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Stop Avoiding The Obvious: Its Time For A Mini-Rebuild


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#1 jonnycanuck46

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

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Hey guys,

In no way am I a "trade the whole team" idiot who is simply going to do what so many morons have proposed before me. I do feel though as though the team is becoming more and more stale as the years go on.

At this point in time, most think it is an overreaction to say it is time to consider dealing some big names, but lets look at what we're up against here:: The league has figured out our system, they know how to shut down the Sedins and Kesler, they know how to infiltrate out defense, and they know AV's coaching style. Not to mention they know Roberto's flaws.

I think it is key that we keep Cory because he's one of only a handful of Canucks who have not been "figured out" by other teams.

I will not offer a useless proposal on this topic, but I will bring to light that yes, we had a lot of contributing factors to last years demise, but truth is, our team is no longer fresh, and I feel that the "window" is closing. I never believed in the "window" in the past, but I see why it was penned, for teams like us.

Look at Detroit in the late 90's. They had an aging core, they knew it was slowing down, so they developed Zetterberg and Datsyuk who immediately took the team and freshened it. Now I know we say we can do that too, but so many of our prospects are years away from making an impact, especially while the twins are still around.


I will make a list of players who I think should LEVEL 1) be left UNTOUCHED LEVEL 2) be expendable or LEVEL 3) be dealt as soon as possible.

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LEVEL 1 Players:)

The Sedins: still our core, and still untouchable. Should consider dealing them in 5 years or so.

Cory Schneider: The future face of the franchise: young, cheap, skilled, and composed. Should not be traded whatsoever.

Hamhuis and Bieksa: Arguably a second pairing, these guys have great chemistry and provide the Canucks with depth on D. Contracts are a little pricey, but these guys have become close to core players.

Alex Burrows: This guy is by far the greatest bargain. Perhaps our only true clutch player at the moment as well.

Nicklas Jensen: This kid is looking more and more like a star. Will play a key role in the future.

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LEVEL 2 Players:)

Ryan Kesler: The "beast" is hardly that anymore. While injuries may have caused him to lose productivity somewhat, the injury bug has hit and hit hard. He also has trouble finding chemistry with almost everyone. His bad attitude has caused problems as well.

David Booth: Same issue as Kesler (without the attitude), his large contract may be hard to move, but he still has trade value.

Chris Higgins: Valuable to the team in so many ways, pushing on the door of being untouchable, but his services are replacable if his production drops.

Lapierre, Hansen, Edler, Salo, Tanev: Same issue here: These guys play their roles well, but could be packaged if a deal is proposed that knocks the team's socks off.

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LEVEL 3 Players:)

Roberto Luongo: Has officially become the "cancer" in the room. Unfortunately for him, his comments and the media have put him on a "must trade" basis with the team. He is no longer an elite goaltender, but his contract is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If it wasn't for the emergence of Schneider, there would be no question who is our number #1 goalie.

Keith Ballard: No question here: his contract vs. his output is unacceptable. Make a trade similar to Ehrhoff in San Jose.


Thoughts?

Jon

Edited by jonnycanuck46, 25 May 2012 - 03:14 PM.

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#2 Jägermeister

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:14 PM

We just came off a Presidents, and we got beat by the best team so far this playoffs. If we have another year where we are unable to get it done in the playoffs, it might be time for some change, but as things stand now we have a group that has the ability to go all the way.

Of course any deal that could address any team needs would be welcomed, but I don't think now is the time to trade simply to shake things up.

Edited by Jagermeister, 25 May 2012 - 03:15 PM.

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#3 JustJokinen!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:14 PM

Luongo "officially" being a cancer is based on what?
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#4 Strawberries

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

luu is a cancer?
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#5 Gollumpus

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:19 PM

There will be at least one new top-6 forward, a top-4 d-man, and pretty darn sure that there will be a new goalie (as a back-up to one of the guys already here).

