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Bieksasangryface

Mark Donnelly

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Donnelly used a pregnancy hormone to lose a bunch of weight but yet he's against abortion. Where does he think these hormones come from, exactly?

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What sort of situation would a women would be under to justify killing somebody else for her own benefit? If she can't raise the child, then she should put it up for adoption. If she is afraid that having a baby will kill her - killing the baby is certain, her own death is not.

Another issue is what makes the distinction between a fetus and a human? A day before birth and a day after birth the baby is the same - its only the perception of it that has changed [in the eyes of the law]. If the law changed, defining a baby as human after its 1st birthday, would you still agree?

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I don't agree with Mark Donnelly's views. That is fine. I still want him to sing our anthem.

What I really don't agree with is the method in which the organization he supports is delivering their message.

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he's got like 8 kids. go figure.

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I know this is a common example but - rape/incest? I believe the woman should have the option to keep or do-away fetuses as a result of rape/incest. But of course, some people will think rape is just the same as consensual sex for the woman and therefore needs to go through with it when pregnant. But I don't want to use 'rape' as the main argument against abortion.

1) A fetus, especially an early one, does not necessarily go into a baby. Many go into miscarriage. 2) Some statistics need to be made regarding the success rate of baby fetuses. I imagine it is difficult and invasive. I just know that assuming a fetus will always result in a baby is wrong. A fetus is clearly not the same as a baby.

3) Furthermore, outlawing abortion will only result in women finding ways which COULD harm oneself (because they have no other choice). It doesn't mean that abortion will be completely wiped off the map. It is much more practical to control abortion rather than simply outlawing it.

4) What is the difference between contraception and abortion? It's merely before and after too, but I don't see as much outrage with it (unless we're talking about Catholics). We do know that a high amount of sperm do not survive the journey to the fallopian tubes.

Altering one's organs (i.e. burning fallopian tubes) prevents pregnancy even better than using a condom, but this is considered major surgery which involves risks and forcing people to undergo unnecessary surgery in order to have sex is wrong. If governments did this to control population, would this be acceptable to you? I think there are some similar parallels with this and trying to outlaw abortion.

I believe education is very important and should be readily available. I don't suggest fast ways to abort a baby be freely available over the counter. I think women should be given INFORMED decisions and 5) I do not believe outside pressure is the right way of doing things.

6) Regarding a young woman who is clearly not ready to have a baby (financially and otherwise), sure she can give up the baby for adoption, but what about the fate of that baby? One cannot assume that baby will necessarily always be in good hands. Adoption centers are not always able to handle the large amount of unclaimed kids. If there is insufficient funding for education, what makes you think there is enough funding for these 'unwanted' kids?

Ultimately the very people you are trying to protect can get hurt in the process.

Perhaps there should be a restriction on abortion for late-stage fetuses. Early stage fetuses are not technically living.

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.

6) This is the part that sparked my attention. I was adopted. No funding. My adoptive parents got no funding from the government. I have no idea what you are referring to. Foster parents receive funding, but adopt a child, and you are and should be on your own. My parents could not have children naturally, so they adopted.

Have you looked at the adoption wait times?

http://www.canadaado...ic_public.shtml

http://www.childrens.../pages/faq.html

Just a simple google search. Used to be placement in 90 days or so. Now, 2 years or so. Why? Babies are not available. Why? Abortion rates are too high. Solution? Go overseas.

Cut back on abortion rates, adoption wait times go down, we stop going overseas and care for our own.

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First......I am as vehemently pro-choice as it is possible to get.

Second - My brother is adopted, 3/4 of my cousins in one family alone are adopted and I've been with them right through their searches for their birth parents and eventual reunions so I do know something about adoption.

You have written a a fairly clear and concise response to ML18 but when it comes to flawed logic, you've managed to encompass it fully with the statement/opinion I've quoted above. You really think we should outlaw abortion so that more babies are available for adoption by those wishing to adopt because they cannot have children of their own? Or that abortion should be illegal so that adoption wait times will be shorter? This is all about supple and demand? :shock:

Crazy me, but I think that it's much better that babies and children are not floating around in the foster care system at all. That each child carried to term is wanted, eagerly awaited and will grow up in a loving home where they are a blessing and a joy to their parents. Indeed, perhaps we should be slowing down going overseas for babies and look after the older children still waiting for a family.

