Future Cap Issues (Discussion)

[48MPHSlapShot]

7 minutes ago, the grinder said:

  so st louis was bad for a few years do you know when st louis drafted most of their players on the cup team  ? 2010 Schwartz and taresenko 2011  rattie edmundson jaskin and binninghton  nothing for 3 years  2014 fabri and barbasheve 2015 dunn   so st louis didn't win a cup over night   it took 9 years to build a Stanley cup team   hmmmm same length as JBs contract now hmmmm 

If you backtrack further than Benning, the trend still applies. This isn't merely an indictment of Benning, but rather on the development team going back nearly a decade and a half.

 

That said, I don't think there's been a significant upswing in the development of our lesser prospects since Benning took over. It'd make me feel a lot better about things if we saw a bit more forward development in some of them, or if a couple of them could crack the lineup and actually stick, but to this point the only players we've had that have made the jump and stuck are prospects that arrived ready and goaltenders.  Point is that it's a trend that hasn't righted itself yet. We have to start seeing some of these later rd prospects develop and make some forward momentum. We need a Bieksa. We need and Edler. We need a Hansen. We need some later rd players that we can be confident will make the jump so we don't have to constantly overpay for free agents, so we don't get into any more trouble than we're already in, and I can't say I'm overly confident in many of our later rd picks right now. 

[the grinder]

39 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

If you backtrack further than Benning, the trend still applies. This isn't merely an indictment of Benning, but rather on the development team going back nearly a decade and a half.

 

That said, I don't think there's been a significant upswing in the development of our lesser prospects since Benning took over. It'd make me feel a lot better about things if we saw a bit more forward development in some of them, or if a couple of them could crack the lineup and actually stick, but to this point the only players we've had that have made the jump and stuck are prospects that arrived ready and goaltenders.  Point is that it's a trend that hasn't righted itself yet. We have to start seeing some of these later rd prospects develop and make some forward momentum. We need a Bieksa. We need and Edler. We need a Hansen. We need some later rd players that we can be confident will make the jump so we don't have to constantly overpay for free agents, so we don't get into any more trouble than we're already in, and I can't say I'm overly confident in many of our later rd picks right now. 

yes it been going on since benning took over  but again   demko trymakin   gaudette  rathibone lockwood madden  woo hoglaner big zack  gads   that alone is better then last tens years  of drafting before benning   being gm     

[oldnews]

just follow the blueprint laid out in the #proper-rebuild.

 

no need to worry - the Shanaplan has blazed the trails of brilliance - just walk in the tracks of it

#s'allgood.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:08 AM, the grinder said:

yes it been going on since benning took over  but again   demko trymakin   gaudette  rathibone lockwood madden  woo hoglaner big zack  gads   that alone is better then last tens years  of drafting before benning   being gm     

Half of those are just names not in Canuck jersey's on game day.

 

Benning cap structure, so the Luongo thing is now blamed but he knew it could happen, but he didn't plan for it. Well how about the bonuses he has signed, does anyone ever think of those? Just about 4 million in performance bonuses. What is the plan to deal with those? It seems that this organization is purely reactionary and not much planning for the next day let alone the next year. Just let the media or media lackeys find an excuse to blame something from 7 years ago. And I thought Gotti was the teflon man, Benning seems to surpass him.

[the grinder]

15 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Half of those are just names not in Canuck jersey's on game day.

 

Benning cap structure, so the Luongo thing is now blamed but he knew it could happen, but he didn't plan for it. Well how about the bonuses he has signed, does anyone ever think of those? Just about 4 million in performance bonuses. What is the plan to deal with those? It seems that this organization is purely reactionary and not much planning for the next day let alone the next year. Just let the media or media lackeys find an excuse to blame something from 7 years ago. And I thought Gotti was the teflon man, Benning seems to surpass him.

yep just like gillis draft picks  how many actually even played a game  scheinder traded for Horvat  grabner  hodgson  nick Jensen shroeder ,  lol   planning for the next day? lmao  did gillis plan for the next day ?  hell no   if he did   why is there a lounge cap hit then  ?  I would say that was planning for then not 5 years past his firing .  you just shot yourself in the foot  with that comment .  you approve one gm for screwing the team for ten years and then in the same sentence your screamimg bloody murder for something that  the gm can still fix  lol

 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

15 minutes ago, the grinder said:

yep just like gillis draft picks  how many actually even played a game  scheinder traded for Horvat  grabner  hodgson  nick Jensen shroeder ,  lol   planning for the next day? lmao  did gillis plan for the next day ?  hell no   if he did   why is there a lounge cap hit then  ?  I would say that was planning for then not 5 years past his firing .  you just shot yourself in the foot  with that comment .  you approve one gm for screwing the team for ten years and then in the same sentence your screamimg bloody murder for something that  the gm can still fix  lol

 

Gillis and his record with Benning and his record in the same breath, interesting. You do realize that there is not a GM in the league in the last 20 years that has as bad a Benning's record right? A hockey generation is around 4 years, Benning has had close to two generations. Gillis scored on ALL his top ten picks, Benning is running around 50%, He got really lucky with Boeser falling into his lap but Boeser wasn't ranked like #50 and he went off the board, he was ranked #25, right where he was taken.

