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Defense = Major Cause of So-called Luongo Breakdowns


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#91 cmccomb

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:48 PM

this debate is pointless. We didn't lose last year or this year because of goaltending or defense. At the end of the day we didn't get our regular offensive output and we lost. /thread.

#92 Tm085

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:51 PM

this debate is pointless. We didn't lose last year or this year because of goaltending or defense. At the end of the day we didn't get our regular offensive output and we lost. /thread.


lol this point has been made numerous times, yet Luongo haters still try to pin it all on him. Guess they think 1.14 goals a game is our regular offensive output

#93 Burrrrkes

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 11:54 PM

Hockey is a team sport, you lose as a team and win as a team. In the end, everyone should be accountable for. No single player is to be blamed for for this years playoffs collapse

Edited by Burrrrkes, 14 June 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#94 chrisbanks

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:17 AM

all goalies in the nhl are the best in the world thats why they are in the NHL , that said for NHL standards a great goalie is a goalie who can bail his team out and performs at his highest level no matter what the team infront of him is doing , a bad goalie is a goalie who lets in softies when his team is dominating the game and just needs an average save or two, average goalies and this is where luongo falls in is a goalie that is only as good as the team infront of him , 15th in the league for GGA at 2.41 and 12th in S% .919 right in the middle of the pack for goalies otherwise known as average for a NHL goalie , when he came to the canucks analysts said he was a top 3 goalie and canuck fans said he was the best in the world then the next season he was a top 5 goalie by analysts then it was top 10 now its hard to say if hes even top 10 there were points of the season canucks were winning games with luongo in net letting in 3 or 4 goals a game he was playing for the first place team and goalies that were not in a playoff spot actually had better numbers than him . if luongo was to be the starter in pheonix ,LA, or nashville last year none of thoes teams wouldve made the playoffs .

#95 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 12:37 AM

I was just talking about this with my long time friend and Canuck fan the other night. The Defense as much as I love the guys have to shoulder some of the blame . As many have stated this is a team sport and the team collectively can be blamed for all the losses in the finals last year against Boston. Retards blaming only LOU can seriously STFU btw <_<

This team is guns a blazing or the Bad News Bears when it comes to our defense. We need one more super solid stay at home Crusher that can enforce, and another puck mover preferably on the left side. Never mind the fact our GPG in the playoffs is nearly half of what it is in the reg season. I love Lou but I honestly feel it is best for both parties to move on. Fans here are certifiable and from the evidence Schneider has given us so far it looks as if he is ready to be tossed into the fire.

Be careful what you wish for CDC, When Lou is gone and Corey has a few bad ones what will you say then ? I still think We can have our cake and eat it for one more season. If have both these goalies again we will be a force in the west guaranteed.

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#96 LegionOfDoom

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:10 AM

If the d were perfect you wouldn't have to pay a goalie 5.3 million over 12 years..... Earn your coin, love the guy but deff has been a let down at times. Schneider earned his cape

#97 Qanux

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:15 AM

To the question whether the same players would play differently with different goalies in net? It's a team sport, the defense does not play in isolation from the goalie or the offense in isolation from the defense. When you play a team sport, you would naturally adjust to the players around you and that's a fact. Whether or not the team takes more risks with Lu in net, I'm sure you can try to prove that statistically by comparing the number of odd-man rushes, turnovers, etc. in games with Lu against games with Schneider. Of course, you'd throw in a bunch of assumptions with that as well.

While it's a valid question whether Lu or Schneider gives us the better chance of winning each game, the team should first address the major reason of why the team didn't go as far as we'd like. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link, and I don't think goaltending is the team's weakest link. If Lu is as bad as so many claim he is, how in the world did we make it to game 7 of SC finals in 2011? His deficiency should single-handed cost the team to lose before that. What I'm saying is that he's not as bad as some of you make him to be. The only thing that could silence his critics is him winning the last and only missing trophy. For someone who has won at all different levels, holds this franchise's records in so many categories, I only plea that we as fans be respectful to this player.