That should be enough change for you. :)

regards,
G.
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#6 Brad Marchand

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:19 PM

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You don't know what goes on in the locker room so don't act like you do.

I don't even know why I read your posts anymore.
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#7 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:21 PM

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Luongo is a cancer in the sense that he gets to play even though Schneider is out performing him. The teammates think this is unfair to Schneider and thus play more poorly in front of Luongo. They always say the best players need to play and deserve to play.

Luongo gets his spot taken, and even though the replacement in the playoffs was to spark the team, Luongo states that he doesn't mind getting traded. What kind of a team player is that? Right after a loss, he wants to ditch the team already.

Now that teams know he wants out, Gillis is forced to make a move allowing other GMs to sit back and wait for Gillis to force a trade.

CANCER
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#8 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

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Roberto Luongo: Has officially become the "cancer" in the room. Unfortunately for him, his comments and the media have put him on a "must trade" basis with the team. He is no longer an elite goaltender, but his contract is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If it wasn't for the emergence of Schneider, there would be no question who is our number #1 goalie.


Lost any credibility right there regardless of what other drivel is contained in your post. You have absolutely no proof of that nor even any indication that that is so other than the percolating septic mess between your ears which unfortunately escapes through your fingers and onto this board.

Stop trying to pass your fever addled brain farts off as facts.........this is not the first time you have tried to do so and people are beginning to catch on....finally.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 25 May 2012 - 03:25 PM.

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#9 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

Lu is not a cancer but you bring up some valid points. And I don't think Kesler has a "big" contract, many teams will grab hin for that price.
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#10 Shift-4

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

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luu is a cancer?


Depends on his birthday
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#11 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:25 PM

You don't know what goes on in the locker room so don't act like you do.

I don't even know why I read your posts anymore.


Perfectly said! :)
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#12 resdog

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:26 PM

Why do I keep expecting original thoughts? I gotta get my head checked.
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#13 JustJokinen!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:28 PM

Luongo is a cancer in the sense that he gets to play even though Schneider is out performing him. The teammates think this is unfair to Schneider and thus play more poorly in front of Luongo. They always say the best players need to play and deserve to play.

Luongo gets his spot taken, and even though the replacement in the playoffs was to spark the team, Luongo states that he doesn't mind getting traded. What kind of a team player is that? Right after a loss, he wants to ditch the team already.

Now that teams know he wants out, Gillis is forced to make a move allowing other GMs to sit back and wait for Gillis to force a trade.

CANCER


That's wild speculation based on next to nothing. We have no idea what goes in the room or what the players think.

The way I see it, Luongo was being the ultimate team player when he said he would accept a trade if that's what the team wanted. A cancer would probably tell them to shove it and invoke his no trade clause.
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#14 InSoM-

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:29 PM

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#15 jonnycanuck46

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:31 PM

Luongo is a cancer in the sense that he gets to play even though Schneider is out performing him. The teammates think this is unfair to Schneider and thus play more poorly in front of Luongo. They always say the best players need to play and deserve to play.

Luongo gets his spot taken, and even though the replacement in the playoffs was to spark the team, Luongo states that he doesn't mind getting traded. What kind of a team player is that? Right after a loss, he wants to ditch the team already.

Now that teams know he wants out, Gillis is forced to make a move allowing other GMs to sit back and wait for Gillis to force a trade.

CANCER


thank-you this is what i am getting at.
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#16 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:31 PM

That's wild speculation based on next to nothing. We have no idea what goes in the room or what the players think.

The way I see it, Luongo was being the ultimate team player when he said he would accept a trade if that's what the team wanted. A cancer would probably tell them to shove it and invoke his no trade clause.


Why you gotta be so smart for. I was trying to lure out the Luongo lovers.
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#17 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:32 PM

Questions:

1. Where was the Kesler hate when he was injured in the playoffs last season and the season before as well and the season before that? Has he ever had a 100% playoffs? Nope. What changed? (Oh right. We lost in round one.)

