Canucks move up 8 spots in NHL Front Office Confidence Rankings

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, DSVII said:

Bieksa/Burrows/Hamhuis/Hansen eventually did or signalled they were willing to. A 2nd + freed up cap space is a good rebuild move Similar to why we were cheering Hamonic moving out, it wasn't the 4th, the $3 million in cap space is worth more.

 

I wish Benning did more of those and acquired more 2nds aside from having Torts gift him a free one (only to throw it away by waiving Gadjovich)

 

Who were the others? where was this reported? The Sedins are really the only locked and unmoveable pieces IMO, and they were never asked, nor should they have been as Franchise players.

Bieksa said yes (2015), Burrows said yes (2016), Hansen said yes (2016), Higgins said yes (2016). Higgins didn't want to leave but he was basically sent down and off the roster until he caved (poor taste probably on JB's part). NTC is not as big a barrier to a new GM that has no attachment to the core as some would make it.

 

Forget the letter to the public, the best time to get value for your assets is before everyone else knows you're rebuilding, it should have been 2014-15 (FA wears the blame on that one). No one's asking for a carbon copy but to at least take the steps in the right direction (Accumulation of draft capital to make up for the fact our team winning % was going down so restock at the draft)

 

For every time we default to how it can go horribly wrong like OTT, BUFF, ARI. I'll throw up TBL, NYR, CHI, BOS, COL, ANA, LA, PITTS, WASH, teams that successfully rebuilt accumulating top picks at the draft, selling assets (NTC or no) that set them up for the next decade. Just because a GM group executed poorly doesn't make this rebuild fact any less true. 

 

SJ is on another tier of tied up compared to the Canucks, they're a crazy outlier. Again, Benning had the ability to deploy ~30% of his cap space when he started and that was without even trying to ask the guys to waive the NTCs in year one outside of Garrison. 

 

Canucks were more similar to the 2010s-14 Toronto Maple Leafs than we'd like to admit. Having less draft capital than a team that finishes 15th while having a non-playoff regular season winning %.

 

They were a team with no prospects, with a 'locked in' core of :

 

Phil Kessel with a $8x8 mil per year NTC/NMC

Dion Phaneuf with a $7x7 mil NTC/NMC

Tyler Bozak with a $4.2x5 mil x 5 M-NTC

Joffrey Lupul with a $5.25x5 mil x 5 M-NTC

DAVID CLARKSON (their 'Player Name') with a $5.25 mil x 5 M-NTC (for 15 pts a season)

 

They managed to move all these guys to tank for Mathews in 2016, less than 2 seasons.

 

The difference was the Leafs admitted they needed a rebuild and got out of it. They moved those guys. Because that's what any competent GM office can and should have done. 

 

But people will point to Tavares and laugh but ignore all the good they did to get out of that old core.

 

An NTC is not as big a roadblock to a GM that has no attachment to the previous core.

 

 

 

 

I'm still optimistic we can do something with QH/Petey/Horvat, but not sure if Miller fits in the window of their primes. 

 

We're the 2010s minnesota wild right now (we even have bruce!), too good to tank in the regular season, too bad to contend in the playoffs. It's probably one of the toughest spots to be in for a management group so I'll wait and see. 

Yes they did - as i said in my post (waived eventually, after they didn't have much value).   

 

Hindsight is just that, what they should have done is rebuilt with an internal cap, and told the country club they wouldn't be pursuing a cup - rather injecting youth into the lineup, and if they wanted to stay for that rebuild that would be great.    The players whom wanted to win, would have left with Kesler or soon after.    The owners or management or both were unfortunately not assessing the shaky dynamic of the team (Luongo  lamenting in the media his contract was not tradeable, he sure enjoyed that massive bonus though!  Kesler etc ... ) 

 

Signing Miller and Vrbata was actually a good move under the metrics/path they decided to go.   Another high finish did have the city excited enough.   It was a great team.    What would we do this season if we ended up with 107ish points and a solid playoff spot?    Sure we'd be excited.   

