Undrafted Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Rindiculous said: This would be the same thing as flying a German flag in Canada during WW2. Why are you going to crap on Ovi if he's gonna support his home country? He doesn't owe Ukraine anything despite any political conflict. Completely false equivalency. The Ukraine is NOT an enemy of the US or the West, nor are they the aggressors in this war. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of the world supports the Ukraine, as they should. This is one of the very rare instances in the world where there is no "grey area"; what Putin is doing in the Ukraine is completely and totally wrong, immoral and evil, not to mention in contravention of numerous international laws. In other words, Putin's actions should not be supported, no matter how "patriotic" any Russian might be. You can't simply dismiss this as a "political conflict", this is an actual full-on war with a genuine threat of the use nuclear weapons already issued by Putin. As I said, my friends and I were willing at first to give OV the benefit of the doubt when it came to not making a strong statement about the war--after all, we've been fans for his entire career and my friends' loyalties to the Caps goes back to the 90s and they've have been super-conflicted about this. But banning fans from showing support for the Ukraine is a step too far. While it's true the COA's policy states that the ban includes both Russian and Ukrainian flags, that's a kind of false neutrality that's the same as when Trump tried to blame "both sides" during the Lafayette white supremacist marches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindiculous Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, Undrafted said: Completely false equivalency. The Ukraine is NOT an enemy of the US or the West, nor are they the aggressors in this war. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of the world supports the Ukraine, as they should. This is one of the very rare instances in the world where there is no "grey area"; what Putin is doing in the Ukraine is completely and totally wrong, immoral and evil, not to mention in contravention of numerous international laws. In other words, Putin's actions should not be supported, no matter how "patriotic" any Russian might be. You can't simply dismiss this as a "political conflict", this is an actual full-on war with a genuine threat of the use nuclear weapons already issued by Putin. As I said, my friends and I were willing at first to give OV the benefit of the doubt when it came to not making a strong statement about the war--after all, we've been fans for his entire career and my friends' loyalties to the Caps goes back to the 90s and they've have been super-conflicted about this. But banning fans from showing support for the Ukraine is a step too far. While it's true the COA's policy states that the ban includes both Russian and Ukrainian flags, that's a kind of false neutrality that's the same as when Trump tried to blame "both sides" during the Lafayette white supremacist marches. That is completely media propaganda talking. In anything, there is always a grey area. While I do not condone the invasion, to call someone completely immoral and evil is just to use the hockey term "homerism". If you want a fair analysis of the war and the factors at play I'd like to refer you to this youtube video because I'm not going to post it all here because it is way too complex for a simple forum post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE&t=46s&ab_channel=RealLifeLore . For example, let me bring up a couple things that are downplayed by mainstream media. Ukraine is about 55% pro EU and 45% pro Russian. Ukraine has been fighting a civil war for the past 8 years starting from the non democratic overthrow of the elected government in 2014. This caused several regions in Ukraine that are mostly pro Russian and have anti western sentiment to declare their independence. Ukraine has been trying to suppress these regions for 8 years and unlike what media tells you, these are not Russians...these are Ukrainians. 14,000+ people have been killed in this conflict over this time...about 5 times the amount of people that have been killed so far in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Do I support Russia invading? No. Do I support Ukraine not allowing these separatist regions to form their own country or integrate themselves with Russia by waging war with them? Also no. Russia is hoping that this war will help them for many reasons (economical, strategical, and to protect the people that are pro Russian from any more suppression). To think this war is completely because of an evil, power hungry dictator is completely brainwashed by what the media tells you because this is exactly the same thing that the US and NATO have been doing since the USSR broke up in 1991. In order to make your own opinion you have to first be empathetic for both sides. There is no 100% right and wrong in this world. Everything is a grey area just with different shades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rindiculous said: That is completely media propaganda talking. In anything, there is always a grey area. While I do not condone the invasion, to call someone completely immoral and evil is just to use the hockey term "homerism". If you want a fair analysis of the war and the factors at play I'd like to refer you to this youtube video because I'm not going to post it all here because it is way too complex for a simple forum post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE&t=46s&ab_channel=RealLifeLore . For example, let me bring up a couple things that are downplayed by mainstream media. Ukraine is about 55% pro EU and 45% pro Russian. Ukraine has been fighting a civil war for the past 8 years starting from the non democratic overthrow of the elected government in 2014. This caused several regions in Ukraine that are mostly pro Russian and have anti western sentiment to declare their independence. Ukraine has been trying to suppress these regions for 8 years and unlike what media tells you, these are not Russians...these are Ukrainians. 