[Discussion] Signing Gardiner and Myers would allow the Canucks to trade from a position of strength

[tiny]

I would not trade hutton for a late first round pick this guy plays 25min a game.

Its hard to win games when you cant score 

[Hindustan Smyl]

1 hour ago, tiny said:

I would not trade hutton for a late first round pick this guy plays 25min a game.

Its hard to win games when you cant score 

Very true.   I’m not really sure I would either.  I’m just trying to “think out loud” and explore different options and ideas.    

 

As far as Hutton goes, given that

 

1) The Canucks could use some more draft picks.

2) With Edler, Hughes, and possibly one or both of Juolevi or Tryamkin coming up/back one day, the Canucks will likely have a bit of a lockjam on the left side anyways.

 

Perhaps the Canucks could consider moving Hutton while his value is relatively high.  

 

Here’s my other thing with Hutton.....and I might be wrong about this:  As an outsider looking in,  I’m not completely sure if Hutton does any particular ONE thing extremely well. He’s a decent all-around dman, but.....

 

1) He’s not the greatest PK’er

2) He’s decent, but not exceptional defensively.

3) He’s a decent puck mover but not exceptional at this.  

 

I have nothing against Hutton, and actually like him (and commend him for improving so much this year), but IF the Canucks are looking to make a change to their D, then perhaps Hutton is one of the guys that you start with (again, I’m just spitballing here........no idea if I’m right or wrong here).

 

The Hindustan’s action plan

 

1) Trade the 2019 1st to Ottawa, along with Eriksson, Schaller, and Sutter, for a fringe NHL’er or a late round pick.  The idea of this  would be to clear massive cap space (about 12 million in cap space would be cleared here).

 

2) Trade Hutton in the draft for a high 2nd round pick (late 1st might be asking too much)

 

3) Sign Gardiner and Myers.  Yes - Gardiner is defensively terrible and YES....Myers is slow and may not be a “modern” defenseman.....and YES....In terms of being good 2nd pairing dmen, perhaps both guys would leave a lot to be desired.  Here’s my line of thinking though:  Gardiner and Myers would by the best 3rd pairing D in the league, and could EASILY fill in on the top 4 Incase of injuries.  Essentially, we’d be paying Myers and Gardiner as an insurance against injuries.....which has arguably been the biggest reason why we haven’t been a playoff team since 2015.........constant injuries to the defense which in effect, caused us to play 6th and 7th caliber dmen to play on the top 4.  With Gardiner and Myers here, we wouldn’t have this problem.

 

4) Re-up Edler for two years.

 

5) Bye bye Goldobin, Granlund, Gaunce, etc. possibly even Schenn....although I do like Schenn.

 

####-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-####

Leivo-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-Motte

 

[Baertschi/Spooner = ####.  I list them as ####, because my hope is that the Canucks can move these guys, and replace them with better players].

 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Gardiner-Myers

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

5) Woo eventually replaces Tanev

6) One of Tryamkin or Juolevi eventually replaces Edler.   The odd man out gets traded for help up front.

7) As mentioned earlier, we eventually upgrade on Baertschi and Spooner up front.

 

Conclusion:  I think the above line-up gets us into the playoffs next year, while still giving us enough cap space to comfortably re-up our upcoming RFA core over the coming years (Boeser/this year, Pettersson, and Hughes).  We would have a legit succession plan in place in terms of replacing Edler and Tanev, while guys like Baertschi and Spooner can eventually be replaced with better players.

 

 

 

[Dats hockey]

It’s either Erik Karlsson or The Breadman for me and if we can’t get those just keep building through the draft

[Hindustan Smyl]

Ignoring the contracts, I have a question to ask people on here:

 

1) Are both Jake Gardiner and Tyler Myers better than atleast 2 of our current top 6 dmen?

 

2) Rate the following dmen from best to worst:

 

(I will list at random)

 

-Hutton

-Stecher

-Gardiner

-Myers

-Edler

-Tanev

-Hughes

-Schenn

 

 

[BarnBurner]

I wouldn't want either one of Myers or Gardiner. Nor Karlsson. 

 

I'd rather slow down on the moves and see what we have next year.

 

Plus, I don't want to tie up so much money in potential crap contracts that you'll regret for years. 

 

Keep the money available for Brock, Pettersson and Hughes. (and whoever else is highly qualified draft prospect) 

 

The problem is, too many people have an instant gratification mindset, and it's detrimental to your psychological health. 

 

 

[captaincowbasher]

On 3/31/2019 at 9:16 AM, Hindustan Smyl said:

[discussion]  Signing Gardiner and Myers would allow the Canucks to trade from a position of strength

 

This is an extension to a previous thread of mine, but I really think a co-signing of Gardiner and Myers would make a lot of sense.  