 

Hope that ownership learned a valuable lesson.    And one day, i'd really like a tell all from Linden about what he wanted to do with the team.    2017 was the official rebuild year - that's when Burrows and Hansen finally waived ... for a fraction of what we could have got a couple years before.   Several firsts.   Coleman got TB one lol.   Burrows?  Easily a couple seconds or a late first and B level prospect.   Bieksa?  For sure more then a second.  

 

Edit:  This team never properly bottomed out.   Demko and Brock for sure added value to the fact we slipped draft after draft (thank god we didn't have to see the dissapointment on Linden's face anymore).     Hughes and EP worked out like top 3 picks.   OJ - that draft could have been our missing D.   We also haven't had an impact third rounder plus since Edler and Hansen were drafted ... 17/18 drafts ago!   Brutal. 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by IBatch

[MikeyD]

I'm just personally surprised at how reasonable we are as a fan base lolllll

[MikeyD]

What's everybody else's rankings here? 

 

I'll start:

 

Roster Building: B-

Cap Management: D+

Draft and Develop: B- (mainly due to development aspect being awful)

Trading: B- 

Free Agency: C

Vision: C

Total: C

 

Change in confidence in comparison to last year: Obviously more.

[spook007]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:51 AM, IBatch said:

Edler was asked to waive as were others , they didn't.   Garrison was the only one that did (for what, a second? - master rebuild move there)  ... those are facts.   So it's not a "shaky" narrative.    Yet some think a new GM could just come in and shred NMC and full NTC's with say - a letter to the public that they were going to rebuild or something like NYR did.    Or what TO did etc.   Or what OTT did (all completely different circumstance's and guess where OTT was in their cycle, about exactly where we are now and they tore it up..nobody was claused so they could lol, people need to pull their heads out of their asses about this).   This team was more like SJ and DET, with their core all tied up until they weren't.    As for guys that did leave.   Hansen and Burrows both went to good/great teams at the time.   They did want to win, but both had little value.   Their replacement level back on our team was probably better and we all know how bad they were.  

 

Edler and the Sedins ... Well.   Hamhuis no point in re-hashing that.    Edler was always obviously more about the money ... look where he went lol.  LA - ooh contender?!  lol.  

 

Top team in the league you'd think we should get more then what we did.   Linden and Bure set this team up

for two cores. 

 

Im not sure how things will go with Allvin.   Maybe we should be tearing it apart now, trade QHs, Horvat and Miller and starting over.   Now or soon would be the time to do it. 

Now that would taking the Bull by the horns IBatch.

 

I haver actually been thing something along those lines as well. 

If we feel player A or B or C doesn't fit the time line of a few other players, what about when their next contracts are to be signed, will they not fit the time line of player D or E etc...

Will they be too expensive to keep or will keeping them mean, we won't be able to afford decent players in other positions...

 

Maybe trading some of the players with actual value, would kick start a rebuild especially now, when there are supposed to be lots of great players to be drafted... 

Boeser, Petey maybe even QH could potentially bring haul to kick start the club... Not just the usual suspect (Miller and/or Bo)

 

If this had been in 2015-2016 or there about and we had the opportunity, knowing we are going to be sailing around for next 8+years, I'd do it in a heart beat, but it isn't....

and I'm tired of losing. Second part of last season was so refreshing, that I just want to see, what this team will be capable of... Oh to be able to look into the future.

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, spook007 said:

Now that would taking the Bull by the horns IBatch.

 

I haver actually been thing something along those lines as well. 

If we feel player A or B or C doesn't fit the time line of a few other players, what about when their next contracts are to be signed, will they not fit the time line of player D or E etc...

Will they be too expensive to keep or will keeping them mean, we won't be able to afford decent players in other positions...

 

Maybe trading some of the players with actual value, would kick start a rebuild especially now, when there are supposed to be lots of great players to be drafted... 

