried up in the Finals. Despite the often suspect reffing, we still had 33 power play opportunities in the Finals. We only scored twice. That's a PP of 6.06%. When PP goals made up 33% of our scoring in the playoffs, that huge drop off in PP% was a major problem.

Didn't forget that. No question the powerplay dried up. But guess who the best penalty killer has to be on any team. The goaltender. Again Thomas outdueled Luongo.

Oh good lord, you're one of those!

Where did I say anything about Cory? What does he have to do with why we lost the Cup?

Actually, never mind. We'll be having a very similar discussion at some point in the not so distant future about Cory when he fails to be perfect in a few games and that makes you lose confidence in him too.

[hudson bay rules]

Did you not see /topic/345964-playoff-goaltending-pressure-cracks-even-the-best-of-them/page__st__30__p__11433640#entry11433640">my reply to your identical request in another thread? I found you 4, including 2 who have won a Stanley Cup.

And I gave you a list of a few others of varying career lengths with a lower playoff SV% (including Schneider.)

[wallstreetamigo]

so you pulled out a rookie with less than 10 playoff games.

well done.