14,000+ people have been killed in this conflict over this time...about 5 times the amount of people that have been killed so far in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Do I support Russia invading? No. Do I support Ukraine not allowing these separatist regions to form their own country or integrate themselves with Russia by waging war with them? Also no. Russia is hoping that this war will help them for many reasons (economical, strategical, and to protect the people that are pro Russian from any more suppression). To think this war is completely because of an evil, power hungry dictator is completely brainwashed by what the media tells you because this is exactly the same thing that the US and NATO have been doing since the USSR broke up in 1991. In order to make your own opinion you have to first be empathetic for both sides. There is no 100% right and wrong in this world. Everything is a grey area just with different shades. So let me get this straight, you believe Russia is invading another country to help people who are being oppressed? RUSSIA? One of the more oppressive regimes in the world? Sounds like you’ve been reading a few too many Russian sources. Same ones that got Trump into power maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindiculous Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, DeNiro said: So let me get this straight, you believe Russia is invading another country to help people who are being oppressed? RUSSIA? One of the more oppressive regimes in the world? Sounds like you’ve been reading a few too many Russian sources. Same ones that got Trump into power maybe? Not predominantly, but yes it's one of the reasons they are and is probably the match that caused Russia to go to extremes rather than resolve peacefully because the more time goes by, the more pro Russian Ukrainians die (who a lot have family in Russia). Russia has been oppressive to people who don't share their viewpoint. That is the same thing with every country in the world is it not? Why did the US wage war in Korea, Vietnam, Cuba etc.? Why is Ukraine oppressive to the pro Russian minority? However, that doesn't mean they don't take care of people who share their viewpoint. Since Russia annexed Crimea, do you happen to know how many Billions of dollars they've poured into trying to support the Crimean people specifically with fresh water? Now a lot about the support in Crimea also has to do with economic reasons (oil in the Black Sea) and the reason why Ukraine holds such a tight fist over the separatist regions is because of oil in those regions as well. Both sides are at fault. Neither holds the high ground. Both have committed atrocities. I am by no means pro either country. I hold a completely neutral stance cause neither of them are my country and I don't have family in either country. Denying this by saying one country is completely in the right is a farce. Both countries want to advance their economies and both have been doing so through war. They're both to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Rindiculous said: That is completely media propaganda talking. In anything, there is always a grey area. While I do not condone the invasion, to call someone completely immoral and evil is just to use the hockey term "homerism". If you want a fair analysis of the war and the factors at play I'd like to refer you to this youtube video because I'm not going to post it all here because it is way too complex for a simple forum post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE&t=46s&ab_channel=RealLifeLore . For example, let me bring up a couple things that are downplayed by mainstream media. Ukraine is about 55% pro EU and 45% pro Russian. Ukraine has been fighting a civil war for the past 8 years starting from the non democratic overthrow of the elected government in 2014. This caused several regions in Ukraine that are mostly pro Russian and have anti western sentiment to declare their independence. Ukraine has been trying to suppress these regions for 8 years and unlike what media tells you, these are not Russians...these are Ukrainians. 14,000+ people have been killed in this conflict over this time...about 5 times the amount of people that have been killed so far in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Do I support Russia invading? No. Do I support Ukraine not allowing these separatist regions to form their own country or integrate themselves with Russia by waging war with them? Also no. Russia is hoping that this war will help them for many reasons (economical, strategical, and to protect the people that are pro Russian from any more suppression). To think this war is completely because of an evil, power hungry dictator is completely brainwashed by what the media tells you because this is exactly the same thing that the US and NATO have been doing since the USSR broke up in 1991. In order to make your own opinion you have to first be empathetic for both sides. There is no 100% right and wrong in this world. Everything is a grey area just with different shades. If you're getting your information from YouTube and believe it, then there's no point in having a discussion with you. YouTube has proven itself to be nothing more than a disinformation hub. You might mock the idea, but I have far more confidence in mainstream news media because they vet both their information and their sources--being factual matter to them. There is no information vetting process on YouTube: people can post whatever BS they like without getting fact-checked. I mean, really? You don't think publicly threatening the entire world with nuclear weapons isn't immoral or evil? You don't think recklessly attacking a nuclear reactor that could cause a major catastrophe several times worse than Chernobyl or Fukashima isn't immoral or evil? If the answer is "no" to those questions, then there's nothing to really say to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindiculous Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Undrafted