Boeser, Petey maybe even QH could potentially bring haul to kick start the club... Not just the usual suspect (Miller and/or Bo)

 

If this had been in 2015-2016 or there about and we had the opportunity, knowing we are going to be sailing around for next 8+years, I'd do it in a heart beat, but it isn't....

and I'm tired of losing. Second part of last season was so refreshing, that I just want to see, what this team will be capable of... Oh to be able to look into the future.

It's just too hard to get a chance and maybe i need my brain examined, but don't think we are that far off now.   Another top four D -(Bieksa/Hamhuis/Salo/Ohlund/Babych types)  would go a long way.   One that is young or even one like Severson/Toews etc.    A young one on a cheap deal, or a Myers upgrade (i have no issue with Myers play with Bruce at the helm).

 

Bruce "There it Is!"  was fun.   The bubble was also fun.   You don't get many chances in this league, and the way he had the team playing ... and with Brock healthy and ready to prove himself again, EP and Horvat playing great ... heck pretty much everyone.    Our D gets a ton of flak ... but our GA went way down ... our 5 x 5 play was decent even under Green.   Our PK did kill us.    No wonder they probably overspent in Ilya M.   But money likely well spent.   Lazar's enthusiasm is infectious.    We are going to really like this kid.    Kuzmo already has Bruce singing his praises.   Which is also going to help Podz.     Our cap might have some issues ... but we also have quite a few decent to excellent cap hits to help balance it out.   Kuzmo likely (THN also believes in him - 50 points plus another play maker never hurts) Miller, Pearson, Horvat, Garland ... cheap bottom pairing guys all out performed their cap hits...there is a way to check that (Horvat by one million last year, Miller by 4.5) ... that helps.    

 

When have we had this many guys who can score 20-30 goals?   Not often.  

 

PP tops in the league down the stretch, 4th overall with Bruce, 26.9%.  And our skill is so good, that we draw a ton of them (thank you EP, thank you Garland).

  PK went from dismal to respectable ... EP/Horvat duo was deadly.   12th overall but only a few points off 6th best in the league.   Better then both COL and FLD.   And Ilya M is going to bump that up.  

 

Know enough has been said about Miller.   And that JR has said they are in no rush to trade him and that they aren't close on a deal (yet).   Feel it's going to be awfully hard to trade him at the deadline.   Because we've got good odds to follow the same path as last season with Bruce.   That's good for 4th in the conference without any gains.   Know that the pace was tough ... but they have to learn that's the pace they need to be successful.    And that's good enough to enter the playoffs with some expectations.    We are a much better team then the bubble one.   And well, i have a gut feeling this core is more like the Linden one then the Sedin one - meaning once we get in we are a better post season team, then a regular season one. 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's just too hard to get a chance and maybe i need my brain examined, but don't think we are that far off now.   Another top four D -(Bieksa/Hamhuis/Salo/Ohlund/Babych types)  would go a long way.   One that is young or even one like Severson/Toews etc.    A young one on a cheap deal, or a Myers upgrade (i have no issue with Myers play with Bruce at the helm).

 

Bruce "There it Is!"  was fun.   The bubble was also fun.   You don't get many chances in this league, and the way he had the team playing ... and with Brock healthy and ready to prove himself again, EP and Horvat playing great ... heck pretty much everyone.    Our D gets a ton of flak ... but our GA went way down ... our 5 x 5 play was decent even under Green.   Our PK did kill us.    No wonder they probably overspent in Ilya M.   But money likely well spent.   Lazar's enthusiasm is infectious.    We are going to really like this kid.    Kuzmo already has Bruce singing his praises.   Which is also going to help Podz.     Our cap might have some issues ... but we also have quite a few decent to excellent cap hits to help balance it out.   Kuzmo likely (THN also believes in him - 50 points plus another play maker never hurts) Miller, Pearson, Horvat, Garland ... cheap bottom pairing guys all out performed their cap hits...there is a way to check that (Horvat by one million last year, Miller by 4.5) ... that helps.    

