The I Support BC Teachers thread

[inane]

To the people who support teachers you do realize you are going to be paying for their salaries and not only their salaries but their pensions that basically mirror their salaries. These teachers need to STFU and get back in their classrooms and teach.

Just like we do for firefighters, city planners, nurses, etc... So what's your point.

[Heretic]

To the people who support teachers you do realize you are going to be paying for their salaries and not only their salaries but their pensions that basically mirror their salaries. These teachers need to STFU and get back in their classrooms and teach.

The pensions don't "mirror" their salaries - you must be thinking of the MLA's.

Yes, teachers need to get back to work for based on some of the posts in this thread alone, students need more education.

[peaches5]

The pensions don't "mirror" their salaries - you must be thinking of the MLA's.

Yes, teachers need to get back to work for based on some of the posts in this thread alone, students need more education.

The teachers pension is far greater than the norm and its being paid for by taxpayers on top of their already overpaid salaries. If they don't like what the government offers fire them all and replace them. I've talked with two teachers on the weekend who were saying how a lot of teachers are against this strike and even said they are overpaid and over pensioned. Most of people teaching are just there because of the benefits not because they love teaching.

[inane]

The teachers pension is far greater than the norm and its being paid for by taxpayers on top of their already overpaid salaries. If they don't like what the government offers fire them all and replace them. I've talked with two teachers on the weekend who were saying how a lot of teachers are against this strike and even said they are overpaid and over pensioned. Most of people teaching are just there because of the benefits not because they love teaching.

lol troll

[TOMapleLaughs]

The teachers pension is far greater than the norm and its being paid for by taxpayers on top of their already overpaid salaries. If they don't like what the government offers fire them all and replace them. I've talked with two teachers on the weekend who were saying how a lot of teachers are against this strike and even said they are overpaid and over pensioned. Most of people teaching are just there because of the benefits not because they love teaching.

On the scale of being overpaid and overpensioned, politicians take the cake.

Problem is teachers are jelly of this and the BCTF leadership has it in their heads that the politicin' game is fruitful, even though the teachers themselves stand to benefit very little from this recent labour action. At the end of the day if they break even after wages lost during the strike, that will be a win.

I doubt the teachers are actually for the strike, but they're even less for the government.

I know quite a few teachers. None are rolling in cash. They make a fair living for educated professionals, but down the scale in that category. But all love teaching. Not the job conditions, but you pretty much have to love it to take all the crap they get from all angles.

[johngould21]

I'm not surprised that you voted against it. The HST was defeated mainly by people like yourself who blindly listened to the negative propoganda put forth by Vander Zalm and the NDP, or hated the Liberals so much they refused to support anything they tried to do.

If you and your ilk had bothered to educate yourselves, the province might not have lost 3 billion dollars. Meanwhile, you can carry on whining about executive pay increases that amount to less than 1% of that.

Me and my ilk, really! The majority got the vote out, you and wetcoaster blindly listened to the Liberals and Harpo. Ask any accountant, how much of a tax grab it was and would have been to the working poor.

[Heretic]

The teachers pension is far greater than the norm and its being paid for by taxpayers on top of their already overpaid salaries. If they don't like what the government offers fire them all and replace them. I've talked with two teachers on the weekend who were saying how a lot of teachers are against this strike and even said they are overpaid and over pensioned. Most of people teaching are just there because of the benefits not because they love teaching.

How are their salaries overpaid? How is their pension any different than other public servants?

Seeing how you didn't care to search this thread, here's some previous comments about "pensions":

Reason I brought up the "pensions" was because of the ignorance of some people here thinking the tax payers are spending so much on Teacher pensions when in fact the Liberal government instituted a huge pension contribution - doubling what it was under the NDP from the taxpayers into the Government elected pension fund.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...sions-1.1224045

In 1996, the NDP provincial government implemented a pension plan where, for every $1 the MLA put in, taxpayers would put $1 in as well.

But in 2007, the ruling B.C. Liberals brought in a pension plan where for every $1 an MLA contributes, taxpayers contribute $4.

MLAs qualify for the pension after six years in office.

• Former premier Gordon Campbell will get a pension that starts at $98,000 a year.
• Retiring Speaker Bill Barisoff, of Penticton, will start at about $91,000 a year.
• Former cabinet minister Iain Black, who quit last year, had just six years service and will collect about $30,000 to start.
• NDP MLA Michael Sather, in office for eight years, would collect $28,500.

Edit: Here's another older article on our MLA's - interesting that they use the "look what MLA's get in other Provinces" but won't accept that line of reasoning from the teachers.

