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So Why Exactly Does Everyone Want Luongo Gone?


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#61 TheCammer

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:46 AM

Saying Schneider is not ready for playing a full season is pure speculation without any basis.All its meant to do is take the focus off Lou.
For the record, Lou has not done very well lately playing a lot of games. He doesn;t show up in October causing the team to lose points, has mini slumps through the season and lacks consistency,
Its fear of the unknown that makes fans nervous about Cory , an unfounded fear.
I don;t think this situation comes as a surprise to Lou ,so..,wondering why all the Lou birds are stunned. The writing was on the wall !!

I agree that the fear of the unknown is what has some fans up in arms, but frankly, we don't know yet. I'm hopeful Cory will be able to mainttain his standard of play once he starts playing more games.
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#62 TheCammer

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:55 AM

How can yoy say Luongo gives us the best chance to win Downunda when everything ,(management, stats) say otherwise??? Lou was ok this year but inconsistant, his playoff record is 32 and 29...Schneider is more consistant because he is technically and athltically better....read BETTER !!! it is for these reasons that Lou is playing second fiddle now. Lou had a great 2010-11 season but since then has spurned the teachings of Melanson which addressed his shortcomings . You can have your opinions but at some point you will have to face the reality that its just not luck that makes Schneids better or that Lou will find consistancy because his game does not promote that.


You have no evidence that Luongo has spurned Melanson's teachings. Melanson has completely altered Lou's glove work and positioning. The only change from last year is that they have found common ground on how deep in the net he is. Luongo used to be "top of the crease", Melanson had him back on the goal line . This year he is telling Luongo to challenge and come out based on his reads, but he is still primarily on the goal line.

smurf, you tend to have a bit too much Lou hate and I think you are going to be a bit sad wwhen he is gone. Fingers crossed that Schneider can handle the increased workload. He could in the AHL so let's hope.
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#63 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:57 AM

Cause hating on Luongo is popular so everyone does it. And apparently Vancouver fans always need a scapegoat.

Edited by DeNiro, 27 April 2012 - 11:57 AM.

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#64 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

Cause hating on Luongo is popular so everyone does it. And apparently Vancouver fans always need a scapegoat.


...and because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

This team needs an attitude adjustment and a new identity. The core group has not achieved what they were supposed to and changes need to be made. Lu has done some great things but he has also been a major distraction at times and his struggles are closely associated with why this team has struggled in the playoffs.

Lu is a larger-than0life figure that can be a lightening rod for controversy because of his emotional behaviour and untimely comments.

Sometimes a change is necessary even if not deserved. For the good of the team, it amy be time for Lu to move on.

#65 Pineapples

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

Great post! One of the best posts I've seen in a long time.

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#66 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:11 PM

...and because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

This team needs an attitude adjustment and a new identity. The core group has not achieved what they were supposed to and changes need to be made. Lu has done some great things but he has also been a major distraction at times and his struggles are closely associated with why this team has struggled in the playoffs.

Lu is a larger-than0life figure that can be a lightening rod for controversy because of his emotional behaviour and untimely comments.

Sometimes a change is necessary even if not deserved. For the good of the team, it amy be time for Lu to move on.


Doing the same thing again and again huh?

You mean like pretending Mason Raymond is a top 6 forward?

Or pretending that we don't need a legit number 1 defenceman?

Or maybe that we can get by without toughness in the playoffs?

Or that we don't need a third line center that can actually put up points?


There's lots of things this team has had problems with that have never been adressed. Goaltending is a long ways down my list. I'm more concerned about the stuff I just listed.

Edited by DeNiro, 27 April 2012 - 12:12 PM.

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#67 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

Doing the same thing again and again huh?

You mean like pretending Mason Raymond is a top 6 forward?

Or pretending that we don't need a legit number 1 defenceman?

Or maybe that we can get by without toughness in the playoffs?

Or that we don't need a third line center that can actually put up points?


There's lots of things this team has had problems with that have never been adressed. Goaltending is a long ways down my list. I'm more concerned about the stuff I just listed.


I dont' disagree with any of this but to Leave LU out of this list is also wrong. Perhaps the cap space he fres up will allow some of the other defficiencies to be addressed.

If (and we don't know for sure yet) Lu has suggested a trade like sources say, he has created this firestorm and forced MG's hand. Who knows if MG wouldn't have moved Cory ( he may still).