 

When have we had this many guys who can score 20-30 goals?   Not often.  

 

PP tops in the league down the stretch, 4th overall with Bruce, 26.9%.  And our skill is so good, that we draw a ton of them (thank you EP, thank you Garland).

  PK went from dismal to respectable ... EP/Horvat duo was deadly.   12th overall but only a few points off 6th best in the league.   Better then both COL and FLD.   And Ilya M is going to bump that up.  

 

Know enough has been said about Miller.   And that JR has said they are in no rush to trade him and that they aren't close on a deal (yet).   Feel it's going to be awfully hard to trade him at the deadline.   Because we've got good odds to follow the same path as last season with Bruce.   That's good for 4th in the conference without any gains.   Know that the pace was tough ... but they have to learn that's the pace they need to be successful.    And that's good enough to enter the playoffs with some expectations.    We are a much better team then the bubble one.   And well, i have a gut feeling this core is more like the Linden one then the Sedin one - meaning once we get in we are a better post season team, then a regular season one. 

 

 

All sounds terrific on paper..................................BUT............................we missed the playoffs again last year like most of the last decade!   Until they can not only make the playoffs but be of some reasonable threat to push deeper and be some form of a threat to other teams - this franchise will remain a failure. Everything else is background noise, bluster and propoganda.   

 

Sad but TRUE!    Results matter!

Edited September 2, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[spook007]

39 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's just too hard to get a chance and maybe i need my brain examined, but don't think we are that far off now.   Another top four D -(Bieksa/Hamhuis/Salo/Ohlund/Babych types)  would go a long way.   One that is young or even one like Severson/Toews etc.    A young one on a cheap deal, or a Myers upgrade (i have no issue with Myers play with Bruce at the helm).

 

Bruce "There it Is!"  was fun.   The bubble was also fun.   You don't get many chances in this league, and the way he had the team playing ... and with Brock healthy and ready to prove himself again, EP and Horvat playing great ... heck pretty much everyone.    Our D gets a ton of flak ... but our GA went way down ... our 5 x 5 play was decent even under Green.   Our PK did kill us.    No wonder they probably overspent in Ilya M.   But money likely well spent.   Lazar's enthusiasm is infectious.    We are going to really like this kid.    Kuzmo already has Bruce singing his praises.   Which is also going to help Podz.     Our cap might have some issues ... but we also have quite a few decent to excellent cap hits to help balance it out.   Kuzmo likely (THN also believes in him - 50 points plus another play maker never hurts) Miller, Pearson, Horvat, Garland ... cheap bottom pairing guys all out performed their cap hits...there is a way to check that (Horvat by one million last year, Miller by 4.5) ... that helps.    

 

When have we had this many guys who can score 20-30 goals?   Not often.  

 

PP tops in the league down the stretch, 4th overall with Bruce, 26.9%.  And our skill is so good, that we draw a ton of them (thank you EP, thank you Garland).

  PK went from dismal to respectable ... EP/Horvat duo was deadly.   12th overall but only a few points off 6th best in the league.   Better then both COL and FLD.   And Ilya M is going to bump that up.  

 

Know enough has been said about Miller.   And that JR has said they are in no rush to trade him and that they aren't close on a deal (yet).   Feel it's going to be awfully hard to trade him at the deadline.   Because we've got good odds to follow the same path as last season with Bruce.   That's good for 4th in the conference without any gains.   Know that the pace was tough ... but they have to learn that's the pace they need to be successful.    And that's good enough to enter the playoffs with some expectations.    We are a much better team then the bubble one.   And well, i have a gut feeling this core is more like the Linden one then the Sedin one - meaning once we get in we are a better post season team, then a regular season one. 

