Alflives Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'd be OK with this too. I'm still hoping (I'm sure in vain but hey its the off season) that Benning takes a run at Seth Jones. Jones would be great! How in the world could we get him though? Him with Hamhuis would be an great pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: Jones would be great! How in the world could we get him though? Him with Hamhuis would be an great pair. No way Columbus trades him. I mean, the conversation would probably start at McCann, Tryamkin and Hansen. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 21 hours ago, combover said: No. Capitalization and punctuation? You sure you want to go down this road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 21 hours ago, VIC_CITY said: Hamhuis will give you the same offensive production as Demers, just minus a few goals and plus a few assists. The difference is that Demers will probably get 4-5 years, without a hometown discount. I also like Yandle but he's going to command around $7M for 6-7 years. That contract could look horrible in a few years. I would do 5 years though. And here I thought you were talking about Dan Hamhuis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 21 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: Name six teams that will finish below the Canucks next year? It isn't tanking anymore, tanking is what a good team does! I'm laughing tears of hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 21 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: No way Columbus trades him. I mean, the conversation would probably start at McCann, Tryamkin and Hansen. No thanks. Has to be offer sheet, there's probably no other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: And here I thought you were talking about Dan Hamhuis. Have you compared their stats the last few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 52 minutes ago, Alflives said: Jones would be great! How in the world could we get him though? Him with Hamhuis would be an great pair. They just gave up a young 6'4 220 center who'll probably contend for the Art Ross for the next 8 years.... So basically, Ballard, Raymond, and a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 46 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: No way Columbus trades him. I mean, the conversation would probably start at McCann, Tryamkin and Hansen. No thanks. Why would they want 3 guys who aren't as good as Jones? I think that the conversation starts with, "I am holding your children at gunpoint...", and ends with, "fifty million dollars, ten years of first rounders, Horvat, Hutton, Demko, Boesser...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I sed No....BUT I would say yes if he bailed on the NTC or what ever that crap is they put in there....and if he comes dirt cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 14 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: Have you compared their stats the last few years? Demers has been on teams where there are guys ahead of him on the PP (Burns, Vlasic, Klingberg, Goligoski). Whereas Hamhuis has been unable to secure a PP spot without any quality competition. What you can tell by watching is that he has twice the offensive ability of Hamhuis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Cousteau Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 33 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Why would they want 3 guys who aren't as good as Jones? I think that the conversation starts with, "I am holding your children at gunpoint...", and ends with, "fifty million dollars, ten years of first rounders, Horvat, Hutton, Demko, Boesser...." Raymond, Ballard and your first born child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Demers has been on teams where there are guys ahead of him on the PP (Burns, Vlasic, Klingberg, Goligoski). Whereas Hamhuis has been unable to secure a PP spot without any quality competition. What you can tell by watching is that he has twice the offensive ability of Hamhuis. You know each team has 2 PP units right? Demers has averaged about 20 minutes a game over the last 2 years, yet he's only averaged 24 points. 2 years ago Hamhuis scored 2 points less than Demers while playing 21 fewer games. Last year Demers scored 10 more points in 4 more games so I'll give the nod to Demers there but that doesn't make him worth more money plus at least twice the term. Can you tell I'm a stats guy? But beyond the stats, Dan is also an extremely solid defender, a leader in the dressing room and valued member of the community. Not saying Demers couldn't eventually become those things. But it's not a given. Dan Hamhuis is proven. We know he's a huge (positive) influence on our youth. So is it really worth spending more money and for much longer for a question mark in Demers just because he'll probably score a few more points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: You know each team has 2 PP units right? Demers has averaged about 20 minutes a game over the last 2 years, yet he's only averaged 24 points. 2 years ago Hamhuis scored 2 points less than Demers while playing 21 fewer games. Last year Demers scored 10 more points in 4 more games so I'll give the nod to Demers there but that doesn't make him worth more money plus at least twice the term. Can you tell I'm a stats guy? But beyond the stats, Dan is also an extremely solid defender, a leader in the dressing room and valued member of the community. Not saying Demers couldn't eventually become those things. But it's not a given. Dan Hamhuis is proven. We know he's a huge (positive) influence on our youth. So is it really worth spending more money and for much longer for a question mark in Demers just because he'll probably score a few more points? Yes, I can tell you don't watch a lot of hockey. So you think that picking up the scraps on the 2nd PP unit is comparable to getting all the prime minutes with the top players? Also....did you abandon your point and totally reverse your position with that last sentence? Cause the way to do that is to say, "okay, you're right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 37 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Why would they want 3 guys who aren't as good as Jones? I think that the conversation starts with, "I am holding your children at gunpoint...", and ends with, "fifty million dollars, ten years of first rounders, Horvat, Hutton, Demko, Boesser...." I agree that they won't trade Jones, I just threw those names out there as a starting point. There was some logic involved though. They just traded away their #1 C. Who knows if McCann will ever become 1C, the odds are against it but he could very well turn out to be a solid 2C, maybe higher?. Also, if they're going to trade Jones, they'll want a young D back. Personally, I have extremely high hopes for Tryamkin. He blew away all "realistic" expectations I had of him. I say "realistic" because I wasn't one of those people saying he's going to be the next Chara. However, after seeing him play this year, it is clear that he is/was further along in his development than Chara was at that age. So what's the going rate for a potential #1 D? Hard to put a price on that but potential #2 D, potential #2 C and Hansen who holds the value of a late 1st or early 2nd, is a good starting point. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 1 minute ago, VIC_CITY said: I agree that they won't trade Jones, I just threw those names out there as a starting point. There was some logic involved though. They just traded away their #1 C. Who knows if McCann will ever become 1C, the odds are against it but he could very well turn out to be a solid 2C, maybe higher?. Also, if they're going to trade Jones, they'll want a young D back. Personally, I have extremely high hopes for Tryamkin. He blew away all "realistic" expectations I had of him. I say "realistic" because I wasn't one of those people saying he's going to be the next Chara. However, after seeing him play this year, it is clear that he is/was further along in his development than Chara was at that age. So what's the going rate for a potential #1 D? Hard to put a price on that but potential #2 D, potential #2 C and Hansen who holds the value of a late 1st or early 2nd, is a good starting point. No? The going rate for potential is pretty minimal. The trade was Johanssen for Jones. Emergent #1 D for actual #1C. Nobody is going to pay for what you think a KHL guy is gonna be in 5 years. McCann is as much potential bust as a potential 2C. Everyone in the league knows that Hansen is just a great checker who scores when he plays with future hall of famers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 33 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Yes, I can tell you don't watch a lot of hockey. So you think that picking up the scraps on the 2nd PP unit is comparable to getting all the prime minutes with the top players? Also....did you abandon your point and totally reverse your position with that last sentence? Cause the way to do that is to say, "okay, you're right". To answer your 1st point, both players got just about equal opportunity and performed just about equally (offensively). 2nd point - I said that Demers has averaged 24 points a year the last 2 seasons and that Hamhuis had comparable stats. So I'm not sure what point I'm abandoning? Player "a" scores 'x" amount of points. Player "b" scores "x" + a few points. Wait for it.....player "a" and player "b" are comparable! So to my original point, asking why people are acting like Demers is some offensive saviour. The fact that he had better offensive guys ahead of him than Hamhuis is reason enough to spend a boatload of cash on him? Ya, I'll stick with Hamhuis thanks. The guy that's better defensively, more of a leader and significantly cheaper but just so happens to score a few points less. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 1 hour ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Why would they want 3 guys who aren't as good as Jones? I think that the conversation starts with, "I am holding your children at gunpoint...", and ends with, "fifty million dollars, ten years of first rounders, Horvat, Hutton, Demko, Boesser...." Thats why I think getting a 1st and a 3rd next draft (or 1,2 and 3) might be better than getting one of these guys. We'd have to offer up to 7 mil per year for that. Yes its a big gamble, but we wasted more than that with Prust, Higgy and Burr this year. We could probably recover a 2nd and 3rd for Edler as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 17 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: To answer your 1st point, both players got just about equal opportunity and performed just about equally (offensively). 2nd point - I said they Demers has averaged 24 points a year the last 2 seasons and that Hamhuis had comparable stats. So I'm not sure what point I'm abandoning? Player "a" scores 'x" amount of points. Player "b" scores "x" + a few points. Wait for it.....player "a" and player "b" are comparable! So to my original point, asking why people are acting like Demers is some offensive saviour. The fact that he had better offensive guys ahead of him than Hamhuis is reason enough to spend a boatload of cash on him? Ya, I'll stick with Hamhuis thanks. The guy that's better defensively, more of a leader and significantly cheaper but just so happens to score a few points less. Cheers! You just said, "Demers will probably get more points". But your original point was that Hamhuis would get the same. So, there's one big difference. The points happen to have been comparable, but that doesn't make the players' offensive skills comparable. I am talking about the way these guys handle the puck, get shots through, and work the offensive line. You are talking about assists without really looking at the context. No, they didn't get equal opportunity. Cumulative PP time is just an extrapolation....the fact is that when you get out for the last 30 seconds, with the inferior group, that's not that same as getting the first minute and a half with top players. The total time is the same because one guy is consistently on the 2nd unit, and the other was on and off the top unit over and over, because he sucked, but we had no other options. If you don't think Demers has more offensive acumen and more ability to help the PP, then I have to assume that you haven't been watching closely. There really isn't a lot of debate. If Hamhuis was even remotely good on the PP, he would be on it consistently. You are talking about worth in relation to salary, and I am just saying that one guy is twice as good at offense. Period. I'm not mixing in all the factors that you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOldOrca Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 On 2016-05-24 at 11:27 AM, SILLY GOOSE said: Call me crazy but I think Hamhuis will want another NTC with the Canucks on a short term deal, and 4 million/year is probably being optimistic. Not calling you crazy one little bit. That is exactly what I would like JB to do if its available to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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