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 27 April 2012 - 12:18 PM.


#68 justsayin

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:50 PM

This core is not going to win a cup. Flame me all you want, but the team had it's shot last year.


+1'd you. It was hard to do because I like the core group. They have been together for quite a few years now without the success we/they all want to see. Sadly, I think some changes need to be made.

#69 1970 and beyond

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:56 PM

This core is not going to win a cup. Flame me all you want, but the team had it's shot last year.


Agree 100%.


Been a fan from day one. Some of those days were good and some were bad.

#70 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

+1'd you. It was hard to do because I like the core group. They have been together for quite a few years now without the success we/they all want to see. Sadly, I think some changes need to be made.


So when the Penguins lost in 2008 they should have dismantled their team and traded Fleury right?

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#71 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

So when the Penguins lost in 2008 they should have dismantled their team and traded Fleury right?

So when the Penguins lost in 2008 they should have dismantled their team and traded Fleury right?


He said "some changes need to be made". He didn't say dismantle the team.

Salo was noticeably slower this year in the playoffs and carried the risk of injury. It may be time to say good-bye.

Malhotra is an overpayment for what he brought this year. Unless he can somehow elevate his game to what it was before the injury, it's time to say good bye.

Raymond appears to be a failed experiment after 3 years. You yourself have said he simply is not a top 6 and is far too weak on his skates ond on the puck to succeed in post-season play. Let him go.

BIeksa had a poor year and if not for Hamhuis it would have been attrocious. HE has a NTC so that could be tough but he needs to be better or benched.

Edler ( our all-star) was worse than Bieksa. He wasn't physical, got only a couple flukey points in the playoffs and coughed the puck up constantly. Perhaps not the NOrris candidate many thoughtl so depending on what he could fetch, maybe move him.

Kesler has plenty of excuses for his off-year so not likely anything will happen there. However, if MG thinks he is going to get more of last year than the previous year, he may move him before his NTC kicks in. Kesler would still be a valuable commodity.

The point of all this is to inject new blood and attidude into a lineup that appears too comfortable and friendly and lacking intensity and energy.

It would be nice to watch a team compete with the tenacity and intensity that Philly and it's 6 rookies do.

#72 cmccomb

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

lol @ the OP. All of that typing for nothing. The answer is simple, the Salary Cap.

If you can get the same results with a younger and cheaper option, why not get out of such a large contract.

No guarantee that he'll play that late into his contract, from ownerships perspective, why not get out of a cumbersome contract if the above statement is true.

#73 johnny*canuck

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

Totally agree with original post. Luongo is an awesome goaltender, and this team would not have achieved what it has without him. Luongo is the best player on this team, has earned himself as a top league goaltender with two presidents trophy wins in the past two years, and a Game 7 Stanley Cup final. You cannot achieve this without exceptional goal-tending. A team cannot win when it's players are not scoring goals in Stanley Cup games. I almost want to think the anti-Luango comments are from trolls trying to create a bad atmosphere among Canucks fans, wanting a trade out of Vancouver, and onto their team ...

#74 BabyBolland

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:07 PM

Is it because people think Schneider is a friendlier, more likeable guy? It almost seems to me that Schneider is the one who wants more ice time and wants to be a starter, being a bit more selfish for more games whereas Luongo is willing to take one for the team and sit on the bench or even waive his no trade clause if need be to do what's best for the Canucks. If guys like Tuukka Rask can sit patiently behind an ageing Thomas for many years, then Schneider can wait longer than just 2 seasons and stop being so selfish. The last thing you want as an organization is to rush the development of your goaltender and I hate to see players go down the Hodgson-pathway like Schneider may be doing right now, but the thought of trading Kesler or the Sedins never crossed anyone's minds, despite the Sedins and Kesler struggling last playoffs and this season and Hodgson having a great rookie season.


you're trash. do us a favor and jump off a cliff.

#75 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

He said "some changes need to be made". He didn't say dismantle the team.

Salo was noticeably slower this year in the playoffs and carried the risk of injury. It may be time to say good-bye.

Malhotra is an overpayment for what he brought this year. Unless he can somehow elevate his game to what it was before the injury, it's time to say good bye.

Raymond appears to be a failed experiment after 3 years. You yourself have said he simply is not a top 6 and is far too weak on his skates ond on the puck to succeed in post-season play. Let him go.

