Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/sp...sist-panic.html There's a certain way we're used to seeing John Tortorella. When things go badly, he's defiant. The walls may be closing in, but he's going to punch through them, dammit. We've all seen it, we all know it. That's why it was so stunning to see him following Monday night's epicVancouver meltdown. After the Canucks allowed seven goals in the final 20 minutes to blow a 3-0 lead against the Islanders, the reactions spanned the emotional spectrum. Ryan Kesler was stunned, Kevin Bieksa angry, Eddie Lack crushed. Tortorella looked... beaten. I've never seen that before. Tortorella recovered from the "kick in the teeth," as he called it, to regroup and prepare his team for Wednesday's game in Winnipeg. But it remains an unsettling time in Vancouver. Paul Maurice has talked before about how he knew, in the 2001-02 season, that if the Hurricanes didn't break a four-game losing streak on December 12 against Florida, he was gone. Carolina won 3-2, saving Maurice's job, and eventually went to the Stanley Cup final. Being past the trade deadline, players don't have to worry as much. But there is uncertainty across the rest of the organization. Prior to the trade deadline, owner Francesco Aquilini met at least twice with GM Mike Gillis to discuss the latter's plans. According to several sources, those plans were approved -- although the Roberto Luongo trade later dropped into their lap. It remains unconfirmed, but it is also believed the Aquilini family had some kind of pow-wow last week to discuss the Canucks' current spiral. If they had lost last Saturday against Calgary, there was a belief (which I shared) that someone's head was going to roll. Obviously, that didn't happen. And, since nothing occurred Tuesday -- and the look on Tortorella's face made it seem like he thought it was possible -- you have to wonder if the Aquilinis will let the rest of the season play out. And that's the right move, even if the fan base hates it. Here's why: Last summer, ownership wasn't interested in writing a $30-million cheque for a compliance buyout of Luongo's contract. I don't have a problem with this -- that's a gigantic amount to spend no matter how wealthy you are. But how much is it going to cost to get rid of everyone now? Tortorella ($8 million) and Gillis (at least the same) each have four years remaining on their contracts. The Luongo deal saved the organization approximately $28 million in cash, but are you immediately going to start eating half of it? If I was advising the Aquilinis, I'd be asking them the following questions: If you supported Gillis's deadline plan, is it really a good idea to fire him a week later? Isn't it worth seeing who your most competitive people and players are during this stretch to help make the best long-term assessments about your organization? And the biggest, most important ones: How bad are we, really? Are we playing the right way to maximize our talent? Did the Sedins, almost point-a-game players last season, simply fall off a cliff? If, for example, they changed coaches right now, is there someone who can make an appreciable difference? Ownership is nervous. I get that. The Heritage Classic was a financial disappointment, and Canucks fans have a history of staying away when things go bad. Ticket renewals were delayed and there is concern revenue will drop if no human sacrifice is offered. What's worse is firing someone just for the show of it. Bad, panic decisions lead to worse, panic decisions. Then your ticket renewals are more than a one-season problem. 5 CanuckThoughts 1. Canuck rumour I: That the Aquilini family forced Tortorella on Gillis. Verdict: Skeptical. The choice came down to Tortorella or John Stevens, whose name you are going to hear a lot for any openings this summer. I believe there was an agreement to go with the more experienced candidate. 2. Canuck rumour II: That ownership blocked Gillis from trading Ryan Kesler at the deadline. Verdict: Don't believe it. As mentioned above, Aquilini was well aware of the GM's plans. It would not be the least bit surprising if an interested team or two told Vancouver it could be involved at the draft, but not now, for cap reasons. Also, when Kesler said no to Columbus, the Rangers and Philadelphia, the Canucks may have pulled back because they didn't like the situation. 3. It is believed the six teams to which Kesler would accept a deal at the deadline were Anaheim, Chicago, Colorado, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay. Only two -- the Ducks and Penguins -- were really in it, though. 4. Canuck rumour III: That ownership is courting Trevor Linden. Verdict: God only knows. We interviewed Linden for our piece on the 1994 Canucks, and off-handedly asked him about being a GM. He didn't seem that interested. 5. During the Alain Vigneault era, reporters would constantly ask why the Sedins didn't get more minutes. From 2007-08 to 2012-13, Daniel ranged from 19:01-19:49 per game. Henrik was above 20:00 for the first three of those seasons, then 19:16, 19:05 and 19:21 the last three. Vigneault (and the organization) would say their research indicated those were the twins' optimal times. Daniel is now at 21:14, Henrik at 21:01. Would they be more effective at their previous workloads? I agree with him, the Canucks have been through a lot this year including injuries to all of our top line members. But I really think our struggles has to do a lot more with confidence then actual lack of skill. In January we had a road trip that kind of set the tone for the rest of the season. In it we lost our starting goal tender, top line center and sparkplug for the second line to injuries. On top of that we lost a game 9-2 and got shutout the other two games. Our record since that road trip 5-12-1 with 3 wins coming from Calgary and Edmonton games. I think until the team recovers mentally, there