Simplistic? Perhaps so...and if prospective adoptive parents today really wanted to do the very best for a child in foster care or one currently up for adoption, perhaps they should be looking at the older children who are languishing in foster care homes without a family of their own to love and care for them. Our family waited 5 years for my brother and that was decades ago......... we are immensely grateful to his birth mother who decided to have him according to her personal beliefs........and when the man she was involved with, not my brother's birth father, decided he couldn't accept another man's child, she gave my brother to a family where she KNEW he'd be loved and cherished.

I've seen both sides of this coin......a pregnant teenager who's birth control failed, & elected to have an abortion then went on to graduate, have a career, marry and have two more children in a happy, secure environment; a homeless, schizophrenic and drug addicted 15 year old who is hospitalized on a regular basis and will never live on her own who used illegal drugs and prescription meds in early pregnancy; a pregnant teenager who gave up her baby and later went on to marry the birth dad and have 4 more children together; a drug addicted prostitute, pregnant by a john who then waited too long for an abortion while working her trade and passed down life long problems to her child who was born addicted to heroin....... to a birth mother who loved her child, couldn't look after him or give him the kind of home and life he deserved so ensured that her child would have a better life. A girl who was pregnant at 13 by a family member and had to have an abortion, a viciously and violently raped and brutalized 24 year old so traumatized by the attack that she couldn't even function in the basic daily needs of her life......you wouldn't really expect this 13 year old or rape victim to carry their attacker's child to term just so more babies would be available for adoption and wait times would be shorter, would you?

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Now for these others, a blanket answer is nearly impossible. Taking the "pregnant by a family member situation", short answer, yes, she should carry it to term. The only way she will avoid the guilt of murdering her own unborn child IS to carry it to term. Keep it? No, certainly not advisable. But why make matters worse? Was being raped or taken advantage of traumatic? Yes, extremely, horrifically. But so is murder. Why ADD to the trauma she is already suffering from?

Just my opinion.

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:shock: You would expect a 13 year old girl to carry her abuser, her rapist's, child to term? I think, as a male, you don't quite understand the concept of 'guilt' in this situation if she has an abortion. I suggest that the majority of the 'guilt' she would feel would be from people like yourself and anti-abortionists foisting their archaic beliefs upon her. You know, those who do not have to live in her skin and in her brain...or live HER lilfe. You would make her spend the next 9 months, torturing her on a daily basis, on a minute by minute basis, with the fetus of a rapist growing inside her and you think THAT doesn't 'cause irreparable harm??? I'm flabbergasted you can be so cold, so unfeeling and so completely oblivious to the reality of the situation this girl would be placed in if forced to carry this pregnancy to term.

I cannot believe you would compound the trauma and brutality of child rape and incest or brutal violent rape by forcing the victim to carry the pregnancy to term, I just cannot believe it. Perhaps if it were your little sister, or your daughter, or your mother, or your wife.........your opinion would be very, very different.

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:shock: You would expect a 13 year old girl to carry her abuser, her rapist's, child to term? I think, as a male, you don't quite understand the concept of 'guilt' in this situation if she has an abortion. I suggest that the majority of the 'guilt' she would feel would be from people like yourself and anti-abortionists foisting their archaic beliefs upon her. You know, those who do not have to live in her skin and in her brain...or live HER lilfe. You would make her spend the next 9 months, torturing her on a daily basis, on a minute by minute basis, with the fetus of a rapist growing inside her and you think THAT doesn't 'cause irreparable harm??? I'm flabbergasted you can be so cold, so unfeeling and so completely oblivious to the reality of the situation this girl would be placed in if forced to carry this pregnancy to term.

I cannot believe you would compound the trauma and brutality of child rape and incest or brutal violent rape by forcing the victim to carry the pregnancy to term, I just cannot believe it. Perhaps if it were your little sister, or your daughter, or your mother, or your wife.........your opinion would be very, very different.

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She will feel guilt on her own without any outside influence if she ascribes any humanity to the unborn child. She doesn't need to walk through some picket line to feel guilt, her conscience alone will torment her.

If there is no guilt associated with abortion, why do so many women feel guilty?

You used strong language in your denunciation of my position. In response:

I can't believe you would try to convince someone that the life they carry is not even human, it is just a lump of cells, a bio mass like a tumor that they can cut out of their body at will. I can't believe that you would try to convince a traumatized young person that even though things are bleak and bad, killing an innocent baby will make you feel better. I can't believe that you would counsel someone who was just raped to kill the life growing within them as some sort of sadistic way of evening things out or making the world better again.

Sad.

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And just so everyone knows, Canada is the only country in the world along with North Korea and China that have no laws regarding abortion. Those are pretty good role models for us, I'm glad we are striving to be just like them.

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