Remember the revolving door for our No.1 goalies before Lu arrived when we had goalies like Potvin, Cloutier, Hirsch, Sanford, Schwab, Irbe, (the list goes on and on). These goalies all held and deserved the No.1 spot at one time or another but eventually faltered. Lu is the one guy who gave this team consistency year after year, probably since the Kirk McLean era. Has his "crappiness" cause this team to miss the playoffs? Regular season success means nothing, right? Well, try winning the Cup without getting into the playoffs. Don't be so disloyal and dump on this guy. What about Kesler's or Hank's numbers for the last 20 or so regular season games and into the first round of this year's playoffs? These guys are paid to perform as much as Lu. Do we trade away these guys too? Even if Lu is traded, respect the guy for what's he's done personally, and for this team. Yes, we all want the Cup, but at the end of the day, only one team out of 30 gets to win it.

It's also interesting to note that Lu was the one displaced Brodeur as starter in the 2010 Olympics and won gold, and Brodeur's play had been going downhill for the last couple years when people questioned whether he should retire. And when is the last time Brodeur won a goaltending award? Well, Lu won the Jennings not so long ago. But who went to the SC finals this year? Imagine if NJ fans dumped Brodeur prior to this playoffs the way we do with Lu. Brodeur could have very well retired this summer if he lost his starter job before this year's playoffs on a rather sour note. Of course Brodeur has led them to 3 Cups and gets a longer leash, but again they also had a really solid defence led by Neidermeyer and Stevens. I'm neither a Lu lover nor a Lu hater, I'm just a Lu "respecter" and a loyal fan.

Edited by Qanux, 15 June 2012 - 01:20 AM.


#98 Pineapples

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:19 AM

Ya sure this thread is a joke. How can you blame the defense for everything? How bout Lu in shooutouts? Is that the canucks players taking the shootouts fault? lol. Your reasoning is a complete joke, and is only seen as a mere effort to try to keep overrated Luongo. Just stop before you embarass yourself.

Lu thinking he is an elite when he is not= Major Cause of So-called Luongo Breakdowns


This thread is about the playoffs and we all know there are no shootouts then. Therefore your response is clearly a mere effort to bash Luongo.

If someone is embarassing themself, it certainly isn't the OP.

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#99 KSniper88

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:26 AM

This thread is about the playoffs and we all know there are no shootouts then. Therefore your response is clearly a mere effort to bash Luongo.

If someone is embarassing themself, it certainly isn't the OP.

I can't wait till the day you lu lovers shut up after he gets traded. Because blaming defense and uploading youtube highlights and so on is a desperate effort to save Luongo from being traded. MG is not reading this cr*p so don't even bother.

#100 Pineapples

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

I can't wait till the day you lu lovers shut up after he gets traded. Because blaming defense and uploading youtube highlights and so on is a desperate effort to save Luongo from being traded. MG is not reading this cr*p so don't even bother.


My post didn't defend Lu nor bash him. I just pointed out how your post was irrelevant to the topic. All you want to do is hate on Luongo and that's pretty obvious to everyone.

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#101 KSniper88

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:48 AM

My post didn't defend Lu nor bash him. I just pointed out how your post was irrelevant to the topic. All you want to do is hate on Luongo and that's pretty obvious to everyone.

Yes i hate him and want him out. That's my opinion and you can't do anything about it. There are more people wanting Lu out so you are the minority. Let the man leave as he wants to anyways.

#102 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:56 AM

Good thing you tried your best to really counter the theory I proposed and also accepted the fact that I never say that the D is solely responsible.

You are also wrong on shootouts. Up until 2010 (the only website I could find)
Career save record in SO: 111/155 = 71.6%
Career win/loss: 20-22 = 47.6%

So at least up until 2 years ago, we can see that Luongo is pretty decent in SO, but then he still has a losing record.... What does that mean? The players in fact DO have trouble scoring. Once again, an irrelevant argument and not even valid. Nice try.