 

Here’s my line of thought:

 

1) Very deep defense with the signings of Gardiner and Myers.   Having Edler, Tanev, Gardiner, Myers, Hughes, and Stecher would give us defensive depth comparable to our Presidents Trophy winning days.

 

2) Trading from a position of strength.  With Gardiner and Myers here, you could move Hutton for either a draft pick or some help up front.   Think about it.  If Gudbranson lands you Pearson, and Larsson lands Taylor Hall, then surely, a guy like Hutton could land a pretty decent forward right?  (Or perhaps a late   1st round pick).  

 

3)  Less injuries with more balanced ice time?  Edler, Tanev, Myers, and Gardiner are injury prone, but would they be as injury prone if they balanced their ice time?  With Gardiner and Myers here, Edler and Tanev wouldn’t have to overexerted.    

 

4) Internal competition + trading from a position of strength.   With Edler, Tanev, Gardiner, Myers, Hughes, and Stecher all here, you would create more internal competition.   Who can replace Edler and Tanev when their days are up?   You’d have all of Juolevi, Tryamkin, Woo, and others all gunning for those two spots that would be open once Edler and Tanev inevitably move on.......or perhaps internal competition would force the Canucks to move Tanev (which would now be safe and possible due to our newfound depth).  Or maybe Stecher gets bumped?

 

The bottom line here is that newfound depth + internal competition could lead to us being able to trade from a position of strength.  Defenseman are always coveted and so teams would be looking to deal with us.

 

Sign Gardiner and Myers and use the new found depth to not only insure yourself against injuries, but to also potentially trade from a position of strength (ie draft picks, forwards, etc).

Yes to Gardiner, no to Myers, and walk away from Edler. Trade for for Trouba and E.Kane. 

[captaincowbasher]

On 4/20/2019 at 9:51 PM, Hindustan Smyl said:

Ignoring the contracts, I have a question to ask people on here:

 

1) Are both Jake Gardiner and Tyler Myers better than atleast 2 of our current top 6 dmen?

 

2) Rate the following dmen from best to worst:

 

(I will list at random)

 

-Hutton

-Stecher

-Gardiner

-Myers

-Edler

-Tanev

-Hughes

-Schenn

 

 

Hughes

Tanev

Gardiner

Hutton

Stecher

Edler

Myers

Schenn

[Hindustan Smyl]

On 4/22/2019 at 3:02 AM, BarnBurner said:

I wouldn't want either one of Myers or Gardiner. Nor Karlsson. 

 

I'd rather slow down on the moves and see what we have next year.

 

Plus, I don't want to tie up so much money in potential crap contracts that you'll regret for years. 

 

Keep the money available for Brock, Pettersson and Hughes. (and whoever else is highly qualified draft prospect) 

 

The problem is, too many people have an instant gratification mindset, and it's detrimental to your psychological health. 

 

 

Fair enough points, but here are my thoughts:

 

1) I think it depends on HOW and WHY we’d be signing both Gardiner and Myers.  If we look at from the perspective that both Gardiner and Myers can be VERY GOOD 2nd pairing dmen that could fill in on a first pairing Incase of injuries, then I think we’d be sorely disappointed.  HOWEVER - if we look at their signings as a protection against injuries to the D, along with guaranteeing that the Canucks would have five to six defensemen that would be good enough to fill in one the top 4 Incase of injuries, then I think a double signing of Gardiner and Myers would be terrific.

 

A major weakness of the Canucks since 2014, has been their severe drop off in depth and talent on the D after the top 2-3 guys.  Hence - the Canucks would often free fall if they had 1-2 key injuries to their D......and these 1-2 key injuries were often to Edler and Tanev due to them being overworked.  

 

I propose the following:

 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Gardiner-Myers

 

Sautner-Schenn

 

with balanced ice-time.  No one defenseman is over-exerted, and everyone stays healthy.  Sautner and Schenn not only draw-in when there are injuries, but also draw-in to the line-up at times to give some defensemen “maintenance days.”

 

The biggest reason why the Canucks have missed the playoffs these past few years has been because of injuries (and subsequent lack of depth) to the defense.  A double signing of Gardiner and Myers would help solve that.

 

Gardiner is no Erik Karlsson, but he does specialize in moving the puck up ice.  He’s also a guy that could our 2nd PP until.  

 

Myers would obviously bring some toughness and physicality to the back-end.

 

Last but not least, the Canucks could finally start trading from their new found strength.

 

Hutton could be moved for a draft pick, while guys like Edler and Tanev could be moved once guys like Juolevi, Woo, and Tryamkin are ready to step into the line-up (or returning to the line-up).   The only difference now, is that the Canucks wouldn’t have to worry about severely hampering the team with a Tanev trade.  They would have enough depth to support such a move.