 

 

Agree on all parts, hence why I've been on the fence regarding trading/keeping Miller. 
If Kuz really does this well resigning him next summer will not be easy neither. 
Maybe that's why they are holding on to Miller for now, just to see/ensure he is going to be as good as they hope for. 
 

But for one season, we have the chance to really go for it.... as I said, if I was tired of all the losing, god knows how Bo must feel... 

 

There is zero doubt, if this team is flying come TDL is will be really hard to trade away Miller or Bo for the matter... 

No matter what the return will be fans won't be happy if we are in the top 6-8 teams in the NHL at that stage, and a free scoring Miller is being traded. 

[spook007]

26 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

All sounds terrific on paper..................................BUT............................we missed the playoffs again last year like most of the last decade!   Until they can not only make the playoffs but be of some reasonable threat to push deeper and be some form of a threat to other teams - this franchise will remain a failure. Everything else is background noise, bluster and propoganda.   

 

Sad but TRUE!    Results matter!

True.... take the terrible Green start out of the equation, zero doubt they would have made the play offs...

Yes I know, ifs and buts, but I think even the most hardened critic, would have a fair belief in this to be true. 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

All sounds terrific on paper..................................BUT............................we missed the playoffs again last year like most of the last decade!   Until they can not only make the playoffs but be of some reasonable threat to push deeper and be some form of a threat to other teams - this franchise will remain a failure. Everything else is background noise, bluster and propoganda.   

 

Sad but TRUE!    Results matter!

Sad but true for sure.   I'm almost 50.   I've also suffered lol.   Know what's really sad?   Watching the league get watered down so badly that an entire decade was cringeworthy (2000's) ... old guys who were almost done were outperforming the best young players after the lockout (Pronger, Neidermayer, Lidstrom, Zubov - who at 37 scored over 70, Sakic who scored over 100 too,  Selanne, Sundin etc etc etc) because the league had grown beyond the actual talent level ... and the dead puck era before that also a result of expansion, plugs, super goons etc.     Plus we no longer have power forwards or enforcers.  That totally blows.  Product suffered as a result, a lot.   Where is the Joel Otto/Messier rivalry?   Or the Battle of Alberta?  Nords/Habs - Habs/Bruins?  COL/DET?   Rivalries are all but gone now.   Players even visit and say hi after games lol.   That never happened in the 80's in the battle of Alberta, they used to have to put the tables across the room as far as they can during summer events both teams were part of.    And Keane still says he gets mad and anxious thinking about playing DET etc ... Dumb. 

 

RU serious!   32 teams.   53.03 plus tax rate where as most US teams enjoy 36.4-38% tax bracket for all their middle six middle pairing guys, and 6 teams right up to 12.5 million guys.   Bobrovsky takes home almost 900k more then McDavid!    So i have a lot to complain about too. 

 

21 teams was way better hockey.   Imagine taking all the bottom pairing guys out of the league, all the fourth line guys out of the league, adding one or two enforcers (guys that can play the game too) and removing the red-line!  Most teams would be as good as COL and TB or better.   As they should be.   COL first great team i've seen since the early 2000's minus a goalie.   At least the talent level is catching up to the size of the league finally.  

 

On paper - just so you have something to be happy to be mad about, THN predicted we'd be 5th best in our division.   EDM/CAL/Vegas/LA... so on paper some don't agree with me and it's not all that rosy either.   And it's also pretty silly because their fantasy book has us scoring too many goals to be that bad.    Think that writer really wanted Miller last season - read his trade proposal in the media (Kerfoot, their two best prospects both meh and their first). 
 

You hated Green and Benning.   They are gone. 

 

So have to ask this question, do you believe what Bruce and the team accomplished last season, is the actual team?  Or is it more like what Green coached ... not a lot of personnel changes (which IMO tanked our season, Ferraro is correct in saying it takes a full year to get used to your new digs) and Green spent the pre-season picking his plugs - Chiasson lol.   Instead of playing the new guys and working on line combos etc.    This has nothing to do with what is on paper.   Do you believe with your actual eye balls,  COL fans sure did and were scared about us making it in.    My eye balls say yes this is the team we were supposed to be.  

