2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[aGENT]

Just now, messier's_elbow said:

Setting yourself up for disappointment bro. Most likely the 5th pick in a weaker draft. Will be a good player, but if our pick turns out to be a good 2C that's a win in my eyes.

Past the top 2, it's not a weak draft. It's only considered 'weak' because there's no clear generational McDavid or even elite, clear #1 Mathews. Patrick/Hischier would probably go 2nd-4th in a 'better' draft.

 

All of Glass, Necas, Mittel, Suzuki have 1C upside/celings outside the top 2. Vilardi, while likely to be a good player and a safe pick, doesn't IMO. 

[messier's_elbow]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Past the top 2, it's not a weak draft. It's only considered 'weak' because there's no clear generational McDavid or even elite, clear #1 Mathews. Patrick/Hischier would probably go 2nd-4th in a 'better' draft.

 

All of Glass, Necas, Mittel, Suzuki have 1C upside/celings outside the top 2. Vilardi, while likely to be a good player and a safe pick, doesn't IMO. 

Well we will see who was right or wrong about Vilardi in a few years. When it's time for us to select our guy, most likely 4th or 5th pick,  I think he's a no brainer if he's still available.

[messier's_elbow]

1 hour ago, sharbinder said:

Canada lost 6-3 to Finland, Glass had no points.

However this Kristian Vesalainen fellow who has fallen throughout the year it putting up 6 goals/11 points in 4 games so far.

Also he only put up 1 less point in 4 more games than William Nylander in his draft year. Big body 6'3 209 lbs.

Probably 0 chance, but I'd love to get this guy with our 2nd rounder. 

[Luckylarry]

Just now, messier's_elbow said:

Probably 0 chance, but I'd love to get this guy with our 2nd rounder. 

do we know where we draft in round two, or is it set by the lotto results?

[aGENT]

Just now, messier's_elbow said:

Well we will see who was right or wrong about Vilardi in a few years. When it's time for us to select our guy, most likely 4th or 5th pick,  I think he's a no brainer if he's still available.

I don't think you're grasping my point.

 

Vilardi is a very good and safe pick.

 

He doesn't have the high upside of the others. He also doesn't carry anywhere near their risk of busting. If Necas busts in 4+ years and Vilardi is a solid 2C, that doesn't change the fact Necas, presently, has a higher ceiling.

 

There's many reasons players are ranked where they are. Not all earlier picks are more skilled. Lots of HIGHLY skilled players are ranked lower due to risk. It's not linear.

[messier's_elbow]

4 minutes ago, Luckylarry said:

do we know where we draft in round two, or is it set by the lotto results?

33rd puck I think? Just guessing.

[messier's_elbow]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I don't think you're grasping my point.

 

Vilardi is a very good and safe pick.

 

He doesn't have the high upside of the others. He also doesn't carry anywhere near their risk of busting. If Necas busts in 4+ years and Vilardi is a solid 2C, that doesn't change the fact Necas, presently, has a higher ceiling.

 

There's many reasons players are ranked where they are. Not all earlier picks are more skilled. Lots of HIGHLY skilled players are ranked lower due to risk. It's not linear.

I see what your saying, I just think Vilardis ceiling is just as high as some of the other guys. 1.20PPG roughly and one of the youngest guys in the draft at 6'3. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I don't think you're grasping my point.

 

Vilardi is a very good and safe pick.

 

He doesn't have the high upside of the others. He also doesn't carry anywhere near their risk of busting. If Necas busts in 4+ years and Vilardi is a solid 2C, that doesn't change the fact Necas, presently, has a higher ceiling.

 

There's many reasons players are ranked where they are. Not all earlier picks are more skilled. Lots of HIGHLY skilled players are ranked lower due to risk. It's not linear.

Yeah but ceiling is subjective to each individual ranking the player,  Just ask Kesler and Horvat what they think of projected ceilings. 

 

I don't know what more the kid could have done to show off how skilled he is.  He was the youngest player on his team and yet lead his team in points and goals, finishing the year with the team leading 1.24 ppg.   He put the same number of points up in his draft year as Horvat but doing it playing in 18 less games.  With the Spitfires hosting the memorial cup, it's only going to pump his stock even more. 

