A whole year of the same results and attitude and yet the core remains intact. It's Insane. Where is the accountability?

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I disagree and glad that JB is Gone And surprised why anyone would defend him 9 yrs later to see where we are mow)

His 1st 3 yrs  you mentioned he also traded 12 picks and got 9 back for a team that was to be getting younger

He traded the 1st (he got in Keslar trade in McCann) and a 2nd (RasmusAsplund) and a 4th for Erik Gudbranson and 5th

 

He got a 2nd for Bieksa, then used that 2nd, plus Bonino and Clendening for Sutter  then immediately gave Suter a 5 yr contract with a Retroactive no trade clause  a yr before his current contract expired, despite never playing a game for the Canucks calling him foundational (lesser player than Bonino alone and more $)

 

Used a 2nd on Bartschi who Calgary used on  Rasmus Anderson

 

So many poor deals, overpayments  being capped out without acquiring picks like smart teams do and poor construction plus losing heart to Calgary for nothing and capping out each year and his last deal missing out getting young good players available with that 9th overall pick in 2021 and 2nd round in 2022

 

I don't expect to change your opinion on him and just offering mine

 

He made some good  stuff in 8 yrs but who among us with a staff who helped him pick his best players couldn't have themselves done a few decent things?

 

This team is not built to be a top team and could have been better faster without him

Just go back and look at the rosters he had to work with and like it was mentioned, the first few years were a “win now” window. He flipped as much as he could to try and get a young up and coming player that could be part of the transition out of the impending end of the Sedin era. Which fits with all those moves, the Gudbranson deal, Bonino, Sbisa, Sutter, Baertschi all under 25. How many core players from the 2010-11 team played 3 more seasons after Benning shipped them out? Also Gudbranson is a complete hindsight 20/20. His playoff performance in Florida was monsterous, he also had 2 very solid back to back seasons in Florida. He also missed 82 games in his first 2 seasons with Van…. The organization was deep in the dumps by the time we acquired him after all those failed years of drafting between 2005-2013 finally caught up. How is that a fair assessment? Also if you really want to cast your hate on JB for acquiring him, whos the idiot that took him off his hands? 
 

Jim Benning walked into a sinking vessel with a dozen holes in it and nothing to work with to repair it. He flipped as many seconds and players as possible to get young roster players to fill a void. We had no prospects, not enough time to develop that many players that quickly. 
 

I’d be careful when you talk about poor trades lol. Lets talk about McCann for a second… lol

2016

From Van: McCann+2nd+4th to Florida for Gudbranson+5th

 

2019

From Florida: McCann+Bjugstad to Pittsburgh for Sheahan+Brassard+2nd+4th+4th

 

2021

From Pittsburgh: McCann to Toronto for Hallander and a 7th…

 

2021 

Waived by Toronto and claimed by Seattle in the expansion draft.

seems to me there is a serious issue with McCann. 5 teams in 5 years and was given away for free in the end.

 

Jim Rutherford gave up how much for McCann only to turn around and get a 7th and a nobody just over 2 years later??? Woulda been better off keeping his picks and flipping those players individually for picks because Pittsburgh is in a serious talent defecit. In a few years They are going to be where Benning was when he first took over. We’ll see how long it takes them and Boston to become contenders again after their top guys are all gone or washed up.

 

This team sure could have used that “foundational” player the past 2 seasons. Cant kill a penalty, outside of Horvat, no one can win draws. No one outside of Schenn blocks shots, this team cant protect any lead they have…. Calling a player “Foundational” is not calling them the face of the franchise. He is part of the foundation of what you need on a team to win games and go deep in playoffs. If you have no foundation to support your star players, you’ll forever be trying to outscore your problems like Van has been doing the past 2 years and Edmonton since drafting McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

 

Also people drop the bloody Tanev Markstrom and Toffoli crap. You go and sign those 3 and you’re way deeper in cap hell when Hughes and Petey needed deals, Miller, Horvat and Boeser coming up etc. Marky “sucks at hockey” Tanev is injured every year and when CGY needed him last year in the playoffs, he had to play through 3 big injuries. What good does that do a team when he is almost never 100%. Toffoli is a declining player.

 

It is well known that COVID flattened the cap. PRIOR TO ACQUIRING TOFFOLI, which was PRIOR TO COVID… The cap was announced to rise to 84-88mil. There isnt much JB can do about that, while also being handcuffed with Lou’s cap recapture penalty.

