JeremyCuddles Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I understand what you're saying and agree with what you're saying but I don't think anyone should ever make a roster with the intent of not winning the cup. I agree with this, but we have what looks to be a depleted core. I wouldn't mind moving some out to fill our cupboards. If we keep moving prospects we'll be a middle of the pack team for years. One and done so to speak. Hate to say but top 10 pick for 2-3 years and some lucky UFA's and we can be contenders again, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanucklehead10 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Despite the love of this there is no way the Flyers would do that. 1. Hansen is an UFA. 2. Hansen is a fringe 2/3 liner on the Canucks. Philadelphia has a 4th line player with more points than Hansen and 5 less games. Where does he fit in the potential Flyers line up after this move? Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek Lecavalier - Kesler - Simmonds Laughton/Raffl - Couturier - Read Rinaldo - Vacant/Laughton/Hall/FA - Hansen 3. Even if Hansen had a bigger role what is his value in this trade? He alone could not get a 1st round pick or Morin or Schenn. 4. Since the trade deadline Kesler has scored 3 goals and 0 assists and got himself hurt again. (not exactly rising his trade value any). Schenn (who the Flyers were already being stingy on moving) has been taken off wing and granted his spot as the regular 2C. And despite being inconsistent has shown flashes of his projected potential. If the Flyers were already reluctant to give up Schenn even for Kesler why would they suddenly give him up now along with Morin (their best defensive prospect and #11 pick last year) and 1st? 5. Laughton is not an offensive prospect he is a defense minded prospect. His OHL season makes it more likely that his offensive game may develop but even so he is still projected as a guy who could be 30 points lower than Schenn's max. Canucks fans may love it but pitch it to any Flyer fan and it's an instant not even thinking about it no. DET trade is more realistic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I'll give you a new look Sedin + Sedin + Garrison for Weber + Forsberg Kesler + Tanev + 1st for Tavares Edler for Yakupov Burrows + Corrado for Subban (RFA) who said "i wont sign with MTL, i want to play in vancouver" Sign Callahan and Cammilleri and then I woke up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Forgot to put Matthias in the OP just noticed...edited it and gives us excess forwards. Maybe start Schroeder off in the minors as a last stint or trade his rights potentially is that isn't a viable option? Have lots of centres and he looks like the odd man out thought I really like his play. Buying out Booth is another option but doubt management would do it wasting that money when they can keep him and let him walk after next season. Plus he'd be a great depth player to have incase of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Despite the love of this there is no way the Flyers would do that. 1. Hansen is an UFA. 2. Hansen is a fringe 2/3 liner on the Canucks. Philadelphia has a 4th line player with more points than Hansen and 5 less games. Where does he fit in the potential Flyers line up after this move? Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek Lecavalier - Kesler - Simmonds Laughton/Raffl - Couturier - Read Rinaldo - Vacant/Laughton/Hall/FA - Hansen 3. Even if Hansen had a bigger role what is his value in this trade? He alone could not get a 1st round pick or Morin or Schenn. 4. Since the trade deadline Kesler has scored 3 goals and 0 assists and got himself hurt again. (not exactly rising his trade value any). Schenn (who the Flyers were already being stingy on moving) has been taken off wing and granted his spot as the regular 2C. And despite being inconsistent has shown flashes of his projected potential. If the Flyers were already reluctant to give up Schenn even for Kesler why would they suddenly give him up now along with Morin (their best defensive prospect and #11 pick last year) and 1st? 5. Laughton is not an offensive prospect he is a defense minded prospect. His OHL season makes it more likely that his offensive game may develop but even so he is still projected as a guy who could be 30 points lower than Schenn's max. Canucks fans may love it but pitch it to any Flyer fan and it's an instant not even thinking about it no. DET trade is more realistic though. Ufa?? Sure but not for a few years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euphoria/ Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 “I don’t envision us trading away players who could be part of our future,” general manager Ken Holland said. “Those are the players other teams will be asking about.”From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140204/SPORTS0103/302040120#ixzz2xmWfU2fA I highly doubt Holland will trade any of their youth. I think Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Mantha, Dekeyser, Sproul and Oullet are untouchable, unless they get an outrageous offer. On top of that, Detroit has almost always built from within the organization, impact players on Detroit are almost always homegrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Ufa?? Sure but not for a few years.... On double back research you are right. I had gone by