Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Do you want food on the table or do you want the pond stocked? is it that hard for people to comprehend that its impossible to draft to build a team AND a prospect pool? Like pick one or the other. Either way one department is going to be seriously lacking. Considering between Nonis and Gillis they had 1 successful draft plus Horvat. Everything else was garbage and no prospects for 8 years. Idk what kinda miracles you guys expect, but be thankful we have a very young and talented core. Gillis built our most successful team ever, then when the run was over he recommended “rebuild” and our own fired him. Gills wasn’t given the opportunity to rebuild. Benning wasn’t either. This new group won’t be allowed either. (Even though that’s what JR said we needed when he first arrived) We move out picks/prospects in win now moves because that is our owner’s philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannydog Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Provost said: Anyone still supportive of Benning at this point has to be a close relative or have significant Cognitive issues. Almost a decade and he managed to turn a fringe playoff team with a bad prospect pool into a bottom dwelling team with cap issues and an even worse prospect pool. It is actually difficult to be that incompetent. Maybe if he had the amount of staff allotted to JR things would be different. Instead of wearing to many hats. I liked JB but he definitely dropped the ball a couple times. When JR took the reigns and I looked into his history ,I can honestly say I was concerned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Gillis built our most successful team ever, then when the run was over he recommended “rebuild” and our own fired him. Gills wasn’t given the opportunity to rebuild. Benning wasn’t either. This new group won’t be allowed either. (Even though that’s what JR said we needed when he first arrived) We move out picks/prospects in win now moves because that is our owner’s philosophy. Gillis made the final additions… he didnt build sh!t. He inheritted: Sedins Kesler Luongo Salo Edler Burrows Raymond Hansen Schneider 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dannydog said: Maybe if he had the amount of staff allotted to JR things would be different. Instead of wearing to many hats. I liked JB but he definitely dropped the ball a couple times. When JR took the reigns and I looked into his history ,I can honestly say I was concerned. Me too. Did you check his and Allvin’s drafting? Their combined drafting in Pittsburgh from 2016 onward produced less points than Vasilevskiy. Also looks like they enjoyed moving 1st round picks. edit: Allvin was the head of Euro scouting and they picked Kapanen over Pastrnak. This guy was in his own backyard and he saw more in Kapanen than Pastrnak….. Edited October 23, 2022 by AnthonyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Gillis made the final additions… he didnt build sh!t. He inheritted: Sedins Kesler Luongo Salo Edler Burrows Raymond Hansen Schneider Gillis teams were our most successful ever. That is not arguable. Benning’s era was our worst. Our owner needs to allow JR to do what he said was needed when he first got here. Not trading Miller at the 2022 TDL was a mistake. We can still trade him now, and should. And for futures. But our owner will not allow trading away our top players for futures. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Right now we are back to square one, when we were losing last year at the start of the season. I think there are too many chefs in the kitchen. Boudreau has lost control of his messages to his players. These new coaches aren't working out. Especially on the PP, which has been a huge problem for us. Simplify and reduce the number of coaches, get back to Coach B's original message, cut out the hoopla and finger pointing and fix whatever it is that Coach B needs to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Just now, AnthonyG said: Me too. Did you check his and Allvin’s drafting? Their combined drafting in Pittsburgh from 2016 onward produced less points than Vasilevskiy. Also looks like they enjoyed moving 1st round picks. Because they were focused on winning Cups. Just like Gillis was trying to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Hairy Kneel said: Right now we are back to square one, when we were losing last year at the start of the season. I think there are too many chefs in the kitchen. Boudreau has lost control of his messages to his players. These new coaches aren't working out. Especially on the PP, which has been a huge problem for us. Simplify and reduce the number of coaches, get back to Coach B's original message, cut out the hoopla and finger pointing and fix whatever it is that Coach B needs to fix. Maybe the coaches aren’t the issue? Maybe our best players aren’t good enough? IMHAO we need to do a deep diving rebuild. Three drafts in the top five and add lots of second rounders too by trading away guys like: Miller, Bo, Bess, Garland. We have Petey, Demko, Hughes and a few young guys. OEL isn’t movable (contract). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Just now, Alflives said: Maybe the coaches aren’t the issue? Maybe our best players aren’t good enough? IMHAO we need to do a deep diving rebuild. Three drafts in the top five and add lots of second rounders too by trading away guys like: Miller, Bo, Bess, Garland. We have Petey, Demko, Hughes and a few young guys. OEL isn’t movable (contract). Burn it down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Gillis teams were our most successful ever. That is not arguable. Benning’s era was our worst. Our owner needs to allow JR to do what he said was needed when he first got here. Not trading Miller at the 2022 TDL was a mistake. We can still trade him now, and should. And for futures. But our owner will not allow trading away our top players for futures. You could have been the GM during “The Gillis era” and it would have been our best years. He only added a few pieces, he didnt build ANYTHING and he failed at the draft table. If he was soooo good… why did he go from GM to a teacher? Hasnt gotten a gig in the NHL. you cant even argue that he built anything when none of the major core pieces came from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: Because they were focused on winning Cups. Just like Gillis was trying to do. Then Gillis