 

Also what guarantees are there with that 9th overall? Vancouver needed D, we got OEL who is not a bad player, we also snagged Garland who has value. Garland wont get you your 9th back, but I bet he’d return a high 2nd or very bottom 1st at last TDL with the season was having.

 

 

To believe that anyone could have turned this team around faster is absolute insanity.

Bennings obstacles to overcome in under 8 years:

1. zero prospects

2. aging core with little to no value

3. Cap recapture penalty

4. NMC’s from previous regime

5. Flat cap

6. 2 expansion drafts

Vancouver 100% would have been a playoff team in that 2020-21 season had COVID not destroy our entire team and put our season on pause for a month and have JT Miller call the league out on their BS trying to force them back to work so quickly.

 

2 playoff seasons while rebuilding without doing a full tear down. Had COVID not hit the locker room like it did,  that would have been a 3rd season of playoffs. We were 5 wins away from being a playoff team with the 19 games in 30 days AFTER being shut down for a month from COVID, which people dont realize we also started our season with 18 games in 30 days and didnt have a single practice until game 13. We had game day skates but no actual practices until 1/4 way through the season. And last year, if Pettersson didnt sit out and miss camp and take 43 games to get going, we would have yet again been a playoff team and a hot team going into playoffs. Everyone was firing on all cylinders and that coulda been a helluva playoff run when everyone is playing their best.

 

Benning did far more good than he did bad. His situation coming in, he had to be absolutely perfect or damn close to it, otherwise we’d be stuck in snow spinning our tires. 
 

Its taken NJD 12 years to become a top team and have only made playoffs once in that span.

They had so many more assets to work with and still it took them 12 years. We could talk about Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto, Arizona (forever) Florida… there sooo many teams that are either still stuck sucking with all these high picks, or they are clinging to life on generational talent and are 1 injury away from another lotto pick. The teams with generational players like Matthews and McDavid are a mess behind their next supporting player. They’re constantly digging through the scrap bin looking at washed up has beens. I mean look at McDavid he’s only been on a playoff team just over 50% of the time. He’s been swept twice. Whats the point of making playoffs if you’re just going to get swept? He’s been in the playoffs 2 more times than we have lol.

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I go all the way back to the 2012-2013 Season................where our rebuild should have started

 

Hank and Danny, Edler, Bieska, Burrows Higgins, Vanek, and Hansen should all have been traded.....personally, I would have traded them for picks in the 2015-2016 season, where the teams getting them would have started to decline. Yes some had NTC's, but we all see those types of clauses waved

 

Later moves.........acquiring Baertschi, Vey, Sutter, Gudbranson, Bonino, Toffoli, Garland and OEL, should never have happened, and Markstrom should have been moved earlier. 

 

Eriksson and Myers should never have been signed, And Tanev should never have been let go!

 

The picks lost by either letting them walk, or trading them away, has cost this franchise dearly. 

 

But the most glaring mistakes aside from that are Juolevi (2016 5th OA) and Virtanen (2014 6th OA) picks, where extremely costly, and picks you can not afford to miss on. Not to mention the early 2nds squandered on Vey and Baertschi, and now our 2023-2024 2nd.

 

I will not even start to compile a list of picks lost by all the above, but I do know that CDC was against moving the Sedin's, which I to this day, disagree with.

 

To say we would have dropped further in the standings, and may have had even earlier picks is hind sight, but true.

 

But, I will say, as long as the Canuck fan base plays the Jekle and Hyde with the wins and losses, then Aqualini, will not get the message. 

 

Further to all the above, Aqualini needs to stand back, and needs to make it abundantly clear he has, and with that Rutherford and Alvin need to look no further than the Canucks own recent history, as a road map, as to what not to do.

 

IMO, the moving of Horvat and Miller are both paramount to us being competitive 3/4 years from now. As is letting the Myers contract run it's length is imperative. Collectively that 20 to 22 million in cap saved over the next 2 years, and along with the picks and prospects gained, and along with our own fall, it will set us up for a proper constructed team, down the road, for many years of top 10 placements, and many playoff runs.

 

I am also personally not against moving Hughes and Pettersson down the road, if needed. And if you ask why..........ask how much difference they made last night. Real drivers do not take games off, or seldom do, and if not moved they need drivers to lead them.