Tell the truth, you didn't include the past two seasons because of how bad Lou was and what it did to his record, but let me help you:

2011-2012 Shots against 42 Goals against 17 Save % .595 W6 L6
2010-2011 Shots against 26 Goals against 12 Save % .538 W3 L5

Convenient to ignore facts when they don't support your argument. I looked them up where everybody looks them up - nhl.com. You think someone wouldn't look them up and you could get away with pulling a fast one?
Nice try back at ya.

By the way:

Schneider:

Career: Shots against 11 Goals against 3 Save % .727 W3 L1

#103 Tm085

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 01:58 AM

so we're resorting to shootout stats now...lol jesus christ lock this f--king thread already.

#104 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:35 AM

DBL Post, sorry



The way I see it, you are only a choke if you fail ALL or MOST of the big games. Luongo has won, even single-handedly, many big games. Therefore, we can establish a theory that Luongo is not actually a choke, but there is an outside factor that causes these breakdowns.

Defensive support is possibly the most important thing a goaltender needs to be successful. The NHL nowadays have so much talent that you will see back-door saucer passes and slap-pass tip-ins night in and night out. Not only that, but goaltending has evolved into more of a positional game than a reactional style. If you don't believe me look at the size of the pads now and 20 years ago.

Luongo is fine in the regular season, sure. That's not because he's only good in the regular season, but it's because his D plays the right way and isolates many of the point-blank chances (ie. rebounds). The Canucks D do this job very well, and though it's not tangibly provable, I and a number of other CDC'ers have come to notice the strange difference in effort in the Canuck players when Schneider plays (perhaps this inflates his numbers).

So everything is good, up until April. What happens? Luongo doesn't let in 4 or 5 every game. He has some insane games and some horrible games. Sometimes he lets in 1 or posts a shutout while sometimes he posts a stinker with 4 or more. Why does this happen?

Unless you are actually suggesting that the April weather suddenly destroys his consistency, there is no other plausible explanation other than the theory that the defence COMPLETELY changes their game. This is in fact provable.

You will notice that the Canucks team vamp up their physicality by a tremendous amount, so much that sometimes the hit is prioritized over simple defensive plays. This is specific to players such as Bieksa or Edler since they are big-minute eaters and love to hit.

What will happen then is that because the Canucks D change their game and how they operate, the rhythm completely breaks for Luongo. Suddenly there are ridiculous point-blank chances appearing all around him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bc6U7PYHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR5o1bZgl0w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI8Dd6oouqM

These highlight-reel saves are often from the playoffs, because Luongo is forced into these situations. The D are often found not marking key players who are WIDE open, so Luongo has to bail them out. When he gets them, he posts those miniscule numbers. When he doesn't, the GAA climbs up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC-E-63LV3s

And, when Luongo's got the defensive support (Burrows checking MacDonald), he makes the saves.

Now obviously I took a small sample of the many videos out there, but as you can see, the main point I'm trying to make is that in the playoffs, the defence leave holes and gaps that normally are covered in the regular season. This creates make or break chances that Luongo must deal with almost alone.

I also feel that Schneider's playoff numbers are inflated partly because of tighter defensive coverage provided by the team. It's not like Schneider is often beat on a goal where the defense hangs him out to dry, because the defence plays tighter when he's in goal. Conspiracy? Maybe, but the theory is there.

Thoughts?

Edit: Before the haters come in to accuse me of trying to find an excuse for Luongo, I would like to say that doing so would prove to me that you cannot find an appropriate counter to the theory that the D is in fact partly responsible for the breakdowns. Think about that before simply posting "QQ Luongo sucks!!1!".


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 15 June 2012 - 02:31 PM.


#105 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 02:37 AM

Yeah, look at this goal.



Sedin coughs up the puck, Kesler waves at him, Erhoff sorta watches as Marchand slips between him and another Canuck to break in on Lou.

But Lou also flopped and fell on his face. giving Marchand the rat an easy goal. Just after bragging he would have made saves Thomas could not, and did not pump his tires. Sure the defence broke down. But Lou did too, the highest paid player in the world at that moment, a $10,000,000 mill salary for 2010/11.

