ronthecivil Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 are you kidding me? So bargaining for the good of the kids is now a bad thing? you must be a treat at birthday parties 275 million dollars (a year) is a lot of money. In the economic reality we live in (and just wait it's going to get worse) these are the kinds of sacrafices people are going to have to learn to deal with. Unless there's a magic source of money available it doesn't matter if it's in the name of the children, making teachers lives easier, or any other reason you can come up with. If the money isn't there, the money isn't there. My sociability at birthday parties is irrelevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 You're kidding yourself if you think throwing more money at the status quo is for the good of anybody. No, where they are really kidding themselves is if they think the money exists. Where they are REALLY kidding themselves is if they think it might be better in the future. Make no mistakes, higher taxes and lower services are our future. Not the other way around bill of goods people have gotten used to completely through the ponzi schemes of deficit financing and massive immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 No, where they are really kidding themselves is if they think the money exists. Where they are REALLY kidding themselves is if they think it might be better in the future. Which is why it makes sense to re-do the entire educations system to make it leaner and meaner. I'm sorry if that doesn't sit well with "retired" teachers and administrative waste. We need less money going to management and bad teachers and more to kids and good teachers. Do more with less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 You're kidding yourself if you think throwing more money at the status quo is for the good of anybody. Your narrative that the BCTF is just after money is ridiculous. Class size, composition, etc those things cost money, but that's the fight. Not just more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Your narrative that the BCTF is just after money is ridiculous. Class size, composition, etc those things cost money, but that's the fight. Not just more money. Why is irrelevant. If it costs more money, it costs more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Which is why it makes sense to re-do the entire educations system to make it leaner and meaner. I'm sorry if that doesn't sit well with "retired" teachers and administrative waste. We need less money going to management and bad teachers and more to kids and good teachers. Do more with less. Just wait until people in the public sector get to renegotiate their pensions after the government effectively declares bankruptcy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Pipelines through the schools...? Frankly I don't really blame the Liberals. Yes it's completely underhanded @#$% what they're doing but if I was in charge I'd probably do the same thing given budget realities until the BCTF sucks it up and agrees to actually rebuild the system from the ground up. The Liberals are simply trying to stop/slow down the bleeding. But the top-weighted with older members BCTF (and the same older, folks with all those cushy, expensive bureaucratic/district jobs that should be slashed) will never agree to system reform that screws them for the benefit of our kids and young teachers. The Libs are being giant a-holes about it but it's the BCTF that's really holding up true reform and a better system. Pipeline in Northern B.C. There's a source of money we could use to fund B.C education...maybe? I was just playing devil's advocate there. Why is irrelevant. If it costs more money, it costs more money. An unfortunate truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Why is irrelevant. If it costs more money, it costs more money. Cause everything costs money. If we take your position, we don't spend money on anything because we have none. Which of course is bs as I've pointed out to you dozens of time--the government, of any stripe, spends money all the time. You guys are calling for essentially a revolution which is great in theory, but that's not reality. Funny seeing as you guys are the ones who harp on me about that lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Your narrative that the BCTF is just after money is ridiculous. Class size, composition, etc those things cost money, but that's the fight. Not just more money. That's not even remotely my narrative. I'm saying the BCTF and the vast school board administration are protecting it's own interests ahead of students, young teachers or class size and composition. If they actually gave a rats-arse about any of that they'd be going full bore at an overhaul of the system rather than whining, blaiming and demanding money the government doesn't have. Their failure to either recognize or admit to their own roles in the systems continuing failure and slide in to rubbish is my narrative. They continue to do little more than politic and put on a show for their own benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That's not even remotely my narrative. I'm saying the BCTF and the vast school board administration are protecting it's own interests ahead of students, young teachers or class size and composition. If they actually gave a rats-arse about any of that they'd be going full bore at an overhaul of the system rather than whining, blaiming and demanding money the government doesn't have. Their failure to either recognize or admit to their own roles in the systems continuing failure and slide in to rubbish is my narrative. They continue to do little more than politic and put on a show for their own benefit. Again, you're calling for revolution within the system--good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Cause everything costs money. If we take your position, we don't spend money on anything because we have none. Which of course is bs as I've pointed out to you dozens of time--the government, of any stripe, spends money all the time. You guys are calling for essentially a revolution which is great in theory, but that's not reality. Funny seeing as you guys are the ones who harp on me about that lol. Sure the government spends money all the time. My point is that everyone, everywhere, is going to have to learn to get by with less simply based on our changing demographics (less people paying and more people needing service) which is going to put the squeeze on everything. So while it does spend money the new reality is that anytime we can pinch some pennies anywhere, it's going to be done, no matter how unpopular it is. So unless people are ready for some serious rethinking of how things are done, it's going to be pretty ugly out there. Keep in mind as the second biggest budget the province has there's not exactly a lot of other areas one could shift money from in order to redesignate it to education just due to it's amazing size. If it makes you feel better, you can look forward to the health and education eating up the Lion's share of budgets moving forward. It still won't be enough though. Much more effecient systems or a massive increase in revenues are the only way to keep anything resembling our services in the way you know them even close to what they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Again, you're calling for revolution within the system--good luck with that. Then expect more of the same from the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Again, you're calling for revolution within the system--good luck with that. As it gradually goes bankrupt revolution is inevitable. Oh, and the longer it's delayed the more painful it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Then expect more of the same from the government. No, expect much worse actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 No, expect much worse actually. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As it gradually goes bankrupt revolution is inevitable. Oh, and the longer it's delayed the more painful it will be. Pretty much my point. I'm suggesting we get ahead of it now. Do any of you arguing with Ron and I actually think the BCTF leadership, all those older teachers and all that wasteful administrative staff don't know exactly that? That it's going to get worse and worse until the system collapses and revolution is forced. Meanwhile...they're making sure they get as much out of the current cash cow system as they can. They're screwing students, young teachers and taxpayers and they damn well know it. But they're making sure they get theirs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I can't believe you two are actually arguing for révolution yet I'm the one disconnected from reality lol. What politician or group is going to willingly do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I can't believe you two are actually arguing for révolution yet I'm the one disconnected from reality lol. What politician or group is going to willingly do that? It's not up to the government. Frankly I think any party would jump on board if the BCTF suddenly said "let's fix this and create a new, modern system that utilizes dollars more efficiently for the betterment of the students and taxpayers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I can't believe you two are actually arguing for révolution yet I'm the one disconnected from reality lol. What politician or group is going to willingly do that? Inevitably they will be forced to. Ask the greeks (or any of the many countries that put off dealing with their unsustainable financial models until the #### hit the fan) if you can just live in financial fantasy land forever..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Pretty much my point. I'm suggesting we get ahead of it now. Do any of you arguing with Ron and I actually think the BCTF leadership, all those older teachers and all that wasteful administrative staff don't know exactly that? That it's going to get worse and worse until the system collapses and revolution is forced. Meanwhile...they're making sure they get as much out of the current cash cow system as they can. They're screwing students, young teachers and taxpayers and they damn well know it. But they're making sure they get theirs! You do realise that it's in effective a scale model of how all of Canada is actually operating right now don't you? As any young person/taxpayer how their forward looking prognossis is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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