So the MLAs and cabinet ministers will, along with the premier and Opposition leader, get a healthy raise in pay. This comes on a recommendation of a commission of three independents who, we're told, looked at what inflation has done since the last pay increase and made comparisons with other provinces. The result will be a raise for the MLAs from $76,000 to 98,000 and the premier from $121,000 to 186,000. Once Carole James gets over her politically inspired hissy fit (which annoyed the hell out of her backbench) she too gets a healthy increase.

http://thetyee.ca/Vi...7/05/07/MLAPay/

And some more "general" info:

B.C.’s public sector pension plans also strive for fairness between the plan members, the plan employers, and the taxpayers. The pension benefits themselves are much more modest than many people believe.

BC Public Sector Pension Payment Amounts for 2010 – Dollars per Year

Municipal Pension Plan Public Service Pension Plan Teachers’ Pension Plan College Pension Plan Median

$11,241

$14,440

$28,432

$17,597

Average

$15,498

$18,197

$28,698

$19,746

The large scale and professional management of these plans also helps keep costs down. The total cost of investment management and pension administration for these plans is 0.25 per cent, or about one-tenth of what individual investors pay for investment management.

Cost sharing and risk sharing also contribute to the fairness of these plans. In general, B.C.’s public sector plan members are paying 50 per cent of the cost of their pension benefit. In addition, the plan members bear more than 50 per cent of the financial risk in these plans.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/12/12/why-our-public-sector-pension-plans-are-better-b-c-s-pre-funded-model-invests-contributions-from-current-workers-to-pay-for-their-pensions-once-they-retire-in-the-u-k-its-pay-as-you/

[BeefcakeBo]

Or we can wait for that LNG windfall, which isn't going to happen. I voted against the HST, and proud of it. TAX grab, among all the other tax grabs this Conservative Gov't in BC has been handing out over their existence. The silence is deafening since that HST was removed, from business especially.

Ha if only you would have realized that the HST cost taxpayers less money overall. It was actually a tax cut but if all you listened to was a bunch of losers that couldn't understand it, we wouldn't have had raise the taxes again. Considering that implementation of HST and then reinstating GST and PST cost the province billions of dollars is insane just because some of the voters here couldn't understand how it worked, and were to stubborn to be reasoned with. Clearly the education system never worked for you.

[johngould21]

Ha if only you would have realized that the HST cost taxpayers less money overall. It was actually a tax cut but if all you listened to was a bunch of losers that couldn't understand it, we wouldn't have had raise the taxes again. Considering that implementation of HST and then reinstating GST and PST cost the province billions of dollars is insane just because some of the voters here couldn't understand how it worked, and were to stubborn to be reasoned with. Clearly the education system never worked for you.

Guess we'll never know then will we? HA! Are you Wetcoaster and his ilk?

[23Gradin]

On the scale of being overpaid and overpensioned, politicians take the cake.

Problem is teachers are jelly of this and the BCTF leadership has it in their heads that the politicin' game is fruitful, even though the teachers themselves stand to benefit very little from this recent labour action. At the end of the day if they break even after wages lost during the strike, that will be a win.

I doubt the teachers are actually for the strike, but they're even less for the government.

I know quite a few teachers. None are rolling in cash. They make a fair living for educated professionals, but down the scale in that category. But all love teaching. Not the job conditions, but you pretty much have to love it to take all the crap they get from all angles.

"I doubt the teachers are actually for the strike, but they're even less for the government."

THAT is the main sentiment I get as well. On several levels, there is "more than meets the eye" so to speak. Beyond the issues of wages, benefits and CC/CS, the concern is that if the govt is able to get away with their redoing of contracts (whether it is thru winning the appeal or through a deal where the gains from the courts are negotiated away) this may set the new pattern/precedent of how contracts are dealt with. Despite govt's demands to get in line with previous public sector contracts, the reality is that the teachers contract represents a new cycle/round, with the nurses coming up later in the fall and others behind them. That is why govt is so entrenched.

[BeefcakeBo]

Guess we'll never know then will we? HA! Are you Wetcoaster and his ilk?

Guess we will never know what? I'm afraid to ask because I'm not sure I'll be able to understand your next response either. But let's not derail this thread to HST. It's about the teachers strike.

[VMR]

The teachers pension is far greater than the norm and its being paid for by taxpayers on top of their already overpaid salaries. If they don't like what the government offers fire them all and replace them. I've talked with two teachers on the weekend who were saying how a lot of teachers are against this strike and even said they are overpaid and over pensioned. Most of people teaching are just there because of the benefits not because they love teaching.

Strange how the strike happened if a lot of teachers are against the strike. Voting was pretty clear that most of the teachers wanted to strike/try for a better situation and only some did not want to. Anyone that says they are over paid and over pensioned are telling you want you want to hear. Would you personally turn down more money if you had the opportunity?

My daughter is not in school and it makes me angry, but I can't and will not blame just the teachers. There are two sides to this.