said: If you're getting your information from YouTube and believe it, then there's no point in having a discussion with you. YouTube has proven itself to be nothing more than a disinformation hub. You might mock the idea, but I have far more confidence in mainstream news media because they vet both their information and their sources--being factual matter to them. There is no information vetting process on YouTube: people can post whatever BS they like without getting fact-checked. I mean, really? You don't think publicly threatening the entire world with nuclear weapons isn't immoral or evil? You don't think recklessly attacking a nuclear reactor that could cause a major catastrophe several times worse than Chernobyl or Fukashima isn't immoral or evil? If the answer is "no" to those questions, then there's nothing to really say to you. If you think people should not be allowed to support THEIR OWN FREAKING COUNTRY, you are the problem with society. Also I do not trust a single source. I trust reading/watching 50+ different articles and videos from 30+ different sources and drawing a conclusion from that. I haven't even drawn a conclusion. All I say is both sides have a point. Ukraine doesn't want to give up a huge portion of their resources in oil despite the areas declaring their independence and I understand that. I also understand that Russia's economy has been tanking for the last 30 years or so because they've become way too reliant on that and having a direct competitor in Ukraine could spell poverty for most of their country. I understand that. Both sides are looking for the best economic and strategic way to survive. Both have committed terrible atrocities do achieve that. But guess what? Almost every sovereign nation in the world has done the exact same thing at one point or another. To think that Ukraine is a complete victim in this conflict is just plain stupid. Also, Russia threatens nuclear weapons, but that's never gonna happen. It's called mutually assured destruction. That was one statement from Putin that the world has blown up entirely out of proportion. Also, you don't even know what you're talking about when it comes to the nuclear plant. They weren't attacking it to blow it up. They aren't dumbasses. It's a military objective because they can use that to cut off power from Europe. They can now try to counter the sanctions they've been receiving with sanctions of their own driving up energy prices even higher than before. I don't know how you can call advancing your strategic position like that evil. I know arguing with you would be like trying to talk to a brick wall. Also don't try and spin me saying that I'm pro Russian. If the entire western world were trying to say "Ukraine bad, Russia good" then I'd be arguing my hardest to show that Ukraine is not as bad as the mainstream media portray them to be. I am just of the opinion everyone should be allowed to support their OWN GOD DAMN COUNTRY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 There's a Russian war thread, war ain't happening around the NHL right now.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Kings roar back and grab a point after giving up three goals in less than a minute Must be nice to bail out your tender like that Edited March 5, 2022 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 BJ's win, not a good night for Quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Rags beat the Devils to build their divisional lead over Washington Every win or loss of theirs could have implications for us leading up to the deadline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 39 minutes ago, Coconuts said: BJ's win, not a good night for Quick BJ’s lose unfortunately. Kings back up by 7 even games played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Just now, DeNiro said: BJ’s lose unfortunately. Kings back up by 7 even games played. Whaaaaa I could have sworn BJ's scoree in OT, guess I turned it off too soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Dallas and Winnipeg both get a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Dallas wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Dallas wins Yep not a good result. 5 up now with games in hand. Likely gonna have to grab that third spot in the pacific if we’re gonna make it. Gotta catch Vegas, Anaheim, Edmonton. Anaheim winning tonight would save this out of town scoreboard from being a complete dud. Edited March 5, 2022 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Yep not a good result. 5 up now with games in hand. Likely gonna have to grab that third spot in the pacific if we’re gonna make it. Gotta catch Vegas, Anaheim, Edmonton. Anaheim winning tonight would save this out of town scoreboard from being a complete dud. Wouldn't surprise me if they did, Vegas has been shaky of late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Wouldn't surprise me if they did, Vegas has been shaky of late Gibson has been pretty shaky too. You can tell he’s not a confident goalie right now. One way I know is because he keeps switching helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Gibson has been pretty shaky too. You can tell he’s not a confident goalie right now. One way I know is because he keeps switching helmets. Yeah, goalies are a superstitious lot I think I probably spoke too soon, Vegas up 5-2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Well Vegas wins. Not a terrible result actually. We have a game in hand and a chance to pass the Ducks tomorrow. Could potentially be 2 back of the Oilers and 4 back of the Knights with a Canucks win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Well Vegas wins. Not a terrible result actually. We have a game in hand and a chance to pass the Ducks tomorrow. Could potentially be 2 back of the Oilers and 4 back of the Knights with a Canucks win. Almost a must win tho, I gully expect Edmonton to beat Montreal But who knows, they've been gutsy lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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