[PGT] Nashville Predators at Vancouver Canucks | Mar. 06, 2023

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

It is conservative numbers slotted in to illustrate how you were talking out your ass about having a bunch of cap space available.

 

Do a tiny amount of actual work yourself and math to come up with a better roster than we have now that doesn’t magically invent a way to get rid of all our bad contracts.

 

$35 million for 14 players… of which Petterson and Hronek will take a massive chunk just to re-sign.

People don't like to accept reality. They just do stuff like pencil Karlsson in as 3C, run with 20 players, or my favorite sign 2 top RD's for peanuts, trade Myers for nothing, sell OEL when his value is high, also known as nothing, and the same with Pearson, Boeser, and Poolman. And they say it with a straight face. Some people just honestly aren't good with numbers and think magic happens ... who knows with the others and oh yeah the cap is also going up 3 mil per year for the forseeable future. I'm glad none of these people are investing any of my money. That's for sure.

 

Lekkerimaki Raty Karlsson

Klimovich Aman Joshua

 

That's a cup contending bottom 6 in 2 years for sure 

[aliboy]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

11 for Petey, and he’s well worth it. 7 for Hronek, and for a great young D, who carries our second pairing, he’s worth that number.

Myers’ contract is over when Petey and Hronek contracts start. Boeser will be traded (with retention) clearing 5 mil. Garland will be traded clearing 5 mil. OEL will be bought out clearing (on average) 5 mil. That’s 21 mil cleared before the Petey 

Hronek contract start. 10 mil left for other signings. Plus the cap we get from cheaper guys coming off the books. 

We will have our core: Petey, Demko, Hughes, Miller, Hronek. (38 mil) Ans we will have supporting players: Kuz, Myk, Pods, Aman, Joshua (making 14-15 mil) lots of extra cap room to fill out our roster with excellent supporting players. 

Agreed Alf, they'll find a way to navigate the cap. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

OEL will be bought out.  Boeser and Garland aren't hanging around either.  One or both will be gone by next summer.  Bear isn't going to be signing here for $2.75 million if he is on the 3rd pairing.  He is plan B or even C right now, which is why they stopped negotiations.  We aren't going to sign a top pairing guy for $6 million to play with Hughes.  We'll get someone like Schenn for half the price.  Poolman will be on LTIR, so he's not even in the lineup.

 

That's almost $30 million I chopped off your projections, which tells me that nothing is concrete and there are alot of decisions that still need to happen before the 2024 season begins...

Don’t be lazy and make up numbers, do the actual work.

Buy out OEL this summer and in the 2024 year you are talking about there is almost $4.8 million dollar penalty.  Replacing him with another even average top 4D will easily cost $4-6 million (even Myers cost us $6 million with a lower cap ceiling for Gods sake).  So you are spending $8.8 - 10.8 cap for that roster spot that was costing us $7.26.  More than by keeping him even if you somehow found a cheap D man for $3 million who was capable of top 4 play (good luck with that).  You aren’t saving $7 million with that move like you have pretended, you have probably spent an extra $3 million and made the cap situation even worse!  … sorry to burst your bubble.  You have also screwed the team’s future by adding dead cap for many years to come.   Good job so far!

 

The retention teams were reportedly asking on Boeser was to make his cap hit $4 million.  Even if you could move him by just retaining $1.6 million, and save $5 million in cap, you are going to need to spend about $2-3 million to replace him on the wing for a player that likely won’t produce as much.  So you have saved $2 million and made the roster worse.

 

Same with Garland, move him and hope to spend $2-3 million on a player for that roster spot.

 

So far your moves have netted us out to saving a couple million dollars…. Not quite the $30 million you invented.

 

It they didn’t intend on signing Bear, why not trade him at the deadline.  If we slot him or a similarly priced player into the top pairing like you suggest then we can save some bucks, of course the team will still have a horrifying defence…. But hey, you don’t care about winning so no big deal.

 

Poolman hasn’t retired, and we don’t get to erase his deal from wishful thinking.

