Tearloch7 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So his limit is one pass per game? The truth is Booth tries to drive the net too often when it isn't there. The result is getting poke checked and turning over the puck. When you do the same thing over and over and over you become predictable and easier to defend against. It's something all three are guilty of on the second line. Two years back Ray/Kes/Sammy were all shooters but there were sure some pretty tic-tac-toe goals between the three of them. Despite being shooters they did pass to each other without being forced by the D. The current second line rarely sets those plays up. Most of the passing is on the cycle or to get out of trouble. There hasn't been much playmaking between the three. They're all playing a little too selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am not a hater, but I do find it funny when people lay out their opinion. Valid as anyone else's opinion, of course, but then claim that for some reason their version is a 'fact' while the opposing opinion is a fairytale...so in response to you, with "FACTS IS FACTS", I present the following... On Tenacity: where did you see tenacity? Mason Raymond 18th place out of the Canucks team in hits last year. Only two players with more than 30 games played had fewer hits last season: The Twins, back to back Art Ross Trophy winners. 22nd on the list for Canucks with Blocked shots last year..Only Daniel of the 'regular' players had fewer blocked shots than Mason. 10 penalty minutes all year. Where is this tenacity you speak of? I think what you are mistaking for Tenacity is his exuberant and speedy attempts to BE tenacious. He does not actually achieve a state of Tenacity however, he reminds me of a guy who is working very hard at looking like he is working very hard..with very little result. Speed and Checking Game: neutralize the rush? I will allow that Raymond had very few giveaways last year, but Tanner Glass and Chris Higgins had even less but his takeaways, which is what your statement implies are very high are only 10th best on the team...and its not just the stars or defensive specialists that are beating: its both! The only people really out of Raymonds class as far as takeaways go is Tambellini, Rome, and Ehrhoff and Ballard (*i am surprised to see that stat, but nonetheless there it is) He is not exactly breathtaking on that statistic..takeaways, when he is really only beating the worst four guys on the team last year by any substantial margin. Kesler and Bieksa, my two favorite guys for team attitude have almost twice as many takeaways as Mason...so i don't see how this leads to him being a neutralizer, with his speed. Similarily 14th on the team in plus minus. 13 other guys were better five on five at shutting down the oponent, more than the opponent shut them down. Not exactly stellar to be in the bottom half and here even Tambellini and Ballard were better. On Blowing smoke: puff puff pass dude...your bogarting all the good smoke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 "When you do the same thing over and over and over you become predictable and easier to defend against." .. who you talkin' about, Willis?, .. the Sedins? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks_dynasty Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Unless Raymond re-signs for $1-1.5M per season on his next contract...I think he'll be shipped out of here in the off-season for a draft pick or a 3rd/4th line C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Optimist Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tenacity: Persistence doggedness pertinacity. I consider Raymond plays with all these qualities. That combined with speed is what makes a 2 way player who plays on the 2nd line. Your 2nd point Don't put words in my mouth I implied nothing and I certainly did not mention Higgins or Hansen. You then make my point by mentioning the invisible man who substituted for Raymond. Why are you even posting man? Regarding Rome, again you circle all the way round and end up making my point. You also keep quoting season figures when we all know it takes a different game in the playoffs. Your last point..............fair enough :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 So his limit is one pass per game? The truth is Booth tries to drive the net too often when it isn't there. The result is getting poke checked and turning over the puck. When you do the same thing over and over and over you become predictable and easier to defend against. It's something all three are guilty of on the second line. Two years back Ray/Kes/Sammy were all shooters but there were sure some pretty tic-tac-toe goals between the three of them. Despite being shooters they did pass to each other without being forced by the D. The current second line rarely sets those plays up. Most of the passing is on the cycle or to get out of trouble. There hasn't been much playmaking between the three. They're all playing a little too selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking13 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So in the afterglow of last night's exciting game, this is how I've been wanting to see the lines for the last three or four weeks now!!! And guess what?? The Canucks had their most complete game in awhile... I'm not trying to claim that I called AV directly and told him to do this... LMAO... But I have been a proponent of this for sometime now...Great to see the energy that Higgins brought with him to the second line and Raymond looked pretty good flanking Pahlsson as well... The Amex line was buzzing for the whole 60 mins, now if only we could get the triplets out of their current funk... Hansen was skating hard last night and I find it quite refreshing that the leaders of this team called a closed door meeting after dropping two lackluster games in a row (granted, the team has been out of sync for some time now)... These next 14 games will serve the team well in further building some chemistry and