BIeksa had a poor year and if not for Hamhuis it would have been attrocious. HE has a NTC so that could be tough but he needs to be better or benched.

Edler ( our all-star) was worse than Bieksa. He wasn't physical, got only a couple flukey points in the playoffs and coughed the puck up constantly. Perhaps not the NOrris candidate many thoughtl so depending on what he could fetch, maybe move him.

Kesler has plenty of excuses for his off-year so not likely anything will happen there. However, if MG thinks he is going to get more of last year than the previous year, he may move him before his NTC kicks in. Kesler would still be a valuable commodity.

The point of all this is to inject new blood and attidude into a lineup that appears too comfortable and friendly and lacking intensity and energy.

It would be nice to watch a team compete with the tenacity and intensity that Philly and it's 6 rookies do.


He was agreeing to the fact that the core group we have will never win a cup... You're listing more than just "some changes" there. I would consider those moves as dismantling the team.

The core group includes the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis, and Hansen. You're including alot of our players by saying this core group can't win, when really he's basically just saying we can't win with Luongo.

Edited by DeNiro, 27 April 2012 - 02:11 PM.

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#76 rawkdrummer

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

To answer OP's question it's simply comes down to this.
Lou's cap space is needed to sign Schneider and perhaps enough space is left over to add another skater and/or trade another player as well for someone more useful than what we already have.

#77 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:10 PM

.

Edited by DeNiro, 27 April 2012 - 02:10 PM.

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#78 BabyBolland

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

the OP is one of those idiots that can write a 2-page answer to a simple question while saying absolutely nothing useful.

#79 Dildo Faggins

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:19 PM

The thing about all these Luongo supporters is that they never hold him responsible in the slightest bit for letting in soft goals, inconsistency, having play-off meltdowns where he let's a high number of goals in a small number of shots, or just poor play in general. Its always that the team in front of him was playing like crap, defensive breakdowns, team left him out to dry...etc etc...Never any recognition of any shortcomings whatsoever. Only look at the positive and totally ignore the negative. Its like like they give him unwavering, unconditional support no matter what. Vezina trophy, best goalie the francise ever had blah blah. I'm sick of that crap.

#80 suolucidir

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:28 PM

To answer OP's question it's simply comes down to this.
Lou's cap space is needed to sign Schneider and perhaps enough space is left over to add another skater and/or trade another player as well for someone more useful than what we already have.

Lu's capspace is a freaking bargain. Bitch about his salary instead, even though that's not relevant. The cap space is a point in favour of retaining him. We're not going to be a better team if we're moving him as some sort of cap dump. That's preposterous. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about him, what he brings for what he costs (Cap wise) is one of the best values on the roster.
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It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#81 suolucidir

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:35 PM

The thing about all these Luongo supporters is that they never hold him responsible in the slightest bit for letting in soft goals, inconsistency, having play-off meltdowns where he let's a high number of goals in a small number of shots, or just poor play in general. Its always that the team in front of him was playing like crap, defensive breakdowns, team left him out to dry...etc etc...Never any recognition of any shortcomings whatsoever. Only look at the positive and totally ignore the negative. Its like like they give him unwavering, unconditional support no matter what. Vezina trophy, best goalie the francise ever had blah blah. I'm sick of that crap.

The thing about the Lu haters is that they can never admit when Luongo does good. If he earns a shutout, the credit goes to the skaters for playing a tight game in front of him. If he wins a 2-1 game, that 1 was a "softie." If the forwards only manage to score 8 goals n a series while Lu posts two shutouts, 100% of the blame is shoveled on top of Lu. Sure, the skaters played like ass for 60 minutes, but that's because Lu let in a goal eventually so the team lost motivation. Every loss = the goaltender's fault, unless it was Schneids in net.

Lu IS the best goaltender the franchise has ever had. The Lu haters will turn on Schneids within 2 seasons of him taking over the #1 spot, because their criticism is entirely based off of emotions and short sighted analysis. I want Lu out, only because he deserves better than we've given him. We're a group of spoiled, entitled brats and we deserve another era of cloutier-esq goaltending for how we've behaved. Unfortunately I think Schneids is too good for that to happen.
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It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#82 Boudrias

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

Doing the same thing again and again huh?

You mean like pretending Mason Raymond is a top 6 forward?

Or pretending that we don't need a legit number 1 defenceman?

