HorvatToBaertschi Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Ho ho... Didn't no one notice the horrendeus style of play Green adapted? Dump the puck and leave the goalie and maybe one defender for themselves when the counterattack came? Only the best of the best defenders/goalies can handle those situations when playing against the best. By the way, Pouliot was only - 1 last season. How did he manage that if he was so bad as people say he was? +/- is a terrible stat without interpretation and analysis of other data. Pouliot was a trainwreck in his zone, it's just the way it is. There were bright flashes at times in the offensive zone for sure, but clearly it wasn't enough. Why would we be upset though? We upgraded from Pouliot to Hughes.... Edited September 9, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: +/- is a terrible stat without interpretation and analysis of other data. Pouliot was a trainwreck in his zone, it's just the way it is. There were bright flashes at times in the offensive zone for sure, but clearly it wasn't enough. Why would we be upset though? We upgraded from Pouliot to Hughes.... Definately an upgrade... But Pouliot don't deserve the aftermath. He was put in an impossible situation by Green and fans only see Pouliots part on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Definately an upgrade... But Pouliot don't deserve the aftermath. He was put in an impossible situation by Green and fans only see Pouliots part on the ice. Green played the players Benning had to offer. Benning inherited a steaming pile of crap from the Gillis era. We can play the blame game all we want, we have marginal players that have the motor and drive to stick, and Pouliot didn't. I won't cry for a millionaire living out his dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Definately an upgrade... But Pouliot don't deserve the aftermath. He was put in an impossible situation by Green and fans only see Pouliots part on the ice. Given that Pouliot went from a $1.1M one-way contract to a $700k two-way contract with St. Louis, I'd suspect that other teams also felt that his play was lacking. After a look into his "moderately advanced" statistics, he's definitely not good, but not as bad as I would've expected. I suspect he probably suffered from the "Edler" or "Sbisa" effect where one has many egregious giveaways that over-inflate how bad a defenseman looks defensively because a few horrible plays stick out in the minds of viewers (Jake Gardiner also suffers from this). However, in Edler's case, he wasn't actually that bad, whereas Pouliot was just "bad" instead of "mind-bendingly atrocious", as it appeared he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: Green played the players Benning had to offer. Benning inherited a steaming pile of crap from the Gillis era. We can play the blame game all we want, we have marginal players that have the motor and drive to stick, and Pouliot didn't. I won't cry for a millionaire living out his dream. Well, Green is the coach and should adapt a system suitable to the players at hand. If Pouliot, Gudbranson et al is so bad, why leave them in situations they couldn't handle? The coach usually adapt a more defensive play if they lack skill but have a motor. And what have the millionare thing with anything to do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Given that Pouliot went from a $1.1M one-way contract to a $700k two-way contract with St. Louis, I'd suspect that other teams also felt that his play was lacking. After a look into his "moderately advanced" statistics, he's definitely not good, but not as bad as I would've expected. I suspect he probably suffered from the "Edler" or "Sbisa" effect where one has many egregious giveaways that over-inflate how bad a defenseman looks defensively because a few horrible plays stick out in the minds of viewers (Jake Gardiner also suffers from this). However, in Edler's case, he wasn't actually that bad, whereas Pouliot was just "bad" instead of "mind-bendingly atrocious", as it appeared he was. If Pouliot had Benn behing him I truly believe fans would look at him differantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, -AJ- said: Given that Pouliot went from a $1.1M one-way contract to a $700k two-way contract with St. Louis, I'd suspect that other teams also felt that his play was lacking. After a look into his "moderately advanced" statistics, he's definitely not good, but not as bad as I would've expected. I suspect he probably suffered from the "Edler" or "Sbisa" effect where one has many egregious giveaways that over-inflate how bad a defenseman looks defensively because a few horrible plays stick out in the minds of viewers (Jake Gardiner also suffers from this). However, in Edler's case, he wasn't actually that bad, whereas Pouliot was just "bad" instead of "mind-bendingly atrocious", as it appeared he was. Actually advance stats showed he’s was one of our better defensemen (min: 50 games played). Corsi at an even 50%, which was second on the team, with only 52% offensive zone start time. His on-ice save percentage was a moderate .91 (third amongst defensemen). While his defensive points shared was a respectable 2.6 (3rd amongst our defensemen). Obviously, these stats could be a bit skewed by playing against lower competition. However, he did play a lot of top 4 minutes earlier in the season with Edler and Tanev being out. I don’t think the Pouliot hate wasn’t really warranted. Was it his fault that he was put in a position to play way above over his head, with our injuries? Some players flourish and some don’t. Pouliot just happed to fall in the latter category. He looked perfectly fine playing on the 3rd pairing with Gudbranson and Biega. Edited September 9, 2019 by shiznak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Timråfan said: Well, Green is the coach and should adapt a system suitable to the players at hand. If Pouliot, Gudbranson et al is so bad, why leave them in situations they couldn't handle? The coach usually adapt a more defensive play if they lack skill but have a motor. And what have the millionare thing with anything to do? Pouliot’s misfortune isn’t related whatsoever to Green. He had issues in Pittsburgh and was traded to us for nothing. There’s a reason there. Pouliot has been riding the fact he was a junior elite player and was a first round pick and has since then grown at a disappointing rate. Green played Pouliot and gave him a lot of opportunities, and he didn’t seize them. It’s too bad. The millionaire thing comes in when you defended him saying he doesn’t deserve the aftermath when it was strictly based off his terrible play for us during his entire tenure. I rooted for him for a long time and I wish him well, but we’re much better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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