RWMc1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Actually.... With the caveat (as inferred by the poster you responded to) that Hodgson does come back with an improved defensive game (I'd also throw in an improved physical game - for example, his play off Suban in the ozone followed by the slick hands to set up a goal, needs to be a regular rather than sporadic thing), there's definitely a spot for Hodgson in Vancouver-land.... The kid's strongest tools are his play making vision, soft hands and wicked shot. Wrap him in a stronger physical game (ozone particularly) and don't give him Patrice Bergeron's 43.6% d-zone starts as though he's a somehow gonna be a two-way star, then plug some quality on his wings to close deals, and you've got a great second line. Still can't Hodgson as a 1C caliber for a contending team though, so you'd need to look elsewhere for a Henrik replacement when the time comes. But yeah, he'd fit right in at 2C. Btw, notwithstanding that in theory every player at every stage of his career ought to earn his spot, there is in fact a big diff between the prospects you refer to being gifted a spot and a proven top 6 producer getting a shot to show if he's got what the job requires. Inferring doesn't make it so. That was the whole point. He has to step up in many categories if he wants to succeed. We can't just make a caveat and expect that to be enough. He has to prove himself again whether you like it or not. I will go so far as to guarantee that Hodgson will not be a Canuck next season. Quote me if you like. He got that shot with Buffalo and was found lacking. I even mentioned that our players are being held to higher standard before they can step into the lineup. You are suggesting that Cody be held to different standards merely because you, admittedly, like him. What's the difference again? You and other Cody supporters seem to want to gift him a spot on our team even though he has had obvious problems affecting his game. Keep in mind that I have stated that these prospects need to play a more complete game before they will be "gifted" a spot. Meanwhile Hodgson has "earned" his spot by being demoted all the way down in Buffalo and earning the ire of his coach who is well-known for demanding a complete game from his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 1. I didn't insult you so stop being a drama queen. 2. I'm not going to argue with a Cody Hodgson fanboy. History has proven that arguing with Cody and Zack fanboy's is a giant waste of time and never goes anywhere. I think that Murray is going to keep him. If I'm wrong and he gets bought out then he'll go to another team and get a fresh start with new linemates. That will be his final chance in the NHL if that's the scenario. Ok so personal insults first Symantics second Accusing the other side of the argument of being as irational as you are when their basis of their argument is your irrationality is third. I think ive finally figured out the cdc poster formula of blind $&!# chucking collowed by running away in denial. -backs away slowly- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Inferring doesn't make it so. That was the whole point. He has to step up in many categories if he wants to succeed. We can't just make a caveat and expect that to be enough. He has to prove himself again whether you like it or not. I will go so far as to guarantee that Hodgson will not be a Canuck next season. Quote me if you like. He got that shot with Buffalo and was found lacking. I even mentioned that our players are being held to higher standard before they can step into the lineup. You are suggesting that Cody be held to different standards merely because you, admittedly, like him. What's the difference again? You and other Cody supporters seem to want to gift him a spot on our team even though he has had obvious problems affecting his game. Keep in mind that I have stated that these prospects need to play a more complete game before they will be "gifted" a spot. Meanwhile Hodgson has "earned" his spot by being demoted all the way down in Buffalo and earning the ire of his coach who is well-known for demanding a complete game from his players. Sigh. Well, I gave engaging in a genuine discussion with you a shot, but it didn't work out. Go figure. So long as you persist with twisting (or altogether ignoring) what I have actually said merely to rush on with repeating your refrain, it's just not interesting. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 As opposed to the Cody supporters who totally minimize and trivialize his short-comings. They are considering buying him out for a reason. They are trying to light a fire under his butt. You Cody-lovers act as if he doesn't need to get his act together. You make it sound like his position is not any fault of his. He is only 25 and can rise back up, but he needs to put in the work; thus the call-out!!! Do you honestly believe that it's only about dislike? The fact that youre using divisive and childish language like "cody lovers" shows just how oddly unintellectual your stance is. He shows up out of shape for a tank year. Lol. Wow. You just dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Interesting argument, though it all seems to ahve turned personal. Scoring-wise, this past season was a statistical outlier. His production dropped, he was in his coach's doghouse, his play suffered. In 2013-14 Edler and Burrows both were in their coach's doghouse and had bad seasons and both bounced back with a change. Santorelli was pretty much a 1 season wonder in the NHL before he signed as an otherwise unwanted