Good points, to justify selling and doing what Blake, had successfully done with LA: a successful quick rebuild.  I always go back to Aquaman and his tendency to handcuffed his FO, by signing them to short term deals - which forces them to make shortsighted moves.  Ultimately, until the fanbased forces his hand, by not being satisfied with regular season wins, Aquaman shortsighted plans will continue cause it is still a profitable endeavor.  I can NOW understand, why Yzerman & other good GM's are the way they are cause being an executive in a non traditional market, forces them to be creative in the short term, whilst being mindful of the future - just in case the "win now" gamble, goes south cause fan engagement in a non traditional market, is a lot more fickle, than in Vancouver - where a regular season win or winning streak, ever so often, is still enough to appease most of the fanbased....

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I am watching the same game but those two are a mess, especially when they are being pressured. As for last night's game, Minnesota played a playoff style game: they were battling hard, in the dirty area(s) and the Canucks weren't interested.  The D core, is soft & bad when pressured and a good coaching staff, are able to recognize & exploit those flaws.  Anyways, credit to Martin for keep it close.

 

This roster has no chance, in a hard playoff series, unless a goalie get real hot.

Every team relies on a hot goalie in playoffs. That is ultimately the difference in every single playoff series and cup winning team.

This is still very much the same team that was steam rolling everyone last season after a coaching change. This year they have easily added better players up front without question. Why isnt it working? Perhaps this comes down to new systems under the new coaching hires.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Every team relies on a hot goalie in playoffs. That is ultimately the difference in every single playoff series and cup winning team.

This is still very much the same team that was steam rolling everyone last season after a coaching change. This year they have easily added better players up front without question. Why isnt it working? Perhaps this comes down to new systems under the new coaching hires.

We won a lot of games last year because Demko stole them.  JR pointed that out multiple times.  

[ShawnAntoski]

40 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Every team relies on a hot goalie in playoffs. That is ultimately the difference in every single playoff series and cup winning team.

This is still very much the same team that was steam rolling everyone last season after a coaching change. This year they have easily added better players up front without question. Why isnt it working? Perhaps this comes down to new systems under the new coaching hires.

The lose of Walker & Shaw were a big lose. As for the roster, it is playoff fodder, at best; and when it comes to the playoffs, it isn't about getting hot - rather, it is all about the LUCK of the match ups.  The current Canucks' roster has no heart, D core is soft and most of the forwards are not interested, in playing any D.  The Cup drought will continue and if look back at the 2011 roster, it was mostly consisted of homegrown talents, drafted by Nonis & Burke.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We won a lot of games last year because Demko stole them.  JR pointed that out multiple times.  

Good point - Alf and it is his POV, that keeps the playoff chasing strategy, a profitable endeavor for Aquaman.   Anyways, we might have to wait a little longer - for a Cup.   

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

You are what is wrong with this fan base..........Meyers is out of position all the time, and OEL is soft and getting slower. Miller for the most part uses his energy playing offense and quits alot of the time. Yes, they look good in the wins, and equally as bad in the losses, and since we loose more than we win, that says volumes.

 

The trouble and why I say that about you (Sorry for getting personal) is you are not holding them accountable..........and as someone said above, as long as Aqualini is getting his $$$, there is no problem. So, as long as you shell out your dollars, nothing will change.

 

 

You are what is wrong with this fan base. Myers is the only f***ing guy covering for Stillman ffs. Myers is constantly the only guy dealing with 2 on 1s next is OEL. So if they are out of position, WHY IS THERE A 2 ON 1 OR 3 ON 1 LIKE LAST NIGHT.

 

holding a dman accountable for baby sitting Stillman???

 

Heres who needs to be held accountable

Boudreau for his braindead roster choices. Why is Burroughs out?

What the f*** is wrong with Yeo’s systems

Demko’s piss poor performances

the dumba$$ who keeps OEL and Myers split up. THEY WERE OUR BEST PAIR ALL SEASON LAST YEAR AND IN THE TOP AT 5V5 WHY F***ING CHANGE THAT TO TEACH STILLMAN HOW TO FCKING PLAY HOCKEY?!!!!

 

Remember Travis Greens comments “this is what I have to work with”?????

Bruce stepped in and had no issues with that same roster, he changed things around. 
Right now the problem is how they are using this roster. This is without a doubt a far better team on paper. They are failing to stick to what worked and its also an issue with player performance.

[AnthonyG]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We won a lot of games last year because Demko stole them.  JR pointed that out multiple times.  