The opposite can be true, teams confidence and overall play drops when they have no confidence in the goaltender!

#106 hockeywoot

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 04:04 AM

I kinda agree with the OP.

Schneider is still the better goalie ATM . Not going to argue that.

If you're going to bank on your goalie to bail you out night after night to make
up for glaring holes in both offensive and defensive deficiencies, then Schneider is the much
better option.

Otherwise, it may be better to fix the problems with the team playing in front of him.
We lack scoring depth. We also lack reliable defenceman. If two of your top-4 are consistently
adventures in their own end. You know you have a problem. If Chris Tanev, is one of your more reliable defenceman,
you clearly have a problem.

#107 Riviera82

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 05:50 AM

Schneider has the exact same defense in front of him, and he still manages to outplay Luongo.


Hey wait just a minute!
Dont forget that the team plays tighter defense in front of Schneider because he needs more help. They dont do that for Luongo because they know that he will bail them out if they have a breakdown......LOL!

#108 Riviera82

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:05 AM

Maybe Schneider has better numbers because psychologically, the players have more confidence in Luongo. Hear me out - with Luongo in goal, the defense has that mindset that they can take a few more chances, of course high-risk, high-reward, and with risk, there is the chance that the risk does not pan out.

I fully agree that the defense plays better with Schneider in goal, but that's not as much hanging Luongo out to dry as it is that they feel he will make that save when needed. Reputations do that sometimes.


What?
Which reputation are we talking about? The reputation for having great regular seasons while being mediocre in shootouts? Or the reputation for getting lit up like a christmas tree during elimination games in the playoffs? Nevermind, that's all the defense's fault anyway.

#109 krazysl

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 06:44 AM

yeah sometimes the team hangs Lou out to dry, but so does every other team in the nhl. Lou only seems to play good when our D is playing good. Lou also lets in crap goals from behind the net or pucks shot directly at his lanky feet, wich then deflates our team. I am telling you I was a huce supporter of Lou and defended him, but that has changed because Lou has showed me time after time that he has a fragile mind and will look like he is a back up at best when he goes like that.

Yeah canucks didnt score much in the SCF and yeah Lou won us 3 of those games because our d played exeptional infront of him. But in the 4 we lost, he didnt have to have a .812 save pct and 6.00 ga, meaning our team was down 3 or 4 goals trying to score to catch up hence giving up more chances. All the playoff series we lose he has those kind of numbers, maybe if the numbers were .890 and 3.00 then he would be elite and the d let him down, instead he is an avrage goalie that needs exeptional D.

#110 Bill F-ing Murray

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:01 AM

Every goalie has nice save highlights, even backup goalies too. Show his shootout goals and explain that. Your being bias showing only certain saves.


Isn't the point the op is making is the fact that during the regular season the D make the simple choices whereas in the play offs they look more for the big hits and thus leave Loungo hung out to dry... The fact that his shoot out skills are not what they should be doesn't negate the fact that the D make mistakes in the playoffs that they would not do in the regular season.

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#111 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:53 AM

If we're just dissecting the last 2 playoff round exits, here's why our defence was so bad - Boston and LA both have huge bodies up front that banged us around, kept the pressure on us and forechecked better than we could move the puck out of our own zone. Our defencemen are mostly young guys who still panic when the pressure is high which is why we were often hemmed in our own zone. Then, when we're on the attack we often made poor pinches or stupid passes that lead to breakaways or odd-man rushes the other way because our defenders were hurried and pressured.

The big bodies of both teams wore down our small defence over the playoffs. Our only big body playing against L.A was Edler and he was our worst player in the 5 games. Even Hamhuis looked terrible at times because he too couldn't take the fierce pressure that was put on us.

So how do we deal with an intense forecheck and high pressure like this? We get bigger on the back-end and we get more experienced. Salo is our only guy who's been in the league a long time and when he's out of the lineup it shows - our younger guys like Bieksa and Edler become turnover machines because they have no one on the bench to calm them down.