 

So your magical thinking has saved us a grand total of about $4-6 million, still well short of making us cap compliant.  With all that, we have a defence as bad or worse than now, and have stripped a bunch of our forward depth by removing players who are producing and replacing them with unknown cheap players.

 

That definitely sounds Benningesque…. Clearly a plan that will take us from bottom

dwellers to contentions!  Congrats!

 

I guess math is hard…

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Provost

[Ted Lasso]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

Who though?  Who were all of these guys with term on their deals that got moved at the TDL?  There was a whole lot of expiring deals getting dealt,  but not much else.

 

Who do you suggest we should have moved at the TDL that was so desperate it couldn’t wait until the off-season?

 

If don’t have a couple of things sorted by the draft,  I’ll have some concern.  Until

then I’m choosing to buy into what they are doing,  because I really like most of it.

Exactly. The only one I can think of is Neiderreiter, who is signed through next year, but he plays a heavier game, and makes less than Boeser.

 

I’m on board with our trade returns so far, and If PA is confident we’ll clear cap, then why stress it. I’m guessing he had a few GM’s confirm interest in off-season trades, and they have a few scenarios mapped out for buyouts.

 

[jyu]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

Don’t be lazy and make up numbers, do the actual work.

Buy out OEL this summer and in the 2024 year you are talking about there is almost $4.8 million dollar penalty.  Replacing him with another even average top 4D will easily cost $4-6 million (even Myers cost us $6 million with a lower cap ceiling for Gods sake).  So you are spending $8.8 - 10.8 cap for that roster spot that was costing us $7.26.  More than by keeping him even if you somehow found a cheap D man for $3 million who was capable of top 4 play (good luck with that).  You aren’t saving $7 million with that move like you have pretended, you have probably spent an extra $3 million and made the cap situation even worse!  … sorry to burst your bubble.  You have also screwed the team’s future by adding dead cap for many years to come.   Good job so far!

 

The retention teams were reportedly asking on Boeser was to make his cap hit $4 million.  Even if you could move him by just retaining $1.6 million, and save $5 million in cap, you are going to need to spend about $2-3 million to replace him on the wing for a player that likely won’t produce as much.  So you have saved $2 million and made the roster worse.

 

Same with Garland, move him and hope to spend $2-3 million on a player for that roster spot.

 

So far your moves have netted us out to saving a couple million dollars…. Not quite the $30 million you invented.

 

It they didn’t intend on signing Bear, why not trade him at the deadline.  If we slot him or a similarly priced player into the top pairing like you suggest then we can save some bucks, of course the team will still have a horrifying defence…. But hey, you don’t care about winning so no big deal.

 

Poolman hasn’t retired, and we don’t get to erase his deal from wishful thinking.

 

So your magical thinking has saved us a grand total of about $4-6 million, still well short of making us cap compliant.  With all that, we have a defence as bad or worse than now, and have stripped a bunch of our forward depth by removing players who are producing and replacing them with unknown cheap players.

 

That definitely sounds Benningesque…. Clearly a plan that will take us from bottom

dwellers to contentions!  Congrats!

 

I guess math is hard…

 

The notion of OEL buy out is crazy. Allvin should be fired for even bringing it up. 
 

my guess is that Allvin will be able to clear Myers with a sweetener— a cost of which will be higher than any of us would like. 
 

then he will trade Garland and replace him with kravtsov. 
 

boeser is staying. 
 

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, Provost said:

Don’t be lazy and make up numbers, do the actual work.

Buy out OEL this summer and in the 2024 year you are talking about there is almost $4.8 million dollar penalty.  Replacing him with another even average top 4D will cost $4-6 million (even Myers cost us $6 million with a lower cap for Gods sake).  So you are spending $8.8 - 10.8 cap for that roster spot that was costing us $7.26.  More than by keeping him even if you somehow found a cheap D man for $3 million who was capable of top 4 play (good luck with that).  You aren’t saving $7 million with that move, you have probably spent an extra $3 million… sorry to burst your bubble.  You have also screwed the team’s future by adding dead cap for many years to come.