nhlnumbers.com http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VAN?year=2014 They must have missed his extension. Still even so. Why is Philly giving away all of that for a 4th liner and Kesler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 “I don’t envision us trading away players who could be part of our future,” general manager Ken Holland said. “Those are the players other teams will be asking about.”From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140204/SPORTS0103/302040120#ixzz2xmWfU2fA I highly doubt Holland will trade any of their youth. I think Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Mantha, Dekeyser, Sproul and Oullet are untouchable, unless they get an outrageous offer. On top of that, Detroit has almost always built from within the organization, impact players on Detroit are almost always homegrown. True as well and I know that as one of the best and truest things cause that's what I've followed my entire life with the Wings. But as for Tatar and Sproul, they don't seem like untouchables to me at least that's the vibe I'm getting. Only young untouchables at the moment are Nyquist + Dekeseyer, and somewhat Sheahan and Ouellet. Others can be had. How can I say this? Well when the news broke Wings offered Nucks for Edler in the off-season, MG asked for too much. He wanted 1 or 2 extra pieces which Holland wouldn't obviously do so if MG gets down and wants 3 pieces like offered (2nd, minors prospect, NHL ready prospect), it'd be fair enough for Ken to pull the trigger. Just my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 On double back research you are right. I had gone by nhlnumbers.com http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VAN?year=2014 They must have missed his extension. Still even so. Why is Philly giving away all of that for a 4th liner and Kesler? On double back research you are right. I had gone by nhlnumbers.com http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/VAN?year=2014 They must have missed his extension. Still even so. Why is Philly giving away all of that for a 4th liner and Kesler? First why aren't you using capgeek? Second 11(torts),10(short season),16 goals for this and last 2years..... 4th liner?hmmm... No... Great on PK and speedy.... Much more a good 3rd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 First why aren't you using capgeek? Second 11(torts),10(short season),16 goals for this and last 2years..... 4th liner?hmmm... No... Great on PK and speedy.... Much more a good 3rd liner. I have used both as I didn't realize one was so inaccurate. So whose job is Hansen stealing on the Flyers? Flyers RW are Voracek, Simmonds, and Read. Read has 20 goals this season as a 3rd line player. On pace for 22 last year in 82 and 24 the season before in his rookie year. Raffle is the Flyers 4th line player who has more points than Hansen (21 to 20). Raffl plays with worse players and gets 3 minutes less per game and has played fewer games. And is a natural LW. So why is Philadelphia giving up Schenn, Morin, and a 1st in this trade? What about Hansen makes them so desperate that they throw in the extra 1st or Morin? How does Hansen make Philly such a better team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 So why is Philadelphia giving up Schenn, Morin, and a 1st in this trade? What about Hansen makes them so desperate that they throw in the extra 1st or Morin? How does Hansen make Philly such a better team? Why are they giving Schenn, Morin, 1st? Cause that's the price for Kes give and take and Hansen can be a solid depth player if injuries occur (look at Lecavalier, bottom 6 players, can easily take Rinaldo's spots and bring more to the table minus fighting). Philly themselves set the bar for Kes's value when they traded away Richards. They got B.Schenn(top prospect), Simmonds(NHL ready youngster), and a 2nd(early pick). Kesler is better than Richards right now than the time Richards was traded ignoring the age which doesn't really matter here as Philly wants to win now and Kes is in his prime. Due to that, Kes can get a similar return in Schenn (NHL ready youngster), Molin(top prospect), 1st (early pick) plus adding on a versatile and efficient player in Hansen is fair enough imo. Even from the Olympics, it's crystal clear how good Kesler can be given the right teammates and Philly can provide much better linemates than we currently have which will increase his production. He was US's undisputed 1st line centre and was on fire. Safe to say that was the turning point in solidifying his true value and especially with teams bidding trying to one up each other to get him, this seems like a possible return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Why are they giving Schenn, Morin, 1st? Cause that's the price for Kes give and take and Hansen can be a solid depth player if injuries occur (look at Lecavalier, bottom 6 players, can easily take Rinaldo's spots and bring more to the table minus fighting). Philly themselves set the bar for Kes's value when they traded away Richards. They got B.Schenn(top prospect), Simmonds(NHL ready youngster), and a 2nd(early pick). Kesler is better than Richards right now than the time Richards was traded ignoring the age which doesn't really matter here as Philly wants to win now and Kes is in his prime. Due to that, Kes can get a similar return in Schenn (NHL ready youngster), Molin(top prospect), 1st (early pick) plus adding on a versatile and efficient player in Hansen is fair enough imo. Even from the Olympics, it's crystal clear how good Kesler can be given the right teammates and Philly can provide much better linemates than we currently have which will increase his production. He was US's undisputed 1st line centre and was on fire. Safe to say that was the turning point in solidifying his true value and especially with teams bidding trying to one up each other to get him, this seems like a possible return. I would agree with you if this was 3 years ago. Why do you think Richards or Keslers value is anywhere near the same as it was back then? 3 years ago Ryan Kesler had 41 goals and a Selke. 