Proposal [VAN-WIN VAN-NYI]

[bobby loocid dreamer]

2 trades that I think put us farther into the rebuild we should be in.

 

And both main pieces I am proposing moving have NTC, but assume they will waive for arguments sake.

 

To VAN:  Jacob Trouba

To WIN:  Alex Edler, Andrey Pedan

 

Why?  Trouba wants out of Winnipeg.  Winnipeg can't move him without getting back a top 4 defenseman to take his place.  Also, Winnipeg has big shortage of NHL D-men that are left handed.   With this trade, Edler fills out their top 4 and is a lefty.  Based on Trouba's age, we would need to add a B prospect like Andrey Pedan.

 

To VAN: Ryan Strome

To NYI: Jannik Hansen, Cole Cassels, 2018 2nd.

 

Why?  After Henrik, we have three third line centres.  None of Horvat Sutter or Granlund have the offensive skill to centre the top 2 lines.  And when Henrik retires its gonna be very ugly.  Hansen fills that middle six RW slot inchanging with Bailey.  Cassels is a solid prospect but projects as a bottom six C (which we have plenty of), and the 2018 2nd is necessary to land a former 5th overall pick at the age of 23.

 

 

 

Yes it is gonna be an ugly year or two but they were going to be ugly anyways- why not build.  2 young studs that are unhappy on their current team because they feel they are not getting a chance to play where they should be playing.  We are lacking top talent so they jump up the depth chart pretty quick on the Canucks.

 

 

Thoughts? 

[Nuckles80]

Trading a LD for a RD when we have Tanev and Gud makes no sense

We'd then have all three RD making 4-6 ml a year once Gud and Trouba (what he's asking for at least) re-sign

 

Tanev for Trouba straight up makes more sense

 

I think that's an overpayment for Strome. He's struggled mightily in his second year and was atrocious defensively. People look at his draft position vs production. I look at his production and tragectory. Still early to tell where he ends up but he didn't look like a player who is ready to turn it around at any point last year. A big risk in my view that he is on the cusp of busting.

[Monty]

Both are horrendous trades.

[Bur14Kes17]

Both under payments on out part. The Edler Pedan for Trouba isn't super far off. Adding a 2nd could get it done. but the Ryan Strome one would have us laughed out of the league. 

 

 

 

 

 

WHEN DOES YOUNG STARS BEGIN 

[Nuckles80]

2 minutes ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

Both under payments on out part. The Edler Pedan for Trouba isn't super far off. Adding a 2nd could get it done. but the Ryan Strome one would have us laughed out of the league. 

 

 

 

 

 

WHEN DOES YOUNG STARS BEGIN 

28 points in 71 games, -9, moved from 2c to 3c then wing, atrocious defensively and benched for numerous games - we'd be overpaying at this stage given the risk

 

Not sure if you were watching strome or dreaming of his hype in his draft year....he's regressed alot and could easily bust. Proof is not in your draft position, its in your performance. His performance says jury is out, one strong year, followed by an awful year, like awful, almost Cody Hodgson awful....

[bobby loocid dreamer]

Strome is a stud.  Being asked to play 3rd line RW when he is a top 6 C is akin to having Yakupov play 3rd line RW when he is a 1st line talent.  

 

You cant put someone in a position to fail and when they do call them a bust.  Give him an opportunity to play with like minded players in a role more suited for him (like they did in his rookie year) and you will see Strome is no bust.

 

 

 

And in response to Nuckles80- I think we need not worry about handedness when we are so far from being a competitive team.  Keeping a younger Tanev who will still be good when the Canucks are competitive is far more valuable.  For Winnipeg, they are extremely close to being a threat (goaltending is the question) in the playoffs and so handedness on the defense IS important to worry about.

[Ryanstorm]

I think you are offering too little in both trades.