So what did JR do??? HE ADDED FORWARDS TO FIX THE PROBLEM??? IS HE BRAINDEAD???? If you know your goalie is saving you.. MAYBE… just MAYBE… try fixing the blueline, instead of trying to outscore your problem.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

You are what is wrong with this fan base. Myers is the only f***ing guy covering for Stillman ffs. Myers is constantly the only guy dealing with 2 on 1s next is OEL. So if they are out of position, WHY IS THERE A 2 ON 1 OR 3 ON 1 LIKE LAST NIGHT.

 

holding a dman accountable for baby sitting Stillman???

 

Heres who needs to be held accountable

Boudreau for his braindead roster choices. Why is Burroughs out?

What the f*** is wrong with Yeo’s systems

Demko’s piss poor performances

the dumba$$ who keeps OEL and Myers split up. THEY WERE OUR BEST PAIR ALL SEASON LAST YEAR AND IN THE TOP AT 5V5 WHY F***ING CHANGE THAT TO TEACH STILLMAN HOW TO FCKING PLAY HOCKEY?!!!!

 

Remember Travis Greens comments “this is what I have to work with”?????

Bruce stepped in and had no issues with that same roster, he changed things around. 
Right now the problem is how they are using this roster. This is without a doubt a far better team on paper. They are failing to stick to what worked and its also an issue with player performance.

[ShawnAntoski]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The poster he was responding to, was using triggerring words...

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

You are what is wrong with this fan base. Myers is the only f***ing guy covering for Stillman ffs. Myers is constantly the only guy dealing with 2 on 1s next is OEL. So if they are out of position, WHY IS THERE A 2 ON 1 OR 3 ON 1 LIKE LAST NIGHT.

 

holding a dman accountable for baby sitting Stillman???

 

Heres who needs to be held accountable

Boudreau for his braindead roster choices. Why is Burroughs out?

What the f*** is wrong with Yeo’s systems

Demko’s piss poor performances

the dumba$$ who keeps OEL and Myers split up. THEY WERE OUR BEST PAIR ALL SEASON LAST YEAR AND IN THE TOP AT 5V5 WHY F***ING CHANGE THAT TO TEACH STILLMAN HOW TO FCKING PLAY HOCKEY?!!!!

 

Remember Travis Greens comments “this is what I have to work with”?????

Bruce stepped in and had no issues with that same roster, he changed things around. 
Right now the problem is how they are using this roster. This is without a doubt a far better team on paper. They are failing to stick to what worked and its also an issue with player performance.

How did the 13 million dollar pairing, work out in the beginning of the year ?

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[AnthonyG]

4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

The lose of Walker & Shaw were a big lose. As for the roster, it is playoff fodder, at best; and when it comes to the playoffs, it isn't about getting hot - rather, it is all about the LUCK of the match ups.  The current Canucks' roster has no heart, D core is soft and most of the forwards are not interested, in playing any D.  The Cup drought will continue and if look back the 2011 roster, was mostly consisted of homegrown talents, drafted by Nonis & Burke.  

Playoffs are entirely about timing. TBL vs CBJ, one team cooled down, one team got hot.

2012 LA

2019 Blues

2016 and 17 Pens 

it was all timing and getting hot. Having a hot goalie. Hell Boston in 2011, Tim Thomas was hot, Luongo was not.

 

Look how long after Burke and Nonis drafted those players, it took to become that. ‘99-04 were where we drafted the biggest pieces. Took 11 years after the twins were drafted to get there. We only drafted Pettersson and Hughes in the last 5 years. Take a sip of patience and have a dose of reality. WE STILL NEED SOME TIME TO GO THROUGH GROWING PAINS. Everyone gives Gillis the credit for 2011, when it was largely all thanks to the previous 2 gms and they never got to see the team they built, go on to tear the league a part for years, other than from the other side of the ice.

Bennings early work, will be what sticks around and is part of our contending years. These kids are still a few years away from their prime, or did you all forget they’re still kids??

[AnthonyG]

3 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

How did the 13 million dollar pairing, work out in the beginning of the year ?

Ive laid that out many times, this season they were still a top pair in the tops of the league. Ahead of Cernak and Hedman. 
 

Edit: go check the stuff Ive commented

Edited December 12, 2022 by AnthonyG

[Alflives]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Playoffs are entirely about timing. TBL vs CBJ, one team cooled down, one team got hot.

2012 LA

2019 Blues

2016 and 17 Pens 

it was all timing and getting hot. Having a hot goalie. Hell Boston in 2011, Tim Thomas was hot, Luongo was not.