[23Gradin]

I hope I'm wrong, but despite whatever concessions are made - short of the govt dropping their e80 clause protecting them from the outcome of the COA - I can only see binding mediation/arbitration (highly unlikely govt agrees to this) or legislation (which becomes less of a problem in the courts' eyes if it can be demonstrated enough time and "efforts" have been exhausted) as the only means to end this current stalemate. The only way I see legislation being entertained by govt is if this is dragged into mid-October to allow the song and dance of this faux negotiation to be demonstrated to the courts.

This looks like the first year ever where the NHL season will kick off BEFORE schools (Public) start!

[23Gradin]

Strange how the strike happened if a lot of teachers are against the strike. Voting was pretty clear that most of the teachers wanted to strike/try for a better situation and only some did not want to. Anyone that says they are over paid and over pensioned are telling you want you want to hear. Would you personally turn down more money if you had the opportunity?

My daughter is not in school and it makes me angry, but I can't and will not blame just the teachers. There are two sides to this.

I am quite sure based on anecdotal evidence only mind you that the decision was a reluctant one. That is why most agreed to the phasing in of job action from stage 1 which people barely noticed (mostly directed at formal administrative meetings) to stage 2 (rotating) to finally stage 3 which is the current state. Based on discussions with many of them, it wasn't a gung-ho ra ra ra spirit, as the sense was rather resignation to the notion that phases 1&2 didn't have any effect and that this was the last resort. I do feel though that there were some grave miscalculations in terms of the timing of the escalation, but that once their decision had been made, there was no turning back.

[RUPERTKBD]

Me and my ilk, really! The majority got the vote out, you and wetcoaster blindly listened to the Liberals and Harpo. Ask any accountant, how much of a tax grab it was and would have been to the working poor.

I don't want to derail the thread any further, so I'll just point out that I know several accountants who do not share your view. Neither do the overwhelming number of economists, or the Ontario Minister of Finance who's opinion was that BC had lost much of it's economic competitiveness, when the HST was repealed.

I listened to nobody. I went out and did my own research. Unfortunately, I was apparently in the minority.

This is my last word on the HST in this thread. If you'd like further education on the matter, dig up one of the old HST threads.

[Tearloch7]

"A mind is a terrible thing to waste" .. these kids should be in school .. c'mon Christy .. time to stand up to your 'Masters' and do what is for the best of this Province .. God is watching, and She is not amused.

[RUPERTKBD]

This is why it's hard to take the anti-government side seriously. It's the kind of thing that a nine year old would do and it makes me wonder if the misspelling was intentional or not.

There are plenty of good arguments for the teachers' position. Maybe you should stick to them.

Edit: Not sure what happened with the pic, but for those that couldn't guess, it's the childish shot of Christy holding up a poorly photoshopped "I hate teechers" sign...

[23Gradin]

I am quite sure based on anecdotal evidence only mind you that the decision was a reluctant one. That is why most agreed to the phasing in of job action from stage 1 which people barely noticed (mostly directed at formal administrative meetings) to stage 2 (rotating) to finally stage 3 which is the current state. Based on discussions with many of them, it wasn't a gung-ho ra ra ra spirit, as the sense was rather resignation to the notion that phases 1&2 didn't have any effect and that this was the last resort. I do feel though that there were some grave miscalculations in terms of the timing of the escalation, but that once their decision had been made, there was no turning back.

Just a further note, I'm sure many are hurting - and the hurt will only get worse as this drags on - but regardless of where we may each stand in terms of our own individual perspectives, please let's not forget that these are fellow people who just like us have families, rent/mortgages, food and other bills to pay. I will not begrudge anyone else trying to reasonably better their conditions just as I would hope they would not begrudge me doing the same.

[RUPERTKBD]

The pensions don't "mirror" their salaries - you must be thinking of the MLA's.

I'm not going to pretend that I know how teachers' compensation/pensions work, H, because I certainly do not. However, a good friend of mine retired last year about 2/3 of the way through the school year.

Many of his colleagues assumed that he would finish the school year out, but his response was "Why? I only make a little bit less by not working".

I have to point out that he was a teacher for several years, before becoming a Principal and an IT consultant for the School district, so I have to assume that would make a difference in his pension.

However, the fact remains that Teachers' pensions are nothing to sneeze at and a lot better than many of us working in the private sector.

[23Gradin]

This is why it's hard to take the anti-government side seriously. It's the kind of thing that a nine year old would do and it makes me wonder if the misspelling was intentional or not.

There are plenty of good arguments for the teachers' position. Maybe you should stick to them.

Just being facetious here, but how do you know that's NOT a nine-year old who did the photo? Lol after all, most of them aren't in school so they have time on their hands!