trust in each other... I for one see this team trending in the right direction and am getting amped for the post-season... Happy Friday to all, VK13 out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipes2539 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 In an effort to try and curb the hate amongst fans, perhaps we should change the title to do we really need him. I think you'd get a lot more fair comments out of that discussion. And to add to that discussion, in my opinion I don't feel we need him anymore. I don't know what it is with him, but ever since that great break out season for him he hasn't been the same, if he's going to remain a perimeter player and not use his speed to drive to the net like he did a couple seasons ago, he's effectively made himself redundant on this team. Alternatively, he could change his focus to work on his defensive game, sign for a lot less, then I think he'd still be a Canuck after this season, but at the rate he's going and with the players we've got, I don't think we'll see him in a Canucks jersey next season. In case anyone is wondering he is an RFA at the end of the year and I don't see him getting anything close to what he's getting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm a big fan of Mason Raymond, and I've been pulling for him to come back after the NHL gave a Boston goon licence to nearly cripple him last year. But time to face the facts. He's been playing unfocused, he's been making bad passes, and fanning on shots, he has ZERO puck sense and confidence right now, and its time he was sat out, allowed to get some perspective on the game and maybe a reset. AV should bring up Weiss, he had chemistry with Malhotra and Lapierre on the fourth line, and he should promote Kassian to the third line. Raymond should sit out a few games and focus on shooting and passing drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai604 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Too bad Weiss plays for Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB for MVP Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Agreed on sitting Raymond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weber's Playoff Beard Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Not saying I oppose to sitting him out.. but how does "sitting him out" give him more "puck sense and confidence"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchburr Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The Canucks should have traded this guy at the deadline, when it was clear that we was expendable. Initially it sounds silly to replace him with Weise, but when you look at the layout of the team, I agree: Raymond should be scratched. Kassian playing with Pahlsson and Hansen is an agressive but defensive line which I like for a 3rd line. Raymond's there now, and he's confusing Hansen with these laps he does around the net...and nobody really notices Pahlsson anyways. Raymond is not what I want in my bottom 6...Weise, Oreskovich, Mancari, Duco or Bitz are all players better geared towards a bottom 6 role than Raymond. Even Malhotra, as bad as it sounds, does not really belong on the 4th line and subsequently the starting roster. Gillis traded scoring for "balance". Having most of the forwards playing like 2nd liners isn't a very good example of balance. We have our top 6, we have 4 of our bottom 6 (Kassian is a gritty energy winger, Lappy is a premier 4th line center, Pahlsson is a premier 3rd line center and Hansen's an ideal 3rd line winger), but Booth is Raymond 2.0 and Pahlsson seems to have permanently replaced Malhotra on the 3rd line. Kassian-Pahlsson-Hansen (15 min/game) Weise-Lapierre-Bitz (5-8 min/game) We know that all six of these players are capable of playing a good game if they are given specific roles. 4 of those 6 guys will fight: 2 heavyweights, 2 middleweights. All of them can hit. Raymond cannot be counted on to hit, let alone fight. I agree, scratch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 can't wait until we unload this guy... #mayraydown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edler's Broken Stickz Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Why raymond only when the rest of the team except for the amex line is playing like trash. I know raymond isn't playing like he used to but can't single him out when more than half the team is playing pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkpoet Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 In all fairness.... Last 5 games: Raymond: 0 points and +1 Daniel: 0 points and -2 Hank: 0 points and -2 Raymond isn't the only one who needs to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwnuck Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 bla bla bla same crap different day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchengc Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 so by benching raymond u will get the sedins going???? are you freaking blind and not see the true reason behind why the canucks are struggling???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm a big fan of Mason Raymond, and I've been pulling for him to come back after the NHL gave a Boston goon licence to nearly cripple him last year. But time to face the facts. He's been playing unfocused, he's been making bad passes, and fanning on shots, he has ZERO puck sense and confidence right now, and its time he was sat out, allowed to get some perspective on the game and maybe a reset. AV should bring up Weiss, he had chemistry with Malhotra and Lapierre on the fourth line, and he should promote Kassian to the third line. Raymond should sit out a few games and focus on shooting and passing drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking13 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not saying I oppose to sitting him out.. but how does "sitting him out" give him more "puck sense and confidence"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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