 

EP/Horvat made a deadly PK duo.   Who would have thought?   Playing your best players on the special teams is a good idea lol.   

 

Your setting yourself up for a ton of suffering, if you think that a cup is the only thing that gives you any sort of pleasure.   Results.   Well we weren't EDM/CAL in the 80's ... that was sad but true as well, that was tough (81/89 only years to be excited about!).   90's were exciting to say the least after a "decade" of that, better playoff team then regular season one.    2000's WCE was fine until the playoffs - most of the Sedin era was too, expect for one magical run, underwhelming compared to the 90's teams.   Linden was money in the playoffs, as were most players back then.   We should have made the Gretzky trade - losing Ronning sucked without a replacement, and Mogilny was such a coupe that never paid the correct dividend because Bure wasn't happy.   Salary disclosure ... now cap!   

 

 People are still excited/emotional about 81,94, 2011.   Do you also consider those seasons "failures"?   I sure hope not.    If winning a cup is the only thing that matters - then i'd recommend changing allegiances each year, to both teams in the final.    Then you get your ribbon. 

 

Also just so you understand - taxes are putting us in a bad position to compete. 3/4 of the league has a distinct advantage.    Allvin and JR are already finding that out lol...so should i pre-make a fire Allvin thread or just wait a couple years first? 

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Agree on all parts, hence why I've been on the fence regarding trading/keeping Miller. 
If Kuz really does this well resigning him next summer will not be easy neither. 
Maybe that's why they are holding on to Miller for now, just to see/ensure he is going to be as good as they hope for. 
 

But for one season, we have the chance to really go for it.... as I said, if I was tired of all the losing, god knows how Bo must feel... 

 

There is zero doubt, if this team is flying come TDL is will be really hard to trade away Miller or Bo for the matter... 

No matter what the return will be fans won't be happy if we are in the top 6-8 teams in the NHL at that stage, and a free scoring Miller is being traded. 

If JR follows through with what he said, Horvat will be signed before the season. That would help with the dominoes.   

 

Really comes down to what happens.   If we aren't in a firm position heading into the TDL, Miller is as good as gone.   For me at least, i don't see any angle that's all that terrible with Miller.   We either get playoffs with him still onboard, and a nice sample size to see what him and the rest of the crew manage,  we re-sign him which for the next four years is fine, or we trade him.   The re-signing part scares me the most unless it's no more then 8.5... Miller should  outperform that deal for awhile anyways.   And then of course the return - which i believe will absolutely be more then the cost.   If Coleman gets a late first lol.   We should get something like what Claude Giroux got.  

[RU SERIOUS]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Sad but true for sure.   I'm almost 50.   I've also suffered lol.   Know what's really sad?   Watching the league get watered down so badly that an entire decade was cringeworthy (2000's) ... old guys who were almost done were outperforming the best young players after the lockout (Pronger, Neidermayer, Lidstrom, Zubov - who at 37 scored over 70, Sakic who scored over 100 too,  Selanne, Sundin etc etc etc) because the league had grown beyond the actual talent level ... and the dead puck era before that also a result of expansion, plugs, super goons etc.     Plus we no longer have power forwards or enforcers.  That totally blows.  Product suffered as a result, a lot.   Where is the Joel Otto/Messier rivalry?   Or the Battle of Alberta?  Nords/Habs - Habs/Bruins?  COL/DET?   Rivalries are all but gone now.   Players even visit and say hi after games lol.   That never happened in the 80's in the battle of Alberta, they used to have to put the tables across the room as far as they can during summer events both teams were part of.    And Keane still says he gets mad and anxious thinking about playing DET etc ... Dumb. 