Or maybe that we can get by without toughness in the playoffs?

Or that we don't need a third line center that can actually put up points?


There's lots of things this team has had problems with that have never been adressed. Goaltending is a long ways down my list. I'm more concerned about the stuff I just listed.

I agree with all your points. The reality faced by Gillis is that he has two goaltenders, one proven and the other ready for prime time. Schneider is a RFA and if MG is forced into a arbitrated contract to keep him then he cannot be traded during the 2012-13 season. The concerns you listed above are enough reason that Van cannot keep both as dealing one will hopefully solve one or more of the points you made.

I am sure that Gillis will get the most he can for whichever goalie he deals. IMO it is not a given that Lou is leaving. Again the Canucks have a window with the prime concern being the group of 31 year olds he has. If MG can get a better piece for Schneider then I suspect he will be dealt. Lou at 33 can be a top goalie for another 3 - 4 years and that timing works better for Lack's arrival. Canucks are high on Lack as well, does that make Schneider more tradeable?

I have to laugh at all the concern. At the end of the day these are professional hockey players and they will go where they are told and continue to cash their cheques. It is all about the org and winning a CUP. The guy that always amazes me is Glen Sather in NY. He has made more bonehead deals than not and yet comes out smelling like a rose.

Back to my pet Canuck concern and that is on ice strategy. MG has confirmed the continuance of the puck possession game. My concern is that this works well during the regular season when nothing is at stake. Come playoffs the rules change and a more physical strategy is needed. Look who has moved to the 2nd round and match their size and play against the Canucks. AV did not demonstrate often enough during the regular season that this roster was capable of playing a more physical game over 16 to 28 CUP games. There were positive signs but not enough of them. Rarely was this roster proactive in that department. Ask yourself who is coaching Alex Edler? He is capable of a physical game but rarely shows it, why?

For the record MG moves Lou because SChneider is younger, cheaper and a fundamentally sounder goalie. He also deals Lou because he can get more for him.

Edited by Boudrias, 27 April 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#83 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:43 PM

So much hatred and doubt towards Schneider in the OP. I would type an essay in response but it's not worth my time.

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#84 Trebreh

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:02 PM

Honestly, this is not directed to the OP, but I dont know what's worse, a fanboy/girl or a bandwaggon fan.

I cannot understand how if your a fan of the Canucks as a whole team, not see how keeping the better, younger and cheaper goaltender the best move for this team going forward.

Lets say we keep Luongo and trade CS.

What happens if Luongo continues having meltdowns in the playoffs, letting in weak goals through his five hole and gets back to his prima donna attitude with noone pressuring him in his position?

It's hard enough to trade him while he's still sorta in his prime due to his contract, good luck trying to trade a 35-36 yr old goaltender who has the mental toughness of a 5 yr old with a life time contract AND a cap hit of 5m.

#85 ButterBean

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Unless Schneider can bring back a game-changing superstar our way, there is no reason to trade him and keep Luongo. Schneider is just an overall better goalie. Positionally, stats-wise, more poised in the net, and rarely lets in bad goals like Luongo does. The "games played" arguement works both ways, getting more starts like Luongo did gave him more rhythm which makes most goalies much more comfortable. The damage has been done, Luongo has had too many falters and inconsistencies with this team in the past few years. When we decided to put Schneider in net the last few games against L.A, that was the end of Luongo pretty much. Luongo will never be able to live with the fact that we decided to put Schneider in instead of him. You said Luongo puts the team first by waiving his NTC and Cory Schneider is selfish by wanting to start? Now you're just making up excuses, what goalie in their right mind wants to sit on the bench? Luongo is willing to waive his NTC because he realizes Schneider is better and he wants out of here.

#86 Trebreh

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:18 PM

Unless Schneider can bring back a game-changing superstar our way, there is no reason to trade him and keep Luongo. Schneider is just an overall better goalie. Positionally, stats-wise, more poised in the net, and rarely lets in bad goals like Luongo does. The "games played" arguement works both ways, getting more starts like Luongo did gave him more rhythm which makes most goalies much more comfortable. The damage has been done, Luongo has had too many falters and inconsistencies with this team in the past few years. When we decided to put Schneider in net the last few games against L.A, that was the end of Luongo pretty much. Luongo will never be able to live with the fact that we decided to put Schneider in instead of him. You said Luongo puts the team first by waiving his NTC and Cory Schneider is selfish by wanting to start? Now you're just making up excuses, what goalie in their right mind wants to sit on the bench? Luongo is willing to waive his NTC because he realizes Schneider is better and he wants out of here.


