2015 Metro Vancouver Transportation and Transit Plebiscite - Result In - 62% NO

[inane]

Its a road map to eliminate GST, there should be a lot of time for the government to find an alternate income source.

Like what? stop hiding behind vague bs.

[inane]

Because of the way they have spend our money, I have zero confidence those plans will be completed on time and on budget. What if my fear has come true? Another tax hikes?

Please don't take this personally, but nothing is going to stop me from voting no.

So basically you don't trust government and.....? Want what? I'm tired of all these anti tax anti government wankers who piss and moan but never offer realistic alternatives.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

I don't get you at all, we all have spoken our alternatives. Just leave things the way it is. It is not a good alternative but at least we don't get to waste our money at accomplishing little.

[inane]

I don't get you at all, we all have spoken our alternatives. Just leave things the way it is. It is not a good alternative but at least we don't get to waste our money at accomplishing little.

Your alternative is cut taxes but you refuse to say what you'd cut. It's so easy to rant but a lot harder to critically think.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

Like what? stop hiding behind vague bs.

I am not a professional and already can name a few. Bus fare, road tolls increase, issue bonds, increase properties tax . Make the actual users who are going to be benefit from the project pay.

Oh, in terms of paying too much tax. BC GST is 12%, only 5% in alberta, and 9.5% in Seattle. Also BC driver is paying the highest rate of gas tax according to this article.

http://www.news1130.com/2012/05/17/bc-gas-taxes-highest-in-canada/

These are just a few examples, i could come up with more if you need me to.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

Your alternative is cut taxes but you refuse to say what you'd cut. It's so easy to rant but a lot harder to critically think.

because there is no need to cut anything, tourism would have increased, consumption would have increased. The elimination of GST/PST doesn't necessary create a large deficit. I am sorry but how about you do some critical thinking for once.

[literaphile]

I am not a professional and already can name a few. Bus fare, road tolls increase, issue bonds, increase properties tax . Make the actual users who are going to be benefit from the project pay.

Oh, in terms of paying too much tax. BC GST is 12%, only 5% in alberta, and 9.5% in Seattle. Also BC driver is paying the highest rate of gas tax according to this article.

http://www.news1130.com/2012/05/17/bc-gas-taxes-highest-in-canada/

These are just a few examples, i could come up with more if you need me to.

No, GST is 5% in BC. GST is a federal tax. GST plus the provincial PST is 12%. If you're going to criticize, get your facts straight.

You obviously don't know any of the economics behind what you're suggesting. The GST is Canada's third highest source of income behind personal income tax and corporate income tax. The GST brings Canada $31.3 billion dollars per year. You think you can replace that by slapping some tolls on roads and increasing property tax?

On the PST side (the provincial tax), the PST is BC's second highest source of income, behind personal income tax (and not counting transfers from the federal government). The PST brings the province around $6 billion dollars per year. Again - do you think that's easily replaced? Do you have any idea how much money your suggestions will actually raise, or are you just shooting from the hip?

Here's a hint. Property tax currently brings the province about 38% of what the PST brings in. So you'd have to more than double property tax to make up for the loss of PST. Yeah, that sounds like a great idea... are you a homeowner? Do you have any clue what property tax currently costs?

I'll leave it to you to figure out the rest.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

No, GST is 5% in BC. GST is a federal tax. GST plus the provincial PST is 12%. If you're going to criticize, get your facts straight.

You obviously don't know any of the economics behind what you're suggesting. The GST is Canada's third highest source of income behind personal income tax and corporate income tax. The GST brings Canada $31.3 billion dollars per year. You think you can replace that by slapping some tolls on roads and increasing property tax?

On the PST side (the provincial tax), the PST is BC's second highest source of income, behind personal income tax (and not counting transfers from the federal government). The PST brings the province around $6 billion dollars per year. Again - do you think that's easily replaced? Do you have any idea how much money your suggestions will actually raise, or are you just shooting from the hip?

Here's a hint. Property tax currently brings the province about 38% of what the PST brings in. So you'd have to more than double property tax to make up for the loss of PST. Yeah, that sounds like a great idea... are you a homeowner? Do you have any clue what property tax currently costs?

