peaches5 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The rangers had 96 points playing in the east. In the west they would not even be a playoff team I would have them around 85-89 points with Phoenix and Nashville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 and again, that's still better than us so are 23 other teams, what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Maybe a bit better than wildcard. But I would argue that if the Rangers were in the West and had Sutter as a coach they'd be pretty close to where they are right now. AV is a good coach. That 's it. Good. He rode Luongo to victory in Vancouver and has ridden Lundquist to victory in NYC. He's great in the regular season: that has been proven already. Those saying he wasn't "the" problem are correct. Those saying he wasn't part of the problem are delusional. His inability to adjust will leave him winless when it counts, yet again. you're giving Sutter too much credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 The rangers had 96 points playing in the east. In the west they would not even be a playoff team I would have them around 85-89 points with Phoenix and Nashville. I disagree, but there's no way to prove it either way. However, it does illustrate an interesting point: Now that the Rags are down 3-0, the usual suspects have turned up to spout their usual tired rhetoric. My favorite is "He's a great regular season coach, but a lousy playoff coach"... Yet here he is, coaching one of the only two teams left in the playoffs, after a season in which his team finished with the 12th best record overall. Sounds to me like the "critics" have it backwards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I've always liked AV, and didn't think he was the 'main' problem that Vancouver was faced with following the 2011 run...but I did agree that his time as a Canuck was over and that the players were no longer tuned into what he was broadcasting. Despite this, I don't think there can be any doubt that Vigneault is the best coach that they've had since Pat Quinn and his accomplishments speak for themselves.That being said, watching these Finals and hearing some of the analysis; it is eerily similar to all the things that were being observed and commented on from a few years ago (regarding AV's tactics). The general consensus among the hockey brain trust (such as they are) is that he is still not inspiring his players enough or "coaching" them to the degree that they need.Now obviously we aren't seeing this on the same level as an NHL coach but it sounds to me like some lessons haven't been learned here, and that AV's current team is spinning its tires much like Vancouver was with the "let the players figure it out approach". In conclusion: Failure to adjust. Been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 This "failure to adjust" routine is old and tired.....and inaccurate. The Rangers lost games 1 and 2 in OT games that could easily have gone the other way. (Remember the post by Kreider?) Also, in game two, they were the victims of two terrible calls one resulting in a goal for LA and the other robbing them of a powerplay in OT. In game three, they had more than twice as many shots as the Kings, but were facing a goaltender who was standing on his head. (That's about the only similarity between this Cup final and the one in 2011) Meanwhile, the Kings scored three goals, all of which were the result of lucky bounces. Expecting a coach to "make adjustments" for bad bounces and missed calls shows a lack of understanding of what a coach can and cannot control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He-Lord Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Love the AV lovers getting all butthurt over this after all the crap they've been saying when he advanced to the finals. How does your own medicine taste now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I've always liked AV, and didn't think he was the 'main' problem that Vancouver was faced with following the 2011 run...but I did agree that his time as a Canuck was over and that the players were no longer tuned into what he was broadcasting. Despite this, I don't think there can be any doubt that Vigneault is the best coach that they've had since Pat Quinn and his accomplishments speak for themselves.That being said, watching these Finals and hearing some of the analysis; it is eerily similar to all the things that were being observed and commented on from a few years ago (regarding AV's tactics). The general consensus among the hockey brain trust (such as they are) is that he is still not inspiring his players enough or "coaching" them to the degree that they need. Now obviously we aren't seeing this on the same level as an NHL coach but it sounds to me like some lessons haven't been learned here, and that AV's current team is spinning its tires much like Vancouver was with the "let the players figure it out approach". In conclusion: Failure to adjust. Been there, done that. Heard Drew Doughty on the radio recently say that Sutter barely says squat to the team. And a well known hockey analyst also recently stated that he doesn't believe Sutter does much in the way of coaching (X's and O's) at all. So what are we to make of these types of statements? Is it possible that they have a veteran team of very good players with excellent depth that know their respective roles on a very good team? Look, there's a reason AV is in New York. That team is a decent team, but in my mind in no way can their quality be compared to the top dogs in the West. I'd go so far as saying that they would have had trouble beating most of the Western Conference playoff teams had