2. The Sedins are closer to being overage, but Kesler and Booth are the ones more likely to be traded in a 'mini-rebuild?' You understand 'rebuild', right?

3. Higgins did nothing in the playoffs. Why does he get a pass?

4. Luongo is a cancer based on WHAT comments? That he wants to do what's best for the team? Define cancer.

5. What's the difference between this thread and a typical proposal thread? (Besides you don't have a TO WHERE and FOR WHO answer to anything?)



TOML
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#18 jonnycanuck46

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

Lost any credibility right there regardless of what other drivel is contained in your post. You have absolutely no proof of that nor even any indication that that is so other than the percolating septic mess between your ears which unfortunately escapes through your fingers and onto this board.

Stop trying to pass your fever addled brain farts off as facts.........this is not the first time you have tried to do so and people are beginning to catch on....finally.


take a chill pill please and read the damn post before resorting to childish attacks
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Ephesians 2:7-9

"That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

#19 canuckelhead70

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

Luongo is a cancer in the sense that he gets to play even though Schneider is out performing him. The teammates think this is unfair to Schneider and thus play more poorly in front of Luongo.



The cancer is people like you that make unfounded comments. List the teammates that think this is unfair, post a direct quote from these teammates that think it's unfair and more importantly if the team as you says plays poorly in front of Lu then, more credit should be given to Lu for putting up the numbers he did and giving the Canucks another 50 win season when the team in front of him as you say did not play to their potential when he was in net.

Any chance you can start cheering for some other team?
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#20 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:43 PM

The cancer is people like you that make unfounded comments. List the teammates that think this is unfair, post a direct quote from these teammates that think it's unfair and more importantly if the team as you says plays poorly in front of Lu then, more credit should be given to Lu for putting up the numbers he did and giving the Canucks another 50 win season when the team in front of him as you say did not play to their potential when he was in net.

Any chance you can start cheering for some other team?


Dam I love it when people get so worked up over a little Luongo bashing :lol:
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#21 JustJokinen!

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:46 PM

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take a chill pill please and read the damn post before resorting to childish attacks


Many people have read your post and reached the same conclusions as her.
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#22 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:54 PM

Dam I love it when people get so worked up over a little Luongo bashing

So... Troll or Attention Whore?
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#23 miles.p

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:58 PM

AV's playoff coaching success:
1st year - Loss in second round
2nd year - No playoffs
3rd year - loss in second round (had to come down from 3-1 to win the 1st round then blow it against the 'Hawks
4th year - collapse against the hawks again after dominating first round 4 - 0
5th year - almost collapsed in the first round (1 goal away from making history) then completely get blown out on the road against the Bruins and loss game 7 on home ice
6th year - 1st round loss.

2 wins in the last 10 playoff games.
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#24 Watermelons

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:03 PM

No mention of Kassian or Schroeder?

Edited by monkeydluffy, 25 May 2012 - 04:04 PM.

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#25 Tm085

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:07 PM

This team was 1 win away from the cup a year ago we don;t need any kind of rebuild even a mini one, for whatever reason the offense has dried up the last couple playoff series when it really counts. going back to the finals we've scored 16 goals in our last 12 playoff games, this is not going to win you anything.
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#26 justsayin

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:08 PM

I can't believe that I just read this entire thread. Thank God I am wasting time at work and not my own personal time.

Bring on the draft and July 1st so we have some new topics to talk about.
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#27 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:30 PM

I expected it to be a good point, you normally have some decent ideas. I wanted it to be something good, something that added substance. I tried to agree with you, I really did; but I couldn't.

First off: what Detroit have is unique, I doubt that we'll see a team dominate te league for so long ever again (at least not in a while) and its coming to an end, right before our eyes; Lidström (although he's still very good) is winding down, he isn't as fast as he used to be, nor is he as good anymore. The injury he had this season proves this, his body is old, he will never be as good as he was when he won the Conn Smythe in '02.