3 Years ago Richards was good for 60-80 points around 30 goals and was a nominee for Selke's. Now add 3 years to these guys ages and a massive decline in production. Why do they keep similar values? And as far as value goes. Schenn was a top tier prospect at the time but Simmonds was a 3rd line player with reduced ice time coming off 14 goals and 30 points. His development was pure scouting. If the Kings had any idea he would be the player he is today they would not have given him up in that trade and of course the 2nd. Even with Carter Philly wanted Brassard but the BJs pushed Voracek and eventually Philly accepted. Voracek looked more like a bust at the time but turned it around in Philly. The point being these weren't lopsided looking trades at the time. Philly took players that fans overlooked and they exceeded what was expected. I don't even know why the Olympics are relevant. Kesler scored 4 points in 6 games and had 1 goal while with the best players on team USA. Outside of the Olympics being a different beast it wasn't even an impressive showing. He only scored in 2 games in the Olympics. In a 7-1 win against Slovakia and in a 5-2 win against the Czech. Kesler was scoreless against Canada, Finland, Russia, and even Slovenia. Yet he was the #1 center... why is this so thrilling? If that was the "price" for Kesler the answer would be easy. Keep him. Philly doesn't need his subpar offensive production or his defense with Couturier on the team. No way philly gives up 2 legit NHL caliber prospects plus an elite prospect who is already as offensively productive as Kesler with a much higher potential ceiling. It just doesn't make sense. Kesler declines since the deadline, Schenn and Philadelphia both emerge as a much more dangerous team since the deadline. And despite teams not willing to offer all that much for Kesler suddenly his value spikes that much higher and teams are willing to give that much more? It just doesn't make sense. No team is gonna give 2 of their best young players and a 1st for him. (Also Lecavalier won't stay if he is only restricted entirely to line 4. Plus the Flyers are a team that wins games on special teams with a strong PK and strong PP. They give and draw a lot of penalties. Rinaldo himself draws a massive amount of penalties. It is more valuable to the team than Lecavalier on line 4.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks155 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 If Edler is going to Detroit, Nyquist and Mantha are coming back.HAHAHAHA. You couldn't even get 1 of them straight up for Kesler... keep dreaming. Also, Nyquist just scored a beauty against the Bruins 2day after dancing around the Big Z. And Mantha, well, you saw him @ the WJ's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Good job Florence for actually taking the Flyers needs and lineup into account. Most of the threads on here have more to do with improving Vancouver and no research is done into how it affects the other team. Lots of threads where people throw in players like Schroeder despite there being like 5 centers better than him on that team. In most proposals I see, people create a projected lineup for the Canucks and yet do not do so for the other team. With a little bit of looking around you can easily find the line combinations for the other team and see if the players/prospects you are throwing into the proposal actually fit the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinot blanc Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 At least two of the following three have to be moved..... they are slow, injury prone and non-productive from a defensive point of view. GARRISON, BIEKSA OR EDLER. This guys are slow, slow, slow and always out of position in their end of the rink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 ^although I agree with you, just don't think that'll happen. I really want Garrison traded/bought out case he's been pretty bad this year. Doesn't play as well as we thought he would and clearly Brian Campbell advertised him to be better than he is in Florida when he basically set him up for all his goals. Edler is the one I see gone. Bieksa is retiring a Canuck. Hamhuis is staying cause he loves Van and as for Garry, don't think he'll waive I be traded out of his hometown and own other possible option I see his a buyout which again I think management won't do just cause they're too hesitant to make a move like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnScott Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If Edler is going to Detroit, Nyquist and Mantha are coming back. No they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.