[Discussion] Schmidt trade and return.

[Provost]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Fans and media suggesting that we move Schmidt and Miller do not understand management’s plan in my opinion:

Well I would respectively submit that we do understand management’s “plan”... we just think it is a terrible one and badly executed as well.

 

Anyone still thinking this was some grand scheme are delusional in my opinion.  We have stumbled from reactionary misstep to reactionary misstep.  There is no evidence to believe those mistakes will magically just stop happening.

 

By Benning’s own admission we are two years before we start being competitive (he said that a couple of years ago... and also said it when he took over).  The reason Schmidt and Miller are topics of conversation is their age and years of club control.  We want guys just entering their prime when we are ready to compete... not guys on the back end of it.  You need a bunch of swings at bat to make deep runs in the playoffs.  That means we have to “hope” for a window from 2-6 years from now to be a contender.

 

We are also sick of watching assets fly out the window for nothing.  When has Benning traded a guy at near peak value?  Heck he couldn’t even trade Pearson and that was apparently a slam dunk at the deadline with lots of interest... and lots of replacement options in the offseason.

 

[Patel Bure]

22 minutes ago, Provost said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well I would respectively submit that we do understand management’s “plan”... we just think it is a terrible one and badly executed as well.

 

Well I would respectively submit that you don't.  No offense.

 

From Day One, management's plan has been as follows:

 

1) Prospects and young players on the team be insulated by veteran players that help the kids form good on-ice and off-ice habits.

2) Roster spots will be created for prospects/young kids that EARN their spots on the roster.

3) Prospects and young players will be pushed slowly, and will never be placed into roles that they are too 'green' for (not a pun).  

4) Competing hard night in and night out is important, and the presence of vets with proven intangibles will create that environment.  This was what was meant by 'compete for a playoff spot'

5) Playoff experience is an important part of player development - hence last season.  

 

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Anyone still thinking this was some grand scheme are delusional in my opinion.  There is no evidence to believe those mistakes will magically just stop happening.

So it's just coincidence that all of our overpaid/transitional contracts (sans Myers) will be off the books by next summer?  

 

It's not rocket science.  Teams that are perceived to be trending upwards will attract UFA's at more favourable term and money while teams that are perceived to be trending downwards will be the opposite.   

 

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By Benning’s own admission we are two years before we start being competitive (he said that a couple of years ago... and also said it when he took over).

 

When Benning first took over, Benning said something to the effect of "we think we can turn this around fairly quickly" because he was trying to give the vote of confidence to the old guard......a guard that had enjoyed many years of success prior to Benning arriving.  Had been openly said, "we will need to rebuild pretty soon," do you think that would have been a smart way to ingratiate yourself to the old guard/players in your first week?   It's called diplomacy.   When the Canucks lost to the Flames in 2015, significant changes were made.  From 2016-2019, Benning said that he wanted to field a team that "pushed hard for the playoffs" and "competed hard every night," and he was correct.  The media however, chose to misinterpret his words.  

 

Earlier this year, Benning accurately stated that the Canucks would likely be able to make a huge push starting in 2022 (which is different than 'pushing for the playoffs').  Benning believes that the Canucks will have a good chance of joining the elite ranks starting in October 2022 and he is correct.

 

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The reason Schmidt and Miller are topics of conversation is their age and years of club control.  We want guys just entering their prime when we are ready to compete... not guys on the back end of it.  You need a bunch of swings at bat to make deep runs in the playoffs.  That means we have to “hope” for a window from 2-6 years from now to be a contender.  We are also sick of watching assets fly out the window for nothing.  When has Benning traded a guy at near peak value?  Heck he couldn’t even trade Pearson and that was apparently a slam dunk at the deadline with lots of interest... and lots of replacement options in the offseason.

 

We will be ready to compete starting in October of 2022 and the contracts of Horvat, Miller and Schmidt will be excellent relative value.  Guys like Pettersson, Boeser, Demko, and Hughes will be more experienced, while guys like Rathbone, Juolevi, Podkolzin, and Hoglander will still be on ELC's or cost effective bridge deals.  It's amazing to me how the biggest critics of Benning and the Canucks took about 'asset bleeding' and assets flying out the window, and yet don't bring up the fact that we have had a relatively high number of prospects convert into NHL players.   

 

As much as people like you, the media, 650 sportsnet, and HF Canucks want to ignore the fact that we made the 2nd round last year, you can't just erase history.  

 

Progression isn't always linear.   Look at teams like Dallas and Philadelphia this year for instance.  Look at Winnipeg these past few seasons, or Edmonton after 2017.  

 

In fact, look at all of the current top elite teams in the league this year and show me one team that didn't have a "growing pains" period that lasted 6-9 years.  What has Carolina's journey been like since 2006?   What about Florida's these last 20 years?  Colorado since 2007?   Tampa since 2004?   Toronto since 2004?  Montreal Canadiens these last 10 years?    

 

Show me a team that has always progressed in a linear fashion and/or didn't experience growing pains for 6-9 years.   

 

If you want to see a team go from zero to hero in 3 years, then stick to EA Sports.

[goblix]

On this team Schmidt is a right d which is a little thin on youth on that side...

 

Juolevi does seem to have the hockey smarts and ability to play but he needs to fix his issues with agility.. guy can't turn and it hurts his defence. Think this is probably due to the injuries so I hope it's a matter of him getting comfortable with how his body works...

 

Anyways I'm down to trade Schmidt if he wants it and we get good return.. otherwise keep him so he can get accustomed to the new team before we ship him off.

[deus.ex.makina]

my bold move : trade him ONE on ONE to CGY for Tanev.... (3@4.5M vs 4@5.95... you save 1.5m in the process)

 

sign Savard

 

Hughes Tanev

Rathbone Savard

Juolevi Myers

 

note that i'm not convinced with Juolevi, but you have to play him on regular basis to really know what we have in him. if he doesn't perform, you can by then decide to trade him. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by deus.ex.makina