 

Look how long after Burke and Nonis drafted those players, it took to become that. ‘99-04 were where we drafted the biggest pieces. Took 11 years after the twins were drafted to get there. We only drafted Pettersson and Hughes in the last 5 years. Take a sip of patience and have a dose of reality. WE STILL NEED SOME TIME TO GO THROUGH GROWING PAINS. Everyone gives Gillis the credit for 2011, when it was largely all thanks to the previous 2 gms and they never got to see the team they built, go on to tear the league a part for years, other than from the other side of the ice.

Bennings early work, will be what sticks around and is part of our contending years. These kids are still a few years away from their prime, or did you all forget they’re still kids??

Like you, we all love our club and want us to be as good as those great Gillis teams.  IMHAO our owner needs to get out of management’s way so we can collect the young stars needed to become great.  Those Gillis teams had three first ballot Hall of Famers.  Twins drafted 2 and 3.  We traded for Lou (thank you Nonis) and he was drafted 3OA.  Does our current club have those kinds of key core pieces?  We love our guys, but maybe we just don’t have what it takes?  

[ShawnAntoski]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

Playoffs are entirely about timing. TBL vs CBJ, one team cooled down, one team got hot.

2012 LA

2019 Blues

2016 and 17 Pens 

it was all timing and getting hot. Having a hot goalie. Hell Boston in 2011, Tim Thomas was hot, Luongo was not.

 

Look how long after Burke and Nonis drafted those players, it took to become that. ‘99-04 were where we drafted the biggest pieces. Took 11 years after the twins were drafted to get there. We only drafted Pettersson and Hughes in the last 5 years. Take a sip of patience and have a dose of reality. WE STILL NEED SOME TIME TO GO THROUGH GROWING PAINS. Everyone gives Gillis the credit for 2011, when it was largely all thanks to the previous 2 gms and they never got to see the team they built, go on to tear the league a part for years, other than from the other side of the ice.

Bennings early work, will be what sticks around and is part of our contending years. These kids are still a few years away from their prime, or did you all forget they’re still kids??

You forgot to mention the over 25/26 players, that are eating up most of the cap and are ALSO, looking to get paid at the end of the year: Bear, Kuz and Horvat - where is the cap coming from cause there are some obvious anchors on the contract, that would take a miracle to get off the books.  If you have been paying attention the same shortsighted - ever retooling plan for futures has been on play since 2011 and Aquaman can afford to keep gambling on "win now" moves cause it is still profitable.

 

As for the playoffs, I would still argue it is mostly about the match up and some luck - unless, the team is favored by the league to win: 94 Rags and 11 Bruins.

[ShawnAntoski]

13 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Ive laid that out many times, this season they were still a top pair in the tops of the league. Ahead of Cernak and Hedman. 
 

Edit: go check the stuff Ive commented

An expensive top pair, that STILL breaks down when pressured.  Perhaps good enough in the regular season but a POTENTIAL hot mess, in the playoffs.  

 

Just wondering, if you can quickly elaborate, what made them a top pairing, whilst, the team was still garbage ?

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

35 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

So what did JR do??? HE ADDED FORWARDS TO FIX THE PROBLEM??? IS HE BRAINDEAD???? If you know your goalie is saving you.. MAYBE… just MAYBE… try fixing the blueline, instead of trying to outscore your problem.

The players that ideally should be brought in, are drafted in the top 5/10 but the team is fixated on drafting, in the teens or early twenties.  JR has won cups but he can't perform miracles, in a 3 year period; and his signing is looking like the Messier signing: a publicity stunt for Aquaman/Keenan and their last chance to cash in.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Viper007]

To be fair, if we are basing this past year under this management team, they would be making the playoffs with 97 give or take points?  It's just this year that's giving people a sour taste in their mouths with the 0-5-2 start, coupled with blowing multiple 2 goal leads.  The goal was to make the playoffs.  They still have a chance at that.  Let's see how it plays out.

[KirkSave]

7 hours ago, aGENT said:

Easier to make hits playing wing. Already along the boards, less defensive responsibilities etc

Miller had a high number of hits last year where he predominantly played at C. Hitting is a part of his game whether he is at C or W.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 minute ago, KirkSave said:

Miller had a high number of hits last year where he predominantly played at C. Hitting is a part of his game whether he is at C or W.

He was highly motivated, as well