 

How many of Benning traded 2nd round picks are on the team? Gillis's all played over 200 games in the NHL

 

In hindsight you can see that Gillis had staggered his contracts so he had close to 10 million coming off the books each year, Benning had over 13 million in capspace when he got the job, he hasn't come close since, capped out every year, can't make trades, can't take on bad contracts for more draft picks, etc.. What if Miller gets ANOTHER concussion, his fourth and can't play? There goes a first round pick.

 

Whatever Benning is still here, it appears the disaster of the cap remains, appears he signs MORE bloated clause contracts than Gillis,

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[the grinder]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Gillis and his record with Benning and his record in the same breath, interesting. You do realize that there is not a GM in the league in the last 20 years that has as bad a Benning's record right? A hockey generation is around 4 years, Benning has had close to two generations. Gillis scored on ALL his top ten picks, Benning is running around 50%, He got really lucky with Boeser falling into his lap but Boeser wasn't ranked like #50 and he went off the board, he was ranked #25, right where he was taken.

 

How many of Benning traded 2nd round picks are on the team? Gillis's all played over 200 games in the NHL

 

In hindsight you can see that Gillis had staggered his contracts so he had close to 10 million coming off the books each year, Benning had over 13 million in capspace when he got the job, he hasn't come close since, capped out every year, can't make trades, can't take on bad contracts for more draft picks, etc.. What if Miller gets ANOTHER concussion, his fourth and can't play? There goes a first round pick.

 

Whatever Benning is still here, it appears the disaster of the cap remains, appears he signs MORE bloated clause contracts than Gillis,

 

 

lol   ya 13 million in cap space an aging core loaded with ntc kesler wanting out , loungo not happy( plus lets not forget the contract) , not one prospect in the pool except Horvat , ownership wanting to make the playoffs  and no coach ,  that's what Benning gets to start with. , what did mike gillis start with?  a team on the rise and then had to add a few parts  lol here is a story on mikey g stellar drafting record https://canucksarmy.com/2017/02/01/time-has-made-mike-gillis-draft-record-look-better-but-it-s-still-bad/

 

yes a rebuilding team would have a bad record lol  Every team sucks for 2 -3 years for rebuilding (unless your Edmonton )  , we also have had zero lottery luck what so ever but we still managed to get talent for rebuilding  , I like how you say benning is 50% on his picks 4 out of 6 have played nhl games except olli and podi  ,  how is drating 23rd overall falling into you lap ?  your complaining about drafting a 25 goal scorer in boesser ?   

 

every post you make  you mention a 1st round pick,  he made a trade  so don't say he doesn't make trades  , any player can get injured at anytime ( complaing about nothing again)   got a versatile top 6 forward  in miller   ,  

 

so  now bennings  team  is trending upwards  , the record will be better and you will still be unhappy  no matter what the outcome is  

[48MPHSlapShot]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:08 PM, the grinder said:

yes it been going on since benning took over  but again   demko trymakin   gaudette  rathibone lockwood madden  woo hoglaner big zack  gads   that alone is better then last tens years  of drafting before benning   being gm     

Again, I'm talking about the development just as much as I'm talking about drafting. We already had some pretty decent prospects in the org when Benning took over. Jensen, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Subban, Grenier, Fox, etc etc etc. Not world beaters by any stretch, but there was already a pool in place, and under Benning's watch, none of the players mentioned amounted to anything. It's certainly easy enough to just say "Well, they weren't good enough" and write them all off, but considering the alarming trend of poor development was already noticeable at that point, and is still pretty apparent to this day, I think it stands to reason that the group of prospects that were inherited by this regime may not have been developed with the necessary care. 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

1 hour ago, the grinder said:

lol   ya 13 million in cap space an aging core loaded with ntc kesler wanting out , loungo not happy( plus lets not forget the contract) , not one prospect in the pool except Horvat , ownership wanting to make the playoffs  and no coach ,  that's what Benning gets to start with. , what did mike gillis start with?  a team on the rise and then had to add a few parts  lol here is a story on mikey g stellar drafting record https://canucksarmy.com/2017/02/01/time-has-made-mike-gillis-draft-record-look-better-but-it-s-still-bad/

 

yes a rebuilding team would have a bad record lol  Every team sucks for 2 -3 years for rebuilding (unless your Edmonton )  , we also have had zero lottery luck what so ever but we still managed to get talent for rebuilding  , I like how you say benning is 50% on his picks 4 out of 6 have played nhl games except olli and podi  ,  how is drating 23rd overall falling into you lap ?  your complaining about drafting a 25 goal scorer in boesser ?   