[Bur14Kes17]

12 minutes ago, Nuckles80 said:

28 points in 71 games, -9, moved from 2c to 3c then wing, atrocious defensively and benched for numerous games - we'd be overpaying at this stage given the risk

 

Not sure if you were watching strome or dreaming of his hype in his draft year....he's regressed alot and could easily bust. Proof is not in your draft position, its in your performance. His performance says jury is out, one strong year, followed by an awful year, like awful, almost Cody Hodgson awful....

It's a case of a player not being placed in a position to succeed And I actually like the Hodgson comparison you make. I'm a firm believer that if Hodgson had stayed in Vancouver and as the 3rd line C instead of being such a little bitch, then he would have developed properly and Vancouver would be a lot like San Jose today with Centers comparable to Thornton Pavelski and Couture. Henrik Kesler Hodgson. 

[Nuckles80]

Just now, Bur14Kes17 said:

It's a case of a player not being placed in a position to succeed And I actually like the Hodgson comparison you make. I'm a firm believer that if Hodgson had stayed in Vancouver and as the 3rd line C instead of being such a little bitch, then he would have developed properly and Vancouver would be a lot like San Jose today with Centers comparable to Thornton Pavelski and Couture. Henrik Kesler Hodgson. 

Hodson is not in the same class as Couture so its a bit of a bad comparison but I get your point. Had Hodgson stayed he certainly would have developed better than in Buffalo no doubt, and it could have allowed him to carve out a career in the NHL but he still has major flaws to his game (skating obviously and his defensive positioning). By staying here perhaps he would have improved both enough to find a role as a 2nd C or perhaps not. The question would then be, how would he react on a mental level of no longer being in a scoring role.

His attitude is a big part of his problem. Look at Bo and Gaunce (and Guance is probably the better comparison as he was probably similar in terms of his skating deficiency, Bo was stronger from day 1). Both of those players have increased their footspeed through sheer effort - Hodgson, doesn't appear to have committed himself to that, and why not? Well he signed his 4.5 mil contract and thought he had it made. That shows his attitude, so I would challenge the argument that he would have been 'much' better had he stayed - in all probability, he may have ended up in the same place in the end, just maybe it may have taken a bit longer. Guance is an excellent comparison. Has adjusted his game, worked hard, and is doing everything to earn his spot and find a way...That's a personality thing not always physical or coaching/development (though those latter 2 play a role for sure).

 

As for Strome, he played 1/2 the year as the 2c, he was just awful defensively, that's why he was replaced and moved around, I would disagree he was miscast.

 

 

[ItsMillerTime]

1 hour ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

Both under payments on out part. The Edler Pedan for Trouba isn't super far off. Adding a 2nd could get it done. but the Ryan Strome one would have us laughed out of the league. 

 

 

 

 

 

WHEN DOES YOUNG STARS BEGIN 

Ryan Strome isn't as good as Hansen.

[Bur14Kes17]

21 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said:

Ryan Strome isn't as good as Hansen.

He's also just 23 and in his first full year put up 50pts in 81 games. Good lord have you people never heard of the sophomore slump????  Of course he's not as good as Hansen but he's also 7 years younger and already managed more points then Hansens career high. Anyone remember the Nathan Mackinnon sophomore slump?

[insomniac604]

The other teams won't go for this whatsoever. lol

 

Edler is 30 with a history of injuries. No team rebuilding will want him. Especially for a young, capable Dman.

 

Ditto with NYI. Why the hell would they take old Jannik, may-not-make-NHL Cole and a pick for a guy like Strome? 

Dude is teetering on 20 goals and I guarantee he will reach that next year. Hansen will be LUCKY if he gets another 20.

[Fanuck]

Both teams say no thanks to being ripped off by us.

[bobby loocid dreamer]

So the general consenus is that I would need to add pieces on the Vancouver side to both trades.  Fair enough.

 

Insomniac604 asked why the rebuilding Winnipeg would want Edler.  I look at their roster and don't believe they are rebuilding.  They were a playoff team with horrendous goaltending.  Add Laine and Kyle Connor up front and get some slightly better than average goaltending (big improvement from what they had) and they will be scary.  I would take them to win the Pacific but top 3 in the Central is doable.