Thats his fanboyism kicking in.

trying to twist it around like CS is the selfish one and with the ego :lol:

#87 RGC

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

Now yes, I've been a Luongo fan ever since he became a Canuck. Sure, I've watched him carry this team in times of need and let them down in big situations as well, but all things aside, I cannot understand exactly why people want to run this guy out of town and go with Schneider when I consider the following points:



#88 DeNiro

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:32 PM

Honestly, this is not directed to the OP, but I dont know what's worse, a fanboy/girl or a bandwaggon fan.

I cannot understand how if your a fan of the Canucks as a whole team, not see how keeping the better, younger and cheaper goaltender the best move for this team going forward.

Lets say we keep Luongo and trade CS.

What happens if Luongo continues having meltdowns in the playoffs, letting in weak goals through his five hole and gets back to his prima donna attitude with noone pressuring him in his position?

It's hard enough to trade him while he's still sorta in his prime due to his contract, good luck trying to trade a 35-36 yr old goaltender who has the mental toughness of a 5 yr old with a life time contract AND a cap hit of 5m.


Yea because liking and believing in a certain player is worse than turning on a team when they don't win...Give your head a shake.

People are making assumptions that Schneider is the better goalie based on a very small sample size. Whenever you make an all in move like that, there tends to be risk involved.

I could just as easily say what if Luongo regains his Vezina calibre form next season and leads us to a cup? That's just as likely as Schneider all of a sudden being the solution for us.

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#89 RGC

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:36 PM

Yea because liking and believing in a certain player is worse than turning on a team when they don't win...Give your head a shake.

People are making assumptions that Schneider is the better goalie based on a very small sample size. Whenever you make an all in move like that, there tends to be risk involved.

I could just as easily say what if Luongo regains his Vezina calibre form next season and leads us to a cup? That's just as likely as Schneider all of a sudden being the solution for us.


No, you couldn't, because Luongo's Vezina caliber form doesn't come with him in the playoffs, at least not all rounds of the playoffs. There was huge risk in trading for Luongo when he was deemed selfish (probably rightfully so) and inexperienced, though great as well, coming from Florida. There was big risk in that, but it worked out fairly well. Now the Canucks are almost over the top and another risk must be taken to push them over the top, and you don't want them to take the risk? What?

#90 Pickly

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  • Joined: 04-October 08

Posted 27 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

He was agreeing to the fact that the core group we have will never win a cup... You're listing more than just "some changes" there. I would consider those moves as dismantling the team.
The core group includes the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis, and Hansen. You're including alot of our players by saying this core group can't win, when really he's basically
just saying we can't win with Luongo.


I just can't see this franchise winning a cup with what we have now. The Sedins are tremendous hockey players don't get me wrong, but besides a couple series last year they are mediocre come playoff time. Sure they maintain a PPG average, but teams continuously shut them down and get them off their game and rarely are they able to dominate night in and night out like they do in the regular season. IMO, Ryan Kesler has shown amazing capabilities to carry this team on his back ( eg Nashville series) but these performances are few and far between come the post season. He is not a consistent playoff performer and although he seems to always get bit by the injury bug at the worst times, I just don't think he has what it takes to lead a team on another deep playoff run.
The defence shut er down every single year in the post season and yes you can use injuries as an excuse, but it can't be a bonafide reason how horrible they can be as a whole in the playoffs it seems every year.

The Canucks needs an injection of youth into their lineup as this core isn't getting any younger and it's proof that with the past 3 cup winners having that healthy mix of youth and veterans is essential for making deep runs. The Canucks aren't a young team anymore. Unless they make immediate changes to their top 6 and perhaps acquire a bonafide number one defenseman they will struggle to come even remotely close to last year. The farm is looking pretty thin at the moment and players like Jensen and Schroeder may not be ready yet. The only way to address this issue is by trades or perhaps one or two big FA signings which are difficult because of a thin FA crop this year and massive overpayments these players seem to get every year.

You gotta give up something to get something and Canuck fans have a hard time with this because of the attachments they form with certain core players who are what probably need to be traded in order to actually get that 16th win.






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