 

The retention teams were reportedly asking on Boeser was to make his cap hit $4 million.  Even if you could move him by just retaining $1.6 million, and save $5 million in cap, you are going to need to spend about $2-3 million to replace him on the wing for a player that likely won’t produce as much.  So you have saved $2 million and made the roster worse.

 

Same with Garland, move him and hope to spend $2-3 million on a player for that roster spot.

 

So far your moves have netted us out to saving a couple million dollars…. Not quite the $30 million you invented.

 

It they didn’t intend on signing Bear, why not trade him at the deadline.  If we slot him or a similarly priced player into the top pairing like you suggest then we can save some bucks, of course the team will still have a horrifying defence…. But hey, you don’t care about winning so no big deal.

 

Poolman hasn’t retired, and we don’t get to erase his deal from wishful thinking.

 

So your magical thinking has saved us a grand total of about $4-6 million, still well short of making us cap compliant.  With all that, we have a defence as bad or worse than now, and have stripped a bunch of our forward depth by removing players who are producing and replacing them with unknown cheap players.

 

That definitely sounds Benningesque…. Congrats!

 

You are the one making up numbers my friend, so I will do the work for you.

 

First off, OEL's buyout for 2024 isn't $4.8 million, it's $2.3 million as per CapFriendly.  So if we sign Gavrikov to a $4.5 million deal then it does pretty much wash out, but there is a bit of savings there, not the extra cap you are referring to.  Secondly, you are assuming that Boeser and Garland after next season are still untradeable unless we retain.  Like I said, things can change and so I am not going to make that assumption to support your theory.  There is still a possibility that we can move one or both off of the books completely.

 

Thirdly, Bear is plan B or even plan C.  We are not signing him for $2.75 million to play on the 3rd pairing.  We will get someone else to play for $900k.  Fourthly, Poolman will be on LTIR, last I checked that means we can go over the cap by $2.5 million, so it technically increases our total cap by that same amount.

 

Maybe I can illustrate by player to make it easier.  This is our 2024 roster with a salary cap projection of $87.5 million as per CapFriendly:

 

Kuzmenko (5.5)       Pettersson (11)    Beauvillier (5)

Podkolzin (2.5)        Miller (8)              Kravtsov (1.5)

Mikheyev (4.75)      3C (3)                  Garland (5)

Joshua (1.5)          Aman (1)             4 RW (1)

13th F (1)

 

Hughes (7.85)         2RD (3)

Gavrikov (4.5)         Hronek (7)

Tryamkin (1.5)        Schenn (1.5)

Brisebois (1)           Livingstone (1)

 

Demko (5)    Backup (1.5)

 

OEL buyout - 2.3

Poolman LTIR - 2.5

 

Boeser is traded in this scenario.  I kept Garland on the roster just for the sake of argument that we can't get rid of both.  Total salary without Poolman is $86.9 million, so we are below the cap by $600k.  I should be a capologist.

[Provost]

Just now, jyu said:

The notion of OEL buy out is crazy. Allvin should be fired for even bringing it up. 
 

my guess is that Allvin will be able to clear Myers with a sweetener— a cost of which will be higher than any of us would like. 
 

then he will trade Garland and replace him with kravtsov. 
 

boeser is staying. 
 

I agree that Myers should be able to be moved.  The rosters people were talking about were for 2024-25 so he would be out of the picture regardless.

 

Kravtsov is definitely a hopeful to replace a more expensive winger.  On the downside, he has a grand total career 11 points in the NHL with 52 games played and even in the KHL and AHL never even cracked a .4 PPG pace.  Maybe there is something more, but even if he replicates his KHL and AHL pace, that is a 30 point player and a bog downgrade from Garland.  
 

I don’t think we would retain enough on Boeser to make him trade able and be able to replace his production.

 

The really weird thing about the market right now is that if a team went out and signed a free agent wingers with their production, they would pay as much for those players as we are paying for Garland and Boeser.  For some reason another team’s guy with term has no value or negative value.  They aren’t bad values, they just happen to be more expensive options at the one position we have cheaper depth.  That depth will be downgrades but still NHL calibre players.