Detroit was also built in a way that the Canucks aren't, they had stars in all of their lines, their prospects got to play with really good, veterans. Zetterberg played with Fedorov and Hull during his first year, he didn't have to play a big part, since they also had guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Draper among the forwards. Same goes for defensemen: they had Lidström, Chelios and Schneider there, so guys like Kronwall could take their time and dellop into great players calmly.

The Red Wings were also lucky, Zetterberg was picked in one of the last rounds of the draft, and so was Datsyuk.

My point is that Detroit has had some crazy depth, in all positions, in a way that most teams don't even dare to dream about. But they've also been lucky, like they were with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. So you can't really say that you want the Canucks to act like the Wings have, it's like asking someone to play like Gretzky.

You're also forgetting that we just won our second consecutive President's Trophy; we're still a great team.

Also:

You sort of stated what's already been stated like a million times: yes, the Sedins aren't going to/ can't/ won't be moved. Burrows is a player with a lot of heart, he means more to us than he'd mean on any other team. Our first D-pairing won't be moved either.

Edler, Kesler and Higgins are also key parts of this organization, MG will want a lot in exchange for them, and I also think that Edler is better than most of you guys think. He's our best offensive defenseman, he's the only guy we have who (sort of) can fill Erhoff's shoes on the PP.

The point you made about Loungo is somewhat true, he gets to play too much; AV played him based on previous merits. But to say that the guy's cancer, no.

It is also true that he isn't the goalie he used to be, but he is still an elite goal tender. And the other 29 teams havn't figured him out, he isn't as good (phenomal) as he used to be.

So basically: Detroit has done something nobody else will ever do. You can't copy that.

We are still a good team.

You stated the obvious.

Loungo isn't as bad as you say he is, nor is he cancer.


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#28 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:33 PM

AV's playoff coaching success:
1st year - Loss in second round
2nd year - No playoffs
3rd year - loss in second round (had to come down from 3-1 to win the 1st round then blow it against the 'Hawks
4th year - collapse against the hawks again after dominating first round 4 - 0
5th year - almost collapsed in the first round (1 goal away from making history) then completely get blown out on the road against the Bruins and loss game 7 on home ice
6th year - 1st round loss.

2 wins in the last 10 playoff games.


5th year: dominated the Preds and Sharks, two great teams, eliminated the Stanley Cup champions. Came one game away from winning the cup against a Bruins team that was really good, and had an amazing goalie.

Failure? I don't think so.
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#29 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:35 PM

AV's playoff coaching success:
1st year - Loss in second round
2nd year - No playoffs
3rd year - loss in second round (had to come down from 3-1 to win the 1st round then blow it against the 'Hawks
4th year - collapse against the hawks again after dominating first round 4 - 0
5th year - almost collapsed in the first round (1 goal away from making history) then completely get blown out on the road against the Bruins and loss game 7 on home ice
6th year - 1st round loss.

2 wins in the last 10 playoff games.


Also: I'm four of those six years we were beaten by the team that went on to win the Cup (yeah, LA is gonna beat the Rangers.)
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#30 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:36 PM

Lou's team mates all seem to like Lou; hardly a huge tumour.

But last year for game 6 in Chicago, he did not sit on the bench, reported as pouting not an injury, when Schneider started if in front of him. That's not carcinogenic?

Lou lost his cool, and his confidence, because people did not pump his tires. Is that a breath of fresh air?

Its not a championship mentality anyway. Now Lou wants out because he did not start against L.A. You can dress it, and say you are trying not to stand in the way, but its not good.

.

Lost any credibility right there regardless of what other drivel is contained in your post. You have absolutely no proof of that nor even any indication that that is so other than the percolating septic mess between your ears which unfortunately escapes through your fingers and onto this board.

Stop trying to pass your fever addled brain farts off as facts.........this is not the first time you have tried to do so and people are beginning to catch on....finally.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 25 May 2012 - 04:39 PM.

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