I'll leave it to you to figure out the rest.

I am sorry, i left the PST in the mix. GST/PST is 12%. Of course GST/PST cannot be entirely fulfilled by tourism and increased consumption. But how about decreasing our military spending, decrease foreign aids, retreat from the middle east, delete NSA style spying on Canadians, Increase cigarettes tax by 500%

Increase alcohol tax by 200%, and lastly decrease wasteful spending. How can Translink stomach renting for a building that was never going to be used?

A road map to eliminate takes somewhere like 20-30 years to complete.

[DonLever]

Still wondering why this thread has "referendum" in the title when our cowardly provincial government has already downgraded it to a plebiscite.

When this thread was started last year, it was called a referendum by the government. Like you said, it has since been downgraded to a plebiscite. I made the change.

[Ghostsof1915]

I am sorry, i left the PST in the mix. GST/PST is 12%. Of course GST/PST cannot be entirely fulfilled by tourism and increased consumption. But how about decreasing our military spending, decrease foreign aids, retreat from the middle east, delete NSA style spying on Canadians, Increase cigarettes tax by 500%

Increase alcohol tax by 200%, and lastly decrease wasteful spending. How can Translink stomach renting for a building that was never going to be used?

A road map to eliminate takes somewhere like 20-30 years to complete.

Our military is grossly underfunded to do even simple rescue operations. The feds have already wiped out the coast guard. Fisheries and Oceans have been slashed. You raise taxes on cigarettes and tobacco, people will just buy from the US.

Ironically any sales tax is probably the most fair system of taxation as it effects rich, middle and poor alike, all at the same rate.

If anything we need to consolidate school boards, and looking at cutting management positions, not front line positions from government. We need less paper pushers, and more front line staff. Be it food inspectors, environmental officers, etc.

Maybe think about Translink the next provincial election. Instead of making it more efficient. The Liberals just added more layers of companies. Instead of BC Transit, now you have Translink, Coast Mountain Bus Company, etc.

Why more admin? We need more infrastructure.

But you can't wave a magic wand and say look a new bridge at no cost! Free buses! Free trains. All these things cost money to buy. The CTF, is living in a dream world. The same one the Fraser Institute lives in.

[taxi]

I am sorry, i left the PST in the mix. GST/PST is 12%. Of course GST/PST cannot be entirely fulfilled by tourism and increased consumption. But how about decreasing our military spending, decrease foreign aids, retreat from the middle east, delete NSA style spying on Canadians, Increase cigarettes tax by 500%

Increase alcohol tax by 200%, and lastly decrease wasteful spending. How can Translink stomach renting for a building that was never going to be used?

A road map to eliminate takes somewhere like 20-30 years to complete.

You lost me at booze tax.

Also do you really think people are going to pay $50 for a pack of cigarettes.

[taxi]

Our military is grossly underfunded to do even simple rescue operations. The feds have already wiped out the coast guard. Fisheries and Oceans have been slashed. You raise taxes on cigarettes and tobacco, people will just buy from the US.

Ironically any sales tax is probably the most fair system of taxation as it effects rich, middle and poor alike, all at the same rate.

If anything we need to consolidate school boards, and looking at cutting management positions, not front line positions from government. We need less paper pushers, and more front line staff. Be it food inspectors, environmental officers, etc.

Maybe think about Translink the next provincial election. Instead of making it more efficient. The Liberals just added more layers of companies. Instead of BC Transit, now you have Translink, Coast Mountain Bus Company, etc.

Why more admin? We need more infrastructure.

But you can't wave a magic wand and say look a new bridge at no cost! Free buses! Free trains. All these things cost money to buy. The CTF, is living in a dream world. The same one the Fraser Institute lives in.

A major issue is the inefficiencies of the government.

I'm for sales tax as well. As you've pointed out it gets everybody, including the income tax cheaters.

I think we should work to decrease income taxes, particularly for those below $60k. In order to do that the government needs to make the tough decisions and trim the fat.

[elvis15]

I'm not changing your mind, so no point really engaging. But,I find it funny that people complain about corruption and back room deals and use that as a reason to vote no to one of the most transparent plans ever put forth.