free agent with the 2013-14 Canucks. Hodgson has some skills and some deficiencies. He may never improve much from last season, but then again he may bounce back to become somewhat effective offensively. As long as we don't think of re-acquiring Hodson for the Canucks, it's pretty simple. We have no reason to care about how Hodgson does more than a couple of games each season. He isn't ours. What he does for the most part doesn't affect us at all. Those of us whose competitiveness doesn't extend to winning individual trades can watch dispassionately to see what, if anything, remains of his career, without caring much either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Interesting argument, though it all seems to ahve turned personal. As long as we don't think of re-acquiring Hodson for the Canucks, it's pretty simple. Scoring-wise, this past season was a statistical outlier. His production dropped, he was in his coach's doghouse, his play suffered. In 2013-14 Edler and Burrows both were in their coach's doghouse and had bad seasons and both bounced back with a change. Santorelli was pretty much a 1 season wonder in the NHL before he signed as an otherwise unwanted free agent with the 2013-14 Canucks. Hodgson has some skills and some deficiencies. He may never improve much from last season, but then again he may bounce back to become somewhat effective offensively. The best part is, we don't have to care about it. He isn't ours, what he does in the future affects us only a couple of games a season and those of us whose competitiveness doesn't extend to winning individual trades can watch dispassionately to see what, if anything, remains of his career. Or less than a couple games per season if he's magically benched two minutes before puck drop again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 How did you show i was wrong? You posted three years of terrible plus minus and i showed you that all of the sabres had horrid plus minus. I wasnt cherry picking i was answering false unaimed false target frustration venting on a stranger. You claimed he had only one bad season when in fact his decline started before that. The plus minus was evidence of that. I even include the facts that he got 1st line minutes with Buffaloes top players and had #1 PP minutes and still had a horrid +-. You seem to think that the previous -26 was not his fault because of the team. His coach disagrees with you, so do I. Otherwise, why was he demoted and why are they considering buying him out? Answer these questions. If he is as good as you claim, why the demotion to 4th line and the healthy scratches? Why are they considering buying him out? I'm not being too critical of him, you are being too apologetic for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 You claimed he had only one bad season when in fact his decline started before that. The plus minus was evidence of that. I even include the facts that he got 1st line minutes with Buffaloes top players and had #1 PP minutes and still had a horrid +-. You seem to think that the previous -26 was not his fault because of the team. His coach disagrees with you, so do I. Otherwise, why was he demoted and why are they considering buying him out? Answer these questions. If he is as good as you claim, why the demotion to 4th line and the healthy scratches? Why are they considering buying him out? I'm not being too critical of him, you are being too apologetic for him. His coach? Oh, you mean the coach who was fired? Who was widely regarded as a scapegoat? Your claim here would require a total oblivious mind to the fact that buffalo was t a n k i n g. The plus minus was evident of what? That he was on a tanking team? Are you okay? You use plus minus of his to prove your point and you refuse to open your eyes to the fact that THE WHOLE TEAM HAD BAD PLUS MINUS. For the love of god, this is like talking to a brick wall. It wasnt that it wasnt his fault because of the team it was that you cant single out one player when all the others shared his horrid plus minus. Going by what youre saying, it must have been codys fault that the team had bad plus minus. He was on the fourth line because Nolan couldnt figure out how to use him or the team was tanking and had to stifle his talent. It is widely accepted that they tanked. Im not claiming him to be the next gretzsky im saying there are too many irrational typical cdc posters who couldnt find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight who seem to get their jollies by ripping on one of many involved in a tank who doesnt deserve the hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Seriously? Let's clarify here - questioning the kid's mentality/psyche covers each one of your proposed negatives - and a great many more you haven't flagged. But to be fair, I'll match your weak effort of listing his positives with a second example drawn from my posts of today alone - another negative on the kid is his demeanor. His lack of heart-on-sleeve style naturally infers that he doesn't have the means to inspire his linemates (or team) by sheer will alone. Oh, and FYI, if you're gonna refer to comments made by his coaches and GMs, then you gotta also include all the favorable quotes attributed to the same. Again, like any player, nothing is black 'n white. EDIT: Oh what the heck, just to out-match your listing effort, I'll point you to another negative drawn from my comments just today - Hodgson's d game obviously needs to improve. Obviously you missed my repeated commentary in this regard, perhaps in the quick leap to keep on an unwarranted attack. So you chastise me