shoulda moved a couple extra 1st round picks to get the job done. Inheritted 75% of the 2011 team, made a few additions but kept all but 1 first round pick… which were pretty much all useless. Shoulda gave them away and added another big piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: You could have been the GM during “The Gillis era” and it would have been our best years. He only added a few pieces, he didnt build ANYTHING and he failed at the draft table. If he was soooo good… why did he go from GM to a teacher? Hasnt gotten a gig in the NHL. you cant even argue that he built anything when none of the major core pieces came from him. Facts: Gillis era produced two President’s trophies and Cup Final. Consistent contender. I think our owner got caught up in the belief that this kind of success could be accomplished by building around any group of younger players. So he thought Benning could do it. Now he thinks JR/Allvin can do it. Nope. Like you point out there needs to be the “right core of players” to build around. And we currently don’t have that core. We need to rebuild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Here's the hypocrisy with this: A lot of people wanted Benning gone so badly. Then the new replacement comes in and actually does nothing with the changes, aside from minor/unproven moves, while leaving the defense intact. The defense has been criticized for years for not being constructed well enough. Rutherford even re-signs Miller which the previous regime traded for. I do remember how people criticized that trade initially for being an "overpayment". I'll never forget how this fanbase praised this new management from the beginning for taking a fresh approach. That has always been my issue with this. I don't dislike the moves made by Rutherford. I just can't stand this fanbase pretending that something drastic has changed, except the GM. It's funny. When people blame this team, it's Benning's fault, even though the good things (Pettersson, Boeser, Rathbone, Podkolzin, etc etc) are also a part of this. When people were praising the above changes, Rutherford was hailed basically as a hero. Edited October 23, 2022 by Dazzle 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Then Gillis shoulda moved a couple extra 1st round picks to get the job done. Inheritted 75% of the 2011 team, made a few additions but kept all but 1 first round pick… which were pretty much all useless. Shoulda gave them away and added another big piece I don’t think we disagree. Gillis was trying to win the Cup, but he had a core that could be good enough to do so, with the right supporting cast. Since then we clearly haven’t a core even close to that good, so it doesn’t matter how good the supporting cast is; we will continue to lose. This is why JR said, when he first arrived, we will need to take a couple steps back in order to build (over time) a consistent winner. Then Bruce “there it is” showed up and the group played better. Then no trades of core guys at the 2022 TDL or last summer. We kept the same core and added support players. IMHAO that’s our owner’s philosophy creeping in. And it’s wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: I don’t think we disagree. Gillis was trying to win the Cup, but he had a core that could be good enough to do so, with the right supporting cast. Since then we clearly haven’t a core even close to that good, so it doesn’t matter how good the supporting cast is; we will continue to lose. This is why JR said, when he first arrived, we will need to take a couple steps back in order to build (over time) a consistent winner. Then Bruce “there it is” showed up and the group played better. Then no trades of core guys at the 2022 TDL or last summer. We kept the same core and added support players. IMHAO that’s our owner’s philosophy creeping in. And it’s wrong. This is contradictory to what Rutherford said when he came in, that he wouldn't have come here if he was not given the freedom to do what he needed to do. What's changed then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dazzle said: This is contradictory to what Rutherford said when he came in, that he wouldn't have come here if he was not given the freedom to do what he needed to do. What's changed then? Don’t know. What do you (others) think has changed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Don’t know. What do you (others) think has changed? You can't just flip the question on me. I am pointing out the hypocrisy and contradictions put out by the new management, which the fans had put way too much stock into. There was so much goddamn analysis from those early sound bites that people were all-in on this new management, despite having no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: Facts: Gillis era produced two President’s trophies and Cup Final. Consistent contender. I think our owner got caught up in the belief that this kind of success could be accomplished by building around any group of younger players. So he thought Benning could do it. Now he thinks JR/Allvin can do it. Nope. Like you point out there needs to be the “right core of players” to build around. And we currently don’t have that core. We need to rebuild. Fact he didnt draft Daniel Sedin Henrik Sedin Ryan Kesler Kevin Bieksa Alex Edler Mason Raymond Cory Schneider Jannik Hansen Fact He did not acquire Sami Salo Roberto Luongo Facts Burke had more of an impact on the 2010-11 Roster than Gillis did. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeQuinnAndEggs Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Aquilini should have listened to his then president, Trevor Linden, in 2017 or 2019, whenever it was. The last 10 years have been a massive failure no matter what way you slice it. I hope Rutherford tears it down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeQuinnAndEggs Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: Fact he didnt draft Daniel Sedin Henrik Sedin Ryan Kesler Kevin Bieksa Alex Edler Mason Raymond Cory Schneider Jannik Hansen Fact He did not acquire Sami Salo Roberto Luongo Facts Burke had more of an impact on the 2010-11 Roster than Gillis did. Gillis got them over the hump though. He was excellent at cap management and acquiring role players. Shit the bed with the goalies though, should have traded Schneider for Backes or a comparable, he tried though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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