Basically. It seems that side of the argument should have people rallying against paying any tax at all.

How many of them have opted out of taxes on their pay checks? That's entirely legal and they could manage their own income tax results accordingly (although that's just another way they'd be paying tax, much to their chagrin).

I am not a professional and already can name a few. Bus fare, road tolls increase, issue bonds, increase properties tax . Make the actual users who are going to be benefit from the project pay.

Oh, in terms of paying too much tax. BC GST is 12%, only 5% in alberta, and 9.5% in Seattle. Also BC driver is paying the highest rate of gas tax according to this article.

http://www.news1130.com/2012/05/17/bc-gas-taxes-highest-in-canada/

These are just a few examples, i could come up with more if you need me to.

But do you not see how that's just paying taxes another way? Maybe there are slight differences in the amounts people will contribute, but then again voting no on this would mean the funds would come from a general budget from all of BC rather than a specific and managed budget provided by the increase from the area where the funding will be spent.

Then again, if your suggestion is to make people who are riding the buses (who likely are doing so from a standpoint of affordability rather than convenience) pay more then I'm not sure you've thought it through. We want to encourage people to use transit to reduce the impacts of individuals driving everywhere (environmental, road wear, etc.) and generally any of the other taxes would end up impacting people anyway whether they use those services or not.

[aGENT]

Sure, but is it enough to throw the entire regions infrastructure out the window?

You keep latching on to this like a dog on a bone but executive pay (while yes, a drop in their budgetary bucket) speaks to their fiscal mismanagement and to the government/corporate corruption people take issue with.

Frankly I hope this fails as a means to an end. This will fail, transit will get worse, the Province will continue to bumble the plan and mismanage, misspend and give kick backs to their buddies to the point that people will have to get angry, educate themselves and make an actual, meaningful change in governance.

Frankly the more corrupt and faster they can do it, the better IMO. It will simply force people in to resolve all the better.

[elvis15]

I'd hope the only way around fixing the system isn't that we let the whole thing implode first.

[aGENT]

I'd hope the only way around fixing the system isn't that we let the whole thing implode first.

I'd hope too but frankly my faith in the general public is not that high. People are ignorant and lazy until they're FORCED to react unfortunately.

[hsedin33]

Sure, but is it enough to throw the entire regions infrastructure out the window?

Don't blame the people who live here. It wasn't me who wanted to strain the infrastructure by bringing in way too many people with no regard for its consequences. The cities saw dollar signs in their eyes and gave no regard for the impact it had on the residents daily lives.Their motto is 'Get money first who cares about the rest'. They can get their money for infrastructure and transit through all the increased property tax revenue they are getting, which is probably more then enough. Screw this tax.

[elvis15]

Really? Because you didn't see that a metropolitan city and it's surrounding area like Vancouver would increase in population and require more upgrades to infrastructure over time? And that the increased need for improvements might come with increased tax levels to some extent?

I'd hope too but frankly my faith in the general public is not that high. People are ignorant and lazy until they're FORCED to react unfortunately.

And that's a little too apparent in some of the threads we see on CDC.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

Really? Because you didn't see that a metropolitan city and it's surrounding area like Vancouver would increase in population and require more upgrades to infrastructure over time? And that the increased need for improvements might come with increased tax levels to some extent?

And that's a little too apparent in some of the threads we see on CDC.

Hmmm...no...Calgary has no PST, and hong Kong has 7 million, no sales tax whatsoever.

Government should not use more tax to solve their problem. What if different interest group wants money? What if school board wants money to upgrade their school to be more earthquake ready? Another tax hike? How about dike improvement? Another tax hike?

[taxi]

Don't blame the people who live here. It wasn't me who wanted to strain the infrastructure by bringing in way too many people with no regard for its consequences. The cities saw dollar signs in their eyes and gave no regard for the impact it had on the residents daily lives.Their motto is 'Get money first who cares about the rest'. They can get their money for infrastructure and transit through all the increased property tax revenue they are getting, which is probably more then enough. Screw this tax.

People came here on their own. Cities grow.

Vancouver isn't even one of the fastest growing cities in Canada. It lags behind most of the major cities.

The only way to stop people moving here would be to halt immigration to Canada generally.