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, jyu said:

The notion of OEL buy out is crazy. Allvin should be fired for even bringing it up. 
 

my guess is that Allvin will be able to clear Myers with a sweetener— a cost of which will be higher than any of us would like. 
 

then he will trade Garland and replace him with kravtsov. 
 

boeser is staying. 
 

Makes sense, Probably with either our first in 2023 (if that's possible?) or 2024 first with a cheaper defender in return. Then we'll really all be rocking and rolling and everyone will be having a good ole time.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You are the one making up numbers my friend, so I will do the work for you.

 

First off, OEL's buyout for 2024 isn't $4.8 million, it's $2.3 million as per CapFriendly.  So if we sign Gavrikov to a $4.5 million deal then it does pretty much wash out, but there is a bit of savings there, not the extra cap you are referring to.  Secondly, you are assuming that Boeser and Garland after next season are still untradeable unless we retain.  Like I said, things can change and so I am not going to make that assumption to support your theory.  There is still a possibility that we can move one or both off of the books completely.

 

Thirdly, Bear is plan B or even plan C.  We are not signing him for $2.75 million to play on the 3rd pairing.  We will get someone else to play for $900k.  Fourthly, Poolman will be on LTIR, last I checked that means we can go over the cap by $2.5 million, so it technically increases our total cap by that same amount.

 

Maybe I can illustrate by player to make it easier.  This is our 2024 roster with a salary cap projection of $87.5 million as per CapFriendly:

 

Kuzmenko (5.5)       Pettersson (11)    Beauvillier (5)

Podkolzin (2.5)        Miller (8)              Kravtsov (1.5)

Mikheyev (4.75)      3C (3)                  Garland (5)

Joshua (1.5)          Aman (1)             4 RW (1)

13th F (1)

 

Hughes (7.85)         2RD (3)

Gavrikov (4.5)         Hronek (7)

Tryamkin (1.5)        Schenn (1.5)

Brisebois (1)           Livingstone (1)

 

Demko (5)    Backup (1.5)

 

OEL buyout - 2.3

Poolman LTIR - 2.5

 

Boeser is traded in this scenario.  I kept Garland on the roster just for the sake of argument that we can't get rid of both.  Total salary without Poolman is $86.9 million, so we are below the cap by $600k.  I should be a capologist.

Not bad the only problem is that is one garbage hockey team. Decent effort though on the numbers.

 

Lol at that top 6. My grandma's beer league team has more grit and two way play. Imagine them in the playoffs.  

 

Priceless!

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, jyu said:

The notion of OEL buy out is crazy. Allvin should be fired for even bringing it up. 
 

my guess is that Allvin will be able to clear Myers with a sweetener— a cost of which will be higher than any of us would like. 
 

then he will trade Garland and replace him with kravtsov. 
 

boeser is staying. 
 

That would be as bad as buying out OEL, when all they have to do is keep him until the tdl and actually get something for him.  If they can trade him without adding, that's fine, but paying a team to take a good dman on an expiring contract makes no sense

[Provost]

39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You are the one making up numbers my friend, so I will do the work for you.

 

First off, OEL's buyout for 2024 isn't $4.8 million, it's $2.3 million as per CapFriendly.  So if we sign Gavrikov to a $4.5 million deal then it does pretty much wash out, but there is a bit of savings there, not the extra cap you are referring to.  Secondly, you are assuming that Boeser and Garland after next season are still untradeable unless we retain.  Like I said, things can change and so I am not going to make that assumption to support your theory.  There is still a possibility that we can move one or both off of the books completely.

 

Thirdly, Bear is plan B or even plan C.  We are not signing him for $2.75 million to play on the 3rd pairing.  We will get someone else to play for $900k.  Fourthly, Poolman will be on LTIR, last I checked that means we can go over the cap by $2.5 million, so it technically increases our total cap by that same amount.