is little chance for the team to succeed. Edited for grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have literally no interest in what Elliotte Friedman has to say about this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Certainly adds some food for thought to what is going on. Thanks for posting. Nice to see something worth reading rather than the usual drab from Botchford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 #5 is particularly damning. For Tortorella to play the Sedins 21 + minutes in a compressed Olympics schedule just shows how short-sighted and desperate for wins NOW he is, at the expense of the bigger picture. Someone should tell him that the season isn't like the Super Bowl. You have to view it, and plan for it, long-term. As for the other rumours, unless Friedmann has legit insider news, his speculation isn't any better than those saying Aquillini IS interfering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have literally no interest in what Elliotte Friedman has to say about this team. I'm not sure why you'd bother to come into a thread that had his name clearly in the title then. I posted a bit of the article in the Kesler still a Canuck thread, and there's opinions at either end for both Torts and Gillis. Torts wasn't my ideal choice to begin with but I've been ok with Gillis. He's had times where he really has looked like our best GM ever and even when he wasn't he was trying to make logical moves without selling off the team. Torts on the other hand hasn't felt like the best coach we've ever had, just a guy with some good ideas trying to find a way to get wins with the players he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 5. During the Alain Vigneault era, reporters would constantly ask why the Sedins didn't get more minutes. From 2007-08 to 2012-13, Daniel ranged from 19:01-19:49 per game. Henrik was above 20:00 for the first three of those seasons, then 19:16, 19:05 and 19:21 the last three. Vigneault (and the organization) would say their research indicated those were the twins' optimal times. Daniel is now at 21:14, Henrik at 21:01. Would they be more effective at their previous workloads? I'm sorry, but if supposed elite players with some of the best conditioning in the league can't handle an average increase of roughly 2 minutes per game, then they shouldn't be dubbed elite players. IMO it's not the amount of ice time the Sedins get, it's how they're deployed for the minutes they do get. They've been taken from sheltered offensive minutes and situations, and thrust into tough, defensive minutes. Let's not fool ourselves, for every minute the Sedin's are on the penalty kill is one fewer minute that they can be on the ice in an offensive capacity to help the Canucks do what they do, and that's win (or used to be). Not every player is suited to be a two way dynamo, Datsyuk can do it, Kesler and Toews, as well as Bergeron, among others. The Sedin's aren't suited to that style of play. IMO the lack of offense dating back to last season was a result of the roster becoming stale. Gillis has not done enough to keep the roster fresh, and this was further exacerbated by Tortorella's incredible mismanagement of the Sedins. Just because your kids want to jump off a cliff doesn't mean you cave in and let them. The coach is the coach, and he tells the players how he wants them to play, end of story. As I said in a previous post, I fully expect Gillis to be here for at least 7-10 years. He's going to get the chance to have his core take over the team and have their time in the spotlight. Tortorella will get one more chance to re think his deployment of the personnel provided to him. Expect Gillis to make some significant roster changes at the draft and target some UFA talent. IF things get off to a rocky start next year, I don't think that Tortorella will last past the 15-20 game mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not sure why you'd bother to come into a thread that had his name clearly in the title then. I posted a bit of the article in the Kesler still a Canuck thread, and there's opinions at either end for both Torts and Gillis. Torts wasn't my ideal choice to begin with but I've been ok with Gillis. He's had times where he really has looked like our best GM ever and even when he wasn't he was trying to make logical moves without selling off the team. Torts on the other hand hasn't felt like the best coach we've ever had, just a guy with some good ideas trying to find a way to get wins with the players he has. his opinion MUST BE HEARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Friedman is one of the few in sports media that isn't a complete d-bag hack. He's actually a reasonable human who happens to work in sport media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not sure why you'd bother to come into a thread that had his name clearly in the title then. My thoughts exactly. It's the same as the hundreds of posters ragging on Eklund (or however you spell his name). I ignore those threads now, after long ago discovering he's desperate for link-bait, and am grateful for the thread-starters for putting his name in them to save me the time. Friedman is certainly a better panelist than a lot of the bores and intellectual lightweights on the "Hot Stove". (That used to be a good segment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 My thoughts exactly. It's the same as the hundreds of posters ragging on Eklund (or however you spell his name). I ignore those threads now, after long ago discovering he's desperate for link-bait, and am grateful for the thread-starters for putting his name in them to save me the time. Friedman is certainly a better panelist than a lot of the bores and intellectual lightweights on the "Hot Stove". (That used to be a good segment.) Frankly he's the only person worth listening to on that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm sorry, but if supposed elite players with some of the best conditioning in the league can't handle an average increase of roughly 2 minutes per game, then they shouldn't be dubbed elite players. IMO it's not the amount of ice time the Sedins get, it's how they're deployed for the minutes they do get. They've been taken from sheltered offensive minutes and situations, and thrust into tough, defensive minutes. Let's not fool ourselves, for every minute the Sedin's are on the penalty kill is one fewer minute that they can be on the ice in an offensive capacity to help the Canucks do what they do, and that's win (or used to be). Not every player is suited to be a two way dynamo, Datsyuk can do it, Kesler and Toews, as well as Bergeron, among others. The Sedin's aren't suited to that style of play. IMO the lack of offense dating back to last season was a result of the roster becoming stale. Gillis has not done enough to keep the roster fresh, and this was further exacerbated by Tortorella's incredible mismanagement of the Sedins. Just because your kids want to jump off a cliff doesn't mean you cave in and let them. The coach is the coach, and he tells the players how he wants them to play, end of story. As I said in a previous post, I fully expect Gillis to be here for at least 7-10 years. He's going to get the chance to have his core take over the team and have their time in the spotlight. Tortorella will get one more chance to re think his deployment of the personnel provided to him. Expect Gillis to make some significant roster changes at the draft and target some UFA talent. IF things get off to a rocky start next year, I don't think that Tortorella will last past the 15-20 game mark. If that's so, then why don't the considerably younger Stamkos or Tavares e.g. get even more, say 26-27 minutes? Surely they're in better shape, better skaters to get away from the hitting, etc. There's a breaking point with minutes in hockey or basketball. That's why minutes in the latter are also carefully monitored, and it's one reason why Greg Popovich is widely considered one of the top three coaches -- he cuts back on his stars' minutes, especially in the most feasible situations i.e., blowouts, easier opponents, back-to-backs. I agree with your other comments that he uses them incorrectly, though. Tortorella isn't the most progressive coach in the league, to put it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 If that's so, then why don't the considerably younger Stamkos or Tavares e.g. get even more, say 26-27 minutes? Surely they're in better shape, better skaters to get away from the hitting, etc. There's a breaking point with minutes in hockey or basketball. That's why minutes in the latter are also carefully monitored, and it's one reason why Greg Popovich is widely considered one of the top three coaches -- he cuts back on his stars' minutes, especially in the most feasible situations i.e., blowouts, easier opponents, back-to-backs. I agree with your other comments that he uses them incorrectly, though. Tortorella isn't the most progressive coach in the league, to put it mildly. I can tell you didn't read the rest of his post. He went onto say every minute the sedins are playing now is that much tougher than it used to be and the sedins aren't built for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not sure why you'd bother to come into a thread that had his name clearly in the title then.Since you've read a lot of my posts over the years, you should damn well know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I can tell you didn't read the rest of his post. He went onto say every minute the sedins are playing now is that much tougher than it used to be and the sedins aren't built for this. And I see that it contradicts his opening, which I highlighted. Did he not say that the Sedins, as highly-conditioned athletes, should be able to handle the extra few minutes? I also agreed with him that Tortorella mismanages the minutes they DO get. But even if they're getting more sheltered minutes, as they were under the astute AV, there is still a maximum amount of TOI that will result in diminishing returns if exceeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Since you've read a lot of my posts over the years, you should damn well know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have literally no interest in what Elliotte Friedman has to say about this team. . this who cares what eastern writers have to say..do something to make this team competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 . this who cares what eastern writers have to say..do something to make this team competitive. Guess your a fan of Botchford and Gallager stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Frankly he's the only person worth listening to on that show. Agree 100% .. he is the ONLY one who should have a job after this year .. a TV job that is, that's shown outside Ontario .. keep that clown act local, would you please CBC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 And I see that it contradicts his opening, which I highlighted. Did he not say that the Sedins, as highly-conditioned athletes, should be able to handle the extra few minutes? I also agreed with him that Tortorella mismanages the minutes they DO get. But even if they're getting more sheltered minutes, as they were under the astute AV, there is still a maximum amount of TOI that will result in diminishing returns if exceeded. There's a difference between what someone can handle and what is optimal don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsPajamas Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What did Freidman do to piss people off? I've always considered him one of the more reasonable and reliable CBCers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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