for percieved narrow-mindedness and you can only question his demeanor/mentality/psyche. You then edit in a consession about his defence while using the caveat that he would fit in our lineup if he has better d. And you can't see your own hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 His coach? Oh, you mean the coach who was fired? Who was widely regarded as a scapegoat? Your claim here would require a total oblivious mind to the fact that buffalo was t a n k i n g. The plus minus was evident of what? That he was on a tanking team? Are you okay? You use plus minus of his to prove your point and you refuse to open your eyes to the fact that THE WHOLE TEAM HAD BAD PLUS MINUS. For the love of god, this is like talking to a brick wall. It wasnt that it wasnt his fault because of the team it was that you cant single out one player when all the others shared his horrid plus minus. Going by what youre saying, it must have been codys fault that the team had bad plus minus.He was on the fourth line because Nolan couldnt figure out how to use him or the team was tanking and had to stifle his talent. It is widely accepted that they tanked. Im not claiming him to be the next gretzsky im saying there are too many irrational typical cdc posters who couldnt find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight who seem to get their jollies by ripping on one of many involved in a tank who doesnt deserve the hate. He was the center on the 1st line on the year before they tanked. -26 not tanking. Ridiculous assumptions. Nolan couldn't figure out how to use him? Had to stifle his talent? It's not hatred. Ted Nolan is not the one considering buying him out. You can't even admit that he played so poorly that his job is in jeopardy. I'm not making that up. Why are they considering buying him out????? You didn't avoid that one repeatedly did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ok so personal insults first Symantics second Accusing the other side of the argument of being as irational as you are when their basis of their argument is your irrationality is third. I think ive finally figured out the cdc poster formula of blind crap chucking collowed by running away in denial. -backs away slowly- *insert drama queen meme picture here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 His coach? Oh, you mean the coach who was fired? Who was widely regarded as a scapegoat? Your claim here would require a total oblivious mind to the fact that buffalo was t a n k i n g. The plus minus was evident of what? That he was on a tanking team? Are you okay? You use plus minus of his to prove your point and you refuse to open your eyes to the fact that THE WHOLE TEAM HAD BAD PLUS MINUS. For the love of god, this is like talking to a brick wall. It wasnt that it wasnt his fault because of the team it was that you cant single out one player when all the others shared his horrid plus minus. Going by what youre saying, it must have been codys fault that the team had bad plus minus. He was on the fourth line because Nolan couldnt figure out how to use him or the team was tanking and had to stifle his talent. It is widely accepted that they tanked. Im not claiming him to be the next gretzsky im saying there are too many irrational typical cdc posters who couldnt find their own ass with two hands and a flashlight who seem to get their jollies by ripping on one of many involved in a tank who doesnt deserve the hate. Umm... I was kinda with you (especially about talking to a brick wall, lol) up to the part about suggesting Nolan stifled the kid's talent as part of the tanking push. I'd go with the general consensus being that management wanted an outright tank result. But Nolan... for all I don't favour his limited coaching and motivational tool box (stick 'n carrot gets lame after a while, and in any case simply doesn't work for everyone) and could not fail to see the incredible double-standard he consistently applied to keep Hodgson in the doghouse (shucks, if Moulson was benched for every cough up, Foligno press-boxed for total give-aways, and Ennis reduced to 5th line minutes for every time he stood around aimlessly in the dzone, Nolan wouldn't have had anyone on the ice!), I just can't see Nolan being of the character to tank, period. Sure can't see him deliberately stifling Hodgson's offensive talents in order to help the tank. Now rather obviously Nolan persistently (and so presumably consciously) plugged the kid into a role entirely unsuited to bring out his best. He also rather obviously couldn't resist from icing Hodgson in a way that his negatives were demonstrated in neon. But I don't think Nolan set Hodgson up to perform so poorly to help the tank, don't even see Nolan as being capable of wanting to help the tank. He's just way too honorable that way. No, Nolan's deployment of Hodgson was personal between them and intended only to fulfill his own prophecy. Humans are well-known for staking a belief/thought/idea/theory, etc. and then going about creating the situation that proves themselves right. And coaches, regardless of the level, are well-known for being human. So, when Nolan sat there with the team holding onto a 1 goal lead or riding even into the final stretches of the 3rd and magically put out Hodgson for a dzone start - after the kid had been benched cold for nearly the full period - that was about consciously or subconciously creating a situation to prove his doghouse case. It wasn't about the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 He was the center on the 1st line on the year before they tanked. -26 not tanking. Ridiculous