 

every post you make  you mention a 1st round pick,  he made a trade  so don't say he doesn't make trades  , any player can get injured at anytime ( complaing about nothing again)   got a versatile top 6 forward  in miller   ,  

 

so  now bennings  team  is trending upwards  , the record will be better and you will still be unhappy  no matter what the outcome is  

13 million Benning wasted on "getting younger because the core was getting old" which he spent......guess what....signing even older players. Traded away ....how many 2nd round picks, now to get this straight they were closer to very late first rounders like #33 close to Gillis's #29 first round picks, Kesler was under contract, he didn't have a opt out clause, if he wanted out they could have dealt him wherever or not at all and waited until the trade deadline. Torts, was a good coach, he stuck up for his players like when he went down the dressing room when the Calgary coach sent out all his goon squad to start a game AFTER he found out that Alberts career was over, the Canucks didn't have the horses for a proper retribution and the coaches praise of the hit was slimy. The NHL didn't do anything, the refs didn't do anything at least he felt enough passion to try to step up himself. BTW, his tenure at coach, his single season saw more "core" players injured and more injuries than since then AND he had the compressed NHL schedule with limited practice, almost none. Gillis had a middle of the road team, not good enough to win in the playoffs and too good to get top draft picks. Gillis did inherit Luongo though. Gillis also got most of the team to take 1 to 2 million dollar discounts, think of the Sedins, 7 mil per when players of thier point totals were getting 8 to 10 mil. Benning pays 6 mil for 30 point guys, gives out clause contracts with bloated paychecks to declining players at the end of their careers.

 

50% of his 1rst round picks are quality of their pick #, Jake and Olli are far from that quality, those are considered blown picks, Pettersson is an outstanding pick and Hughes could be in that category as well.

 

No complaints about Boeser, but he was BPA at #25, a no brainer, now if he was ranked in the late 50's and Benning took at 25 then that would be genius.

Benning's team can go in which direction? They are the worst team over the last 4 years in the league, only Buffalo is close, Arizona distanced themselves.

 

CBA word out is stagnation. NHL is putting the pressure on the NHLPA to be the bad guys now and cause a stoppage.

[the grinder]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Again, I'm talking about the development just as much as I'm talking about drafting. We already had some pretty decent prospects in the org when Benning took over. Jensen, Corrado, Shinkaruk, Cassels, Subban, Grenier, Fox, etc etc etc. Not world beaters by any stretch, but there was already a pool in place, and under Benning's watch, none of the players mentioned amounted to anything. It's certainly easy enough to just say "Well, they weren't good enough" and write them all off, but considering the alarming trend of poor development was already noticeable at that point, and is still pretty apparent to this day, I think it stands to reason that the group of prospects that were inherited by this regime may not have been developed with the necessary care. 

lol  there is no logic in your statement  what so ever  , Jensen traded to the rangers did s.f.a   corrado sent to Toronto how many games did he play?  the rest  didn't amount to anything  , all your precious 2 nd round picks  that amounted to diddly squat  that gillis drafted  and your blaming benning for that  lmao   demko and trymakin easily make up for that lot  , even gustav forsling played more games that the lot you listed .

 

just because a player is drafted doesn't mean he will ever make to the nhl  it is the cold hard facts of the nhl    example look a gaunce  he has been giving chance after chance he just cant cut it  in the nhl ,  1st rounder  

[48MPHSlapShot]

22 minutes ago, the grinder said:

lol  there is no logic in your statement  what so ever  , Jensen traded to the rangers did s.f.a   corrado sent to Toronto how many games did he play?  the rest  didn't amount to anything  , all your precious 2 nd round picks  that amounted to diddly squat  that gillis drafted  and your blaming benning for that  lmao   demko and trymakin easily make up for that lot  , even gustav forsling played more games that the lot you listed .

 

just because a player is drafted doesn't mean he will ever make to the nhl  it is the cold hard facts of the nhl    example look a gaunce  he has been giving chance after chance he just cant cut it  in the nhl ,  1st rounder  

Jensen and Corrado had already gone through development in this organization by the time they were moved, and like I said, it's easy to write all of these guys off as "not good enough", but the truth is we don't know how they would have developed in different organizations. What we do know is that our track record when it comes to developing prospects has been pretty piss poor, especially when it comes to our farm system, a system where virtually nobody that isn't a goalie has developed into a legit NHLer in nearly a decade and a half. 

[the grinder]

42 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Jensen and Corrado had already gone through development in this organization by the time they were moved, and like I said, it's easy to write all of these guys off as "not good enough", but the truth is we don't know how they would have developed in different organizations. What we do know is that our track record when it comes to developing prospects has been pretty piss poor, especially when it comes to our farm system, a system where virtually nobody that isn't a goalie has developed into a legit NHLer in nearly a decade and a half. 

you either have it or you don't  as a player   and again  you need to realize prospects develop else where  . where it be college or overseas  ,