 

Everything about this kid screams like he's the real deal. He checks off all the boxes.  Top end hands, shot, IQ, and vision.  He can work on his acceleration but from everything I've read on him he's very determined and has a Bo like work ethic.
 

I see Vilardi's ceiling as a 1C and a bottoming out as a 2C, probably wont be a top 10 scorer, but definitely see him becoming a #1 center.

 

“A smart, playmaking, offensive producing centre who can not only make plays but can finish them as well. He has an ease to his play, both physically and mentally, that he combines with excellent skill to impact the game in every situation. He has all the elements to be a No. 1 offensive centre in the NHL.” - Craig Button

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yeah but ceiling is subjective to each individual ranking the player,  Just ask Kesler and Horvat what they think of projected ceilings. 

 

I don't know what more the kid could have done to show off how skilled he is.  He was the youngest player on his team and yet lead his team in points and goals, finishing the year with the team leading 1.24 ppg.   He put the same number of points up in his draft year as Horvat but doing it playing in 18 less games.  With the Spitfires hosting the memorial cup, it's only going to pump his stock even more. 

 

Everything about this kid screams like he's the real deal. He checks off all the boxes.  Top end hands, shot, IQ, and vision.  He can work on his acceleration but from everything I've read on him he's very determined and has a Bo like work ethic.
 

I see Vilardi's ceiling as a 1C and a bottoming out as a 2C, probably wont be a top 10 scorer, but definitely see him becoming a #1 center.

 

“A smart, playmaking, offensive producing centre who can not only make plays but can finish them as well. He has an ease to his play, both physically and mentally, that he combines with excellent skill to impact the game in every situation. He has all the elements to be a No. 1 offensive centre in the NHL.” - Craig Button

As I said, very good, very safe player. Won't be upset if we take him at 3-5. Won't be surprised if he slips to 6 or 7, or if he goes 3rd to another lucky team.  

 

I still put him in the same tier as Glass, Necas, Mittelstadt etc though and IMO there are higher ceiling/more dynamic players in that tier that I think the Canucks are aiming for. That doesn't mean I think he sucks, just that the Canucks might be aimimg for higher risk/reward.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

As I said, very good, very safe player. Won't be upset if we take him at 3-5. Won't be surprised if he slips to 6 or 7, or if he goes 3rd to another lucky team.  

 

I still put him in the same tier as Glass, Necas, Mittelstadt etc though and IMO there are higher ceiling/more dynamic players in that tier that I think the Canucks are aiming for. That doesn't mean I think he sucks, just that the Canucks might be aimimg for higher risk/reward.

I think the biggest issue to people confuse skill with flash.  He’s a team player before being an individual and that hurts him in the flash game.  Vilardi isn’t the most flashy player, he’s not going to get you out of your seat every time he touches the puck, but he’s skilled enough to know what to do with the puck, he got hands to beat players one on one and he’s also got the vision to find the open players.  He’s also got the tools to know what to do when he doesn’t have the puck.  I see a lot of Barkov in his game. 

 

Other than Patrick and Nico, I don’t see how anyone could say any other player in this draft has a higher ceiling than Vilardi, unless that ceiling is determined purely off point production.  Outside of Patrick and Nico, Vilardi has the best chance of being a top line forward in the NHL

[Scorevat]

2 hours ago, sharbinder said:

Canada lost 6-3 to Finland, Glass had no points.

However this Kristian Vesalainen fellow who has fallen throughout the year it putting up 6 goals/11 points in 4 games so far.

Also he only put up 1 less point in 4 more games than William Nylander in his draft year. Big body 6'3 209 lbs.

Vesa(laine)n? Must be good

[messier's_elbow]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think the biggest issue to people confuse skill with flash.  He’s a team player before being an individual and that hurts him in the flash game.  Vilardi isn’t the most flashy player, he’s not going to get you out of your seat every time he touches the puck, but he’s skilled enough to know what to do with the puck, he got hands to beat players one on one and he’s also got the vision to find the open players.  He’s also got the tools to know what to do when he doesn’t have the puck.  I see a lot of Barkov in his game. 