 

So if it takes more to land Trouba then how about:

 

To VAN:  Trouba

To WIN:  Edler, Pedan, 2018 3rd.  

 

I understand a 3rd has limited value but Trouba is a hold out threat so landing a top 4 defenseman on a good contract for 3 more prime years is not a bad return.  Edler has more experiece, shown more offense, and does his job well.

[bobby loocid dreamer]

What do you think it would take to land Ryan Strome?

 

Current offer:

 

To VAN:  Ryan Strome

To NYI:  Hansen, Cassels, 2018 2nd

 

Hansen is a solid player on a cap friendly contract.  Cassels is a B prospect and the 2018 2nd will likely be 31-35 OA.

 

There is a very divided opinion of Strome.  Some see a young star with top line talent like his rookie year and some see someone who struggled on both sides of the puck and was a liability wherever he was placed in the lineup like his sophmore season.

 

I tend to believe he is a top line talent but he is currently without a contract (the only Islander without a contract for the last 7 weeks- reminder- the signed Cizikas to a big raise mid season when they had no pressure to do so... im sure that makes Strome's camp not too happy).   Hansen essentially replaces Strome on the RW in the 2 or 3 line but can play top line in a pinch.  He is signed to a nice cap hit.  He can skate and wont bog down Tavares or Bailey or Barzal.  And he is defensively sound.  This is the kind of move that moves them closer to the Stanley Cup.  AND, they land a very early 2nd round pick and B Prospect.

 

I don't think the value is too far off.  Can't pay for potential after a bad sophmore slump.  Islanders wont sell him at sophmore slump value.  I think this is pretty close to the value it would take.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, bobby loocid dreamer said:

What do you think it would take to land Ryan Strome?

 

Current offer:

 

To VAN:  Ryan Strome

To NYI:  Hansen, Cassels, 2018 2nd

 

Hansen is a solid player on a cap friendly contract.  Cassels is a B prospect and the 2018 2nd will likely be 31-35 OA.

 

There is a very divided opinion of Strome.  Some see a young star with top line talent like his rookie year and some see someone who struggled on both sides of the puck and was a liability wherever he was placed in the lineup like his sophmore season.

 

I tend to believe he is a top line talent but he is currently without a contract (the only Islander without a contract for the last 7 weeks- reminder- the signed Cizikas to a big raise mid season when they had no pressure to do so... im sure that makes Strome's camp not too happy).   Hansen essentially replaces Strome on the RW in the 2 or 3 line but can play top line in a pinch.  He is signed to a nice cap hit.  He can skate and wont bog down Tavares or Bailey or Barzal.  And he is defensively sound.  This is the kind of move that moves them closer to the Stanley Cup.  AND, they land a very early 2nd round pick and B Prospect.

 

I don't think the value is too far off.  Can't pay for potential after a bad sophmore slump.  Islanders wont sell him at sophmore slump value.  I think this is pretty close to the value it would take.

 

 

 

I think Strome would cost A LOT more in trade.  On top of that, IMHAO, he's not that good, and we don't want him anyway.  So, high cost, for a guy who is not really an upgrade.  To get one of these young guys for our top six, we will need to trade Tanev.

[ItsMillerTime]

12 hours ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

He's also just 23 and in his first full year put up 50pts in 81 games. Good lord have you people never heard of the sophomore slump????  Of course he's not as good as Hansen but he's also 7 years younger and already managed more points then Hansens career high. Anyone remember the Nathan Mackinnon sophomore slump?

I just don't like him.  If you watched any Islanders games everyone was better than him.

[Monty]

4 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said:

I just don't like him.  If you watched any Islanders games everyone was better than him.

Nik Kulemin says, "Hi!"

[Bur14Kes17]

38 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said:

I just don't like him.  If you watched any Islanders games everyone was better than him.

Hahaha ok I understand that. We all have those players