assumptions. Nolan couldn't figure out how to use him? Had to stifle his talent? It's not hatred. Ted Nolan is not the one considering buying him out. You can't even admit that he played so poorly that his job is in jeopardy. I'm not making that up. Why are they considering buying him out????? You didn't avoid that one repeatedly did you? They scapegoated nolan and now theyre scapegoating hodgson. The gm is trying to put on a show as if they werent tanking and how it was nolan and hosgsons fault etc. Is his blabbing to the media about Eichel saying he will be better than McDavid among his other idiotic actions not enough to see the writing on the wall? Your question was why nolan put him on the fourth line and now youre running from my answer by saying it isnt about nolan. You brough nolan up. Wow. This is insanity. Okay cheif so what place did buffalo come in that year? How many players had a better plus minuss than the guy one year removed from his rookie year that was put in a first line position? The position that Nolan put him in. Sorry you cant bring up Nolan then pose a question immediately after disregarding him irrationally that is a direct result of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 So long as you persist with twisting (or altogether ignoring) what I have actually said merely to rush on with repeating your refrain, it's just not interesting. Have a good day. So you chastise me for percieved narrow-mindedness and you can only question his demeanor/mentality/psyche. You then edit in a consession about his defence while using the caveat that he would fit in our lineup if he has better d. And you can't see your own hypocrisy. So long as you persist with twisting (or altogether ignoring) what I have actually said merely to rush on with repeating your refrain, it's just not interesting. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 *insert drama queen meme picture here* Lmao keep running from reality by hiding behind personal insults. Its the key to success if youre a cdc poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Lmao keep running from reality by hiding behind personal insults. Its the key to success if youre a cdc poster. It's an observation, not an insult and for crying out loud, take the opportunity I purposely afforded you. You could say back something like: *insert picture of anus here*. It would be a clever and funny way to call me an as*hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Umm... I was kinda with you (especially about talking to a brick wall, lol) up to the part about suggesting Nolan stifled the kid's talent as part of the tanking push. I'd go with the general consensus being that management wanted an outright tank result. But Nolan... for all I don't favour his limited coaching and motivational tool box (stick 'n carrot gets lame after a while, and in any case simply doesn't work for everyone) and could not fail to see the incredible double-standard he consistently applied to keep Hodgson in the doghouse (shucks, if Moulson was benched for every cough up, Foligno press-boxed for total give-aways, and Ennis reduced to 5th line minutes for every time he stood around aimlessly in the dzone, Nolan wouldn't have had anyone on the ice!), I just can't see Nolan being of the character to tank, period. Sure can't see him deliberately stifling Hodgson's offensive talents in order to help the tank. Now rather obviously Nolan persistently (and so presumably consciously) plugged the kid into a role entirely unsuited to bring out his best. He also rather obviously couldn't resist from icing Hodgson in a way that his negatives were demonstrated in neon. But I don't think Nolan set Hodgson up to perform so poorly to help the tank, don't even see Nolan as being capable of wanting to help the tank. He's just way too honorable that way. No, Nolan's deployment of Hodgson was personal between them and intended only to fulfill his own prophecy. Humans are well-known for staking a belief/thought/idea/theory, etc. and then going about creating the situation that proves themselves right. And coaches, regardless of the level, are well-known for being human. So, when Nolan sat there with the team holding onto a 1 goal lead or riding even into the final stretches of the 3rd and magically put out Hodgson for a dzone start - after the kid had been benched cold for nearly the full period - that was about consciously or subconciously creating a situation to prove his doghouse case. It wasn't about the tank. Im arguing against blind illogical judgement base on insane notions and refusals to accept logic and reality. Im not going down the rabbit hole on why nolan misused hodgson but if we both accept that he did we are on the same side as far as i care to concern myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewismyname Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 It's an observation, not an insult and for crying out loud, take the opportunity I purposely afforded you. You could say back something like: *insert picture of anus here*. It would be a clever and funny way to call me an as*hole. Yea, but im an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yea, but im an adult. As am I. This is just a message board. We're not at work. Take life less seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Are people still on this? Just let it go, guy had a bad year on a bad team and most likely will be changing his address. Move along... there are much more important things in life to fuss bout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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