 

Other than Patrick and Nico, I don’t see how anyone could say any other player in this draft has a higher ceiling than Vilardi, unless that ceiling is determined purely off point production.  Outside of Patrick and Nico, Vilardi has the best chance of being a top line forward in the NHL

The memorial cup should be interesting. I bet he will be their best player during the tourny. 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think the biggest issue to people confuse skill with flash.  He’s a team player before being an individual and that hurts him in the flash game.  Vilardi isn’t the most flashy player, he’s not going to get you out of your seat every time he touches the puck, but he’s skilled enough to know what to do with the puck, he got hands to beat players one on one and he’s also got the vision to find the open players.  He’s also got the tools to know what to do when he doesn’t have the puck.  I see a lot of Barkov in his game. 

 

Other than Patrick and Nico, I don’t see how anyone could say any other player in this draft has a higher ceiling than Vilardi, unless that ceiling is determined purely off point production.  Outside of Patrick and Nico, Vilardi has the best chance of being a top line forward in the NHL

Best chance. AKA safe pick. I haven't disagreed with that in the slightest. He's a very good, safe, pick.

 

But especially  Mittelstadt, Necas and Suzuki, all have more offensive skills. They also carry more risk and lower chances of translating that skill to the NHL.

[funkyfresh]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Past the top 2, it's not a weak draft. It's only considered 'weak' because there's no clear generational McDavid or even elite, clear #1 Mathews. Patrick/Hischier would probably go 2nd-4th in a 'better' draft.

 

All of Glass, Necas, Mittel, Suzuki have 1C upside/celings outside the top 2. Vilardi, while likely to be a good player and a safe pick, doesn't IMO. 

Vilardi has the highest upside of anyone in the draft. Size, vision, ability to cycle and win board battles, and he's a pain to defend because he is so versatile and hard to knock off the puck. If he can improve his skating he will be a force. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, funkyfresh said:

Vilardi has the highest upside of anyone in the draft. Size, vision, ability to cycle and win board battles, and he's a pain to defend because he is so versatile and hard to knock off the puck. If he can improve his skating he will be a force. 

He has some of the best 'NHL-translatability'. Disagree he has the highest upside.

 

Hell Suzuki or one of the D could have the highest 'upside'.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Best chance. AKA safe pick. I haven't disagreed with that in the slightest. He's a very good, safe, pick.

 

But especially  Mittelstadt, Necas and Suzuki, all have more offensive skills. They also carry more risk and lower chances of translating that skill to the NHL.

But again you're placing offensive production as the determining factor for highest ceiling. Phil Kessel might have out produced Tavares but zero people would say Kessel is the better (higher ceiling) player. Building an NHL team isn't building a fantasy pool.  That's why GM's would take Toews before Kane every time. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by ForsbergTheGreat

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

But again you're placing offensive production as the determining factor for highest ceiling. Phil Kessel might have out produced Tavares but zero people would say Kessel is the better (higher ceiling) player. 

While that's a nice way to cherry pick players to suit your argument, no, that's not my only criteria.

 

I'm also considering the type of team we've built at present. We have a lot of solid, 2 way players and some high skilled wingers. We lack a high end, offensive C. Given that I think those players are all in the same tier, my money is on the Canucks picking one of the higher offensive ceiling guys.

 

Again, that doesn't mean I think they're 'better' or 'more likely to translate to the NHL'. It doesn't mean I think that's the order they'll actually get drafted, I'm not doing a mock. It means I put them roughly on par but with skill sets that more closely resemble what the Canucks need/want.

Edited April 18, 2017 by J.R.

[TheHitman]

Are we getting Columbus pick this year?

[aGENT]

Just now, TheHitman said:

Are we getting Columbus pick this year?

Likely but we don't know for certain for a while yet. June if I recall.

[TheHitman]

Just now, J.R. said:

Likely but we don't know for certain for a while yet. June if I recall.

IIRC Columbus gets to choose? Can't see a better option for them than now when they will probably be picking 59th.