they met in the finals. This result isn't surprising is it as pretty much everyone was predicting that the Cup champ would be coming from the West going back before the playoffs even started. Even so, the NYR generally outplayed the Kings in the first two games of this series with the Kings not holding a lead at any time during both games. If not for a couple of bad bounces, this series could be a much different story. Game 3 you could see what life was left in the team being sucked away after that last second goal no doubt. So in saying this, how is this AV's fault again? I just don't understand how people around here just can't seem let go of the bitterness they harbour towards a very good coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Love the AV lovers getting all butthurt over this after all the crap they've been saying when he advanced to the finals. How does your own medicine taste now? Shouldn't you be in school little man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 This "failure to adjust" routine is old and tired.....and inaccurate.The Rangers lost games 1 and 2 in OT games that could easily have gone the other way. (Remember the post by Kreider?) Also, in game two, they were the victims of two terrible calls one reulting in a goal for LA and the other robbing them of a powerplay in OT.In game three, they had more than twice as many shots as the Kings, but were facing a goaltender who was standing on his head. (That's about the only similarity between this Cup final and the one in 2011) Meanwhile, the Kings scored three goals, all of which were the result of lucky bounces.Expecting a coach to "make adjustments" for bad bounces and missed calls shows a lack of understanding of what a coach can and cannot control.Yeah, that is why I qualified my statement by saying that we (well myself anyways, I suppose some know more than others...) don't know all that much about how a real pro level bench boss does things. All I am saying is that what is being observed now, as compared to then, is strikingly similar. I tend to believe there is a kernel of truth in such things and even though I have no doubt it is much overblown by the media, it is still there to some degree or another.Personally, I think the main problem is simply that the Kings are a much better hockey club than the Rangers. This isn't much of a surprise to anyone though, and getting all the bounces, like you say, has certainly helped them pull ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He-Lord Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Shouldn't you be in school little man?Really? A dumbass reply is all you can muster, "little man?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Really? A dumbass reply is all you can muster, "little man?" Good come-back Potsie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He-Lord Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Good come-back Potsie!Glad you at least recognize greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Once again all of AV's top players are completely shut down in the cup finals. And people wanted Rick Nash in Vancouver a couple years ago... AV coaches the offense right out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Love the AV lovers getting all butthurt over this after all the crap they've been saying when he advanced to the finals. How does your own medicine taste now? Silly statement. Even if they're swept, the Rangers have advanced farther than anyone, including themselves, would have predicted. Most pundits and a lot of CDC had them losing to the Flyers in the first round. This has been nothing but a huge success for AV and the Rangers and trying to suggest otherwise shows a complete bias against him, or a complete lack of understanding of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Love the AV lovers getting all butthurt over this after all the crap they've been saying when he advanced to the finals. How does your own medicine taste now? Funny how the AV haters have crawled back out of their hole...Anything less than the SC was going to bring a trash comment like this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He-Lord Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Funny how the AV haters have crawled back out of their hole...Anything less than the SC was going to bring a trash comment like this.....Except I was never an AV hater, just a hater of you pathetic AV lovers who talked trash only to now whine and cry when you got a taste of your own medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Lets see .. 1) You do not hate AV 2) You do hate anyone who is 'pathetic' enough to 'love' AV, tho Well that clears that up. AV has done a great job to help guide the Rangers to where they are in the Finals .. nothing anyone here can say will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Except I was never an AV hater, just a hater of you pathetic AV lovers who talked trash only to now whine and cry when you got a taste of your own medicine. Oh ....sorry to say that Torts won't be here next year you..BTW..nobody was whining and crying..just congratulating AV on a job well done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocnucksfan Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 AV surely wasn't the sole reason. if he was last season under torts wouldn't have been as bad as it was. having said that, coaches have shelf lives and AV had come to the end of his. he is a great coach, obviously, but he needed a new room and new faces as much as the canucks need a new face and voice to lead them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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