 

Maybe I can illustrate by player to make it easier.  This is our 2024 roster with a salary cap projection of $87.5 million as per CapFriendly:

 

Kuzmenko (5.5)       Pettersson (11)    Beauvillier (5)

Podkolzin (2.5)        Miller (8)              Kravtsov (1.5)

Mikheyev (4.75)      3C (3)                  Garland (5)

Joshua (1.5)          Aman (1)             4 RW (1)

13th F (1)

 

Hughes (7.85)         2RD (3)

Gavrikov (4.5)         Hronek (7)

Tryamkin (1.5)        Schenn (1.5)

Brisebois (1)           Livingstone (1)

 

Demko (5)    Backup (1.5)

 

OEL buyout - 2.3

Poolman LTIR - 2.5

 

Boeser is traded in this scenario.  I kept Garland on the roster just for the sake of argument that we can't get rid of both.  Total salary without Poolman is $86.9 million, so we are below the cap by $600k.  I should be a capologist.

By George you are right!

All we need to do is get a bunch of players to sign for less than market rate and hope for some LTIR as well as some team suddenly taking on a player we have been trying to move for years…. and it is possible to barely squeeze under the cap by just having a worse roster than now that will fight for a lottery pick!

Genius!

 

Two of your top six wingers together have scored a grand total of 22 career NHL goals and 43 points in a combined 161 games played.  Neither of them were even big scorers in lower leagues.  If we can  dream about a whole lot of improvement from them, maybe both those guys can reach 30-40 points and providing some solid 3rd line level production.  

 

I sure hope Hughes likes playing 30 minutes a night because that defence is some serious dog crap.  A third pairing you can’t trust to be on the ice very much, and some random $3 million dollar RHD that the rest of the league has overlooked and can play 20+ minutes a night.  Hey, maybe we can get Hamonic back… oh wait, he will probably cost more than that.

 

Yikes… I think you just proved my point right there.  With a bunch of really optimistic assumptions you can put together a crappy roster that could maybe get into a wildcard spot if literally everything went their way.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Provost

[Elias Pettersson]

24 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Not bad the only problem is that is one garbage hockey team. Decent effort though on the numbers.

 

Lol at that top 6. My grandma's beer league team has more grit and two way play. Imagine them in the playoffs.  

 

Priceless!

Why don't you do the homework assignment to see if you can come up with a team that can compete with the Maple Leafs?

 

Oh wait, we already have a team that can kick their a**...   

[Ted Lasso]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why don't you do the homework assignment to see if you can come up with a team that can compete with the Maple Leafs?

 

Oh wait, we already have a team that can kick their a**...   

@Provost it’s easy to sit in the cheap seats and throw shade. Let’s say the team is yours - show us your realistic moves and roster

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why don't you do the homework assignment to see if you can come up with a team that can compete with the Maple Leafs?

 

Oh wait, we already have a team that can kick their a**...   

Wait, you mean the team that is 30 points above us in the standings and still can’t get a sniff at a Cup?

 

How does that make your argument?

[Ted Lasso]

40 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Makes sense, Probably with either our first in 2023 (if that's possible?) or 2024 first with a cheaper defender in return. Then we'll really all be rocking and rolling and everyone will be having a good ole time.

You’ve either lost touch with reality, or forgot your sarcasm emoji 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

By George you are right!

All we need to do is get a bunch of players to sign for less than market rate and hope for some LTIR as well as some team suddenly taking on a player we have been trying to move for years…. and it is possible to barely squeeze under the cap by just having a worse roster than now that will fight for a lottery pick!

Genius!

 

Two of your top six wingers together have scored a grand total of 22 career NHL goals and 43 points in a combined 161 games played.  Neither of them were even big scorers in lower leagues.  If we can  dream about a whole lot of improvement from them, maybe both those guys can reach 30-40 points and providing some solid 3rd line level production.  

 

I sure hope Hughes likes playing 30 minutes a night bedside that defence is some serious dog crap.  A third pairing you can’t trust to be on the ice very much, and some random $3 million dollar RHD that the rest of the league has overlooked.  Hey, maybe we can get Hamonic back… oh wait, he will probably cost more than that.

 

Yikes… I think you just proved my point right there.