 

RU serious!   32 teams.   53.03 plus tax rate where as most US teams enjoy 36.4-38% tax bracket for all their middle six middle pairing guys, and 6 teams right up to 12.5 million guys.   Bobrovsky takes home almost 900k more then McDavid!    So i have a lot to complain about too. 

 

21 teams was way better hockey.   Imagine taking all the bottom pairing guys out of the league, all the fourth line guys out of the league, adding one or two enforcers (guys that can play the game too) and removing the red-line!  Most teams would be as good as COL and TB or better.   As they should be.   COL first great team i've seen since the early 2000's minus a goalie.   At least the talent level is catching up to the size of the league finally.  

 

On paper - just so you have something to be happy to be mad about, THN predicted we'd be 5th best in our division.   EDM/CAL/Vegas/LA... so on paper some don't agree with me and it's not all that rosy either.   And it's also pretty silly because their fantasy book has us scoring too many goals to be that bad.    Think that writer really wanted Miller last season - read his trade proposal in the media (Kerfoot, their two best prospects both meh and their first). 
 

You hated Green and Benning.   They are gone. 

 

So have to ask this question, do you believe what Bruce and the team accomplished last season, is the actual team?  Or is it more like what Green coached ... not a lot of personnel changes (which IMO tanked our season, Ferraro is correct in saying it takes a full year to get used to your new digs) and Green spent the pre-season picking his plugs - Chiasson lol.   Instead of playing the new guys and working on line combos etc.    This has nothing to do with what is on paper.   Do you believe with your actual eye balls,  COL fans sure did and were scared about us making it in.    My eye balls say yes this is the team we were supposed to be.  

 

EP/Horvat made a deadly PK duo.   Who would have thought?   Playing your best players on the special teams is a good idea lol.   

 

Your setting yourself up for a ton of suffering, if you think that a cup is the only thing that gives you any sort of pleasure.   Results.   Well we weren't EDM/CAL in the 80's ... that was sad but true as well, that was tough (81/89 only years to be excited about!).   90's were exciting to say the least after a "decade" of that, better playoff team then regular season one.    2000's WCE was fine until the playoffs - most of the Sedin era was too, expect for one magical run, underwhelming compared to the 90's teams.   Linden was money in the playoffs, as were most players back then.   We should have made the Gretzky trade - losing Ronning sucked without a replacement, and Mogilny was such a coupe that never paid the correct dividend because Bure wasn't happy.   Salary disclosure ... now cap!   

 

 People are still excited/emotional about 81,94, 2011.   Do you also consider those seasons "failures"?   I sure hope not.    If winning a cup is the only thing that matters - then i'd recommend changing allegiances each year, to both teams in the final.    Then you get your ribbon. 

 

Also just so you understand - taxes are putting us in a bad position to compete. 3/4 of the league has a distinct advantage.    Allvin and JR are already finding that out lol...so should i pre-make a fire Allvin thread or just wait a couple years first? 

Well, while I agree with most of what you've stated, I certainly won't be suffering if we don't win a cup - as I did not state anything remotely close to that.  What will make me more enthusiatic about this team, is when the day comes that we have a good change to challenge deeper into the playoffs - not just make the 1st round of the playoffs.    Hopefully BB and the couple of tweeks JR, Alvin & "The Chipmunk Girls" made can at least get the ball rolling on that but I think we all have to admit that there are still some fairly serious holes in this roster than need fixing (sparing you the details - because I suspect you know what needs fixing).  Hopefully as all the bad JB contracts fall of the books our new mgmt team can not only replace departing players but improve upon them because the bar has been set too low for this franchise for over a decade and at this rate I'll be dead by the time they win a cup! 

 

BTW, I especially agree with you with the over expansion of the league as there are far too many marginal players in this league and the homoginization of the whole league by Gary Bettman.   There is no doubt that hockey back several decade ago was much more intense and involved than todays watered-down version of what was once the best show in town.  That is Sad but very true.

Edited September 2, 2022 by RU SERIOUS