Gavrikov and Schenn are dog crap?  And we add Hronek to the D but Hughes still has to play 30 minutes?  Yeah, I don't think so but keep pushing that fake narrative.  We just beat Toronto like a piñata WITHOUT Gavrikov, Hronek and Schenn in the lineup.  Imagine what we can do WITH them?  Also, that RHD that will be playing with Hughes doesn't need to be the second coming of Shea Weber.  Hughes only needs a guy like a Scott Mayfield, who is an upgrade on an older Schenn.  Even an Andrew Peeke would work, who would be making even less than $3 million.

 

I have Mikheyev on the 3rd line.  So, if you want to bump Kravtsov to the 3rd line and move up Mikheyev then go for it.  Mikheyev on one leg was on pace for 50 points this year.  Garland is on pace for 45.  So if you want you can put them with Miller and move down Podkolzin and Kravtsov to the 3rd line with our new 3C.  Whatever works for you.

 

We are winning games with an AHL defence and an AHL goalie.  Imagine when we get some legit Dmen on the roster, a proper 3C and Demko back to being our #1 goalie?  It is going to be priceless!!!

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Wait, you mean the team that is 30 points above us in the standings and still can’t get a sniff at a Cup?

 

How does that make your argument?

Aren't the Mape Leafs a supposed Stanley Cup contender?  They are in 4th place in the entire league right now and just beat another cup contender tonight, New Jersey.  We kicked their a** with an AHL defence.  I am sure with my upgrades to the D we will embarrass them even further...

[EastCoastNucks]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Aren't the Mape Leafs a supposed Stanley Cup contender?  They are in 4th place in the entire league right now and just beat another cup contender tonight, New Jersey.  We kicked their a** with an AHL defence.  I am sure with my upgrades to the D we will embarrass them even further...

Nah, Calgary is the canadian version of the cup team with all the Canucks players they have collected over a couple years

[EastCoastNucks]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gavrikov and Schenn are dog crap?  And we add Hronek to the D but Hughes still has to play 30 minutes?  Yeah, I don't think so but keep pushing that fake narrative.  We just beat Toronto like a piñata WITHOUT Gavrikov, Hronek and Schenn in the lineup.  Imagine what we can do WITH them?  Also, that RHD that will be playing with Hughes doesn't need to be the second coming of Shea Weber.  Hughes only needs a guy like a Scott Mayfield, who is an upgrade on an older Schenn.  Even an Andrew Peeke would work, who would be making even less than $3 million.

 

I have Mikheyev on the 3rd line.  So, if you want to bump Kravtsov to the 3rd line and move up Mikheyev then go for it.  Mikheyev on one leg was on pace for 50 points this year.  Garland is on pace for 45.  So if you want you can put them with Miller and move down Podkolzin and Kravtsov to the 3rd line with our new 3C.  Whatever works for you.

 

We are winning games with an AHL defence and an AHL goalie.  Imagine when we get some legit Dmen on the roster, a proper 3C and Demko back to being our #1 goalie?  It is going to be priceless!!!

Priceless... no not really priceless cause there is the cap. take MIK out of LTIR and suddenly Millar is not affordable. Can we make OEL and Myers go  to LTIR without getting sued for some kind of MALPRACTICE after the Pearson thing? Nope. I wish it was priceless but it has a definate cost buddy!!!

 

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

@Provost it’s easy to sit in the cheap seats and throw shade. Let’s say the team is yours - show us your realistic moves and roster

This all started with me posting a roster with reasonable values for players in slots, and with a price tag for holes that could bring in players to make us a playoff team (not a contender).  I couldn’t get it below around $97 million realistically without having a team that is just plain bad.

 

I am saying and have said that there isn’t a realistic path to contention without entirely blowing it up.  To escape from the bad contracts without mortgaging the future we need to just wait them out, and by that time Hughes and Petey won’t be under club control or just be wanting out.

 

The only plausible out I see is still trading Miller and hoping we get one of the top three centres available in this draft who can be ready in 0-3 years depending on who we got.

 

With that we can reallocate about $5 million of Millers money to another top 4D (the rookie would hit some bonuses and cost about $3 million).

 

So, team tank and hope for a Petey level centre who can provide significant production at low dollars who won’t need a raise until buying out OEL isn’t that costly or the cap has gone up enough to give us breathing room.

 

… hence, hardcore team tank this year.