Look at what veterans like Mitchell and Greene did to the young kids like Voynov, Doughty and Martinec. They calmed them down and helped them keep their composure throughout the playoffs. There was even an example in Game 6 when Kovalchuk tried to get under Voynov's skin with a cheap slash and Mitchell went straight over to him and told him not to take a stupid penalty.

THIS is what the Canucks defence need. We don't need Ehrhoff who can score 50 points, we don't even really need Garrisson who's a strong shutdown guy, our main priority is a big, physical, strong defenceman who has been in this league a long time, who has seen it all and who brings a veteran, calming influence to our younger guys.

On the market right now there's Roszival and Allen who are both perfect suitors, especially Allen. As lovely as Mitchell would have been to play with and calm down Edler during these pressure moments, Allen would do fine. Leave Salo for our 3rd pairing with Alberts and we suddenly have the perfect mix of physicality, age, youth and offence on each pairing.
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#112 riffraff

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:54 AM

IMO Lu had his best year last year since his first year. I've said it before that his off ice attitude was also far more pro than in prior years.

We can provide bolstering evidence to support either camps position but when it came down to it AV put Schneider in.....

And:

OP you also are a Raymond supporter so.....
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#113 Vansicle

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 07:59 AM

Oh, good. Another finger pointing thread. How refreshing.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#114 realnucksfan2010

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

OP really? The def doesn't play like that in front of Cory! mabey you could put together some clips to that effect, then mabey come up with some reasons why the team plays so poorly infront of Luo as opposed to Cory. I am not hatting on Luo, i am mearly stating fact and what is obvious, I just wish that these types of threads would stop, these threads are not doing Luo any justice!
Just a side note Luo is my fav goalie I wish the circumstances were different, however this situation is what it is and cannot be changed by me or anyone else on this board, the only ones who can change this is Luo himself and MG! Also blaming the def for the colapse of the team, or blaming Luo for that matter is laughable, this is a team game, you win as a team and lose as a team, if you only have 5 or 6 guys actually putting in effort you will still lose, it takes every man on every line and the goalie to put in a great effort to win, not just a few!!!!
The sooner we all realize this simple fact the better, all of these threads blaming the goalie, the deffence, the lack of offence, are just banter, it would be really nice to see some threads about why the team can't seem to put forth the effort required to win!!!

#115 Herberts Vasiljevs

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:24 AM

true he shouldn't have gone down on his belly, neither should have the 3 Canucks in front of the net.....that was horrible all around.

Brodeur does that bellyflop move as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2FABrVm6OE


How many cups has Brodeur won?? Oh, right

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#116 pianoman13

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:40 AM

Schneider has the exact same defense in front of him, and he still manages to outplay Luongo.


The defence plays tighter in front of Schneider. The canucks on average score about a goal a game less when Schneider is playing. Now at first that might make Schneider look even better because he was winning games with less offensive support, but lets look at why the Canucks were scoring less..... because they were playing more defensively! I don't know if it is because they have less faith in Schneider and feel that they need to protect him, or maybe his style if goaltending is more suited to that (like quick, who is very positional).

It's something to think about at least.

No videos in sig please. 


#117 pianoman13

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 09:53 AM

Tell the truth, you didn't include the past two seasons because of how bad Lou was and what it did to his record, but let me help you:

2011-2012 Shots against 42 Goals against 17 Save % .595 W6 L6
2010-2011 Shots against 26 Goals against 12 Save % .538 W3 L5

Convenient to ignore facts when they don't support your argument. I looked them up where everybody looks them up - nhl.com. You think someone wouldn't look them up and you could get away with pulling a fast one?
Nice try back at ya.

By the way:

Schneider:

Career: Shots against 11 Goals against 3 Save % .727 W3 L1


Which still equals 67.2 percent, which is not below the league average. Not that it even matters because there are no shootouts in the playoffs....

No videos in sig please. 


#118 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

The defence plays tighter in front of Schneider. The canucks on average score about a goal a game less when Schneider is playing. Now at first that might make Schneider look even better because he was winning games with less offensive support, but lets look at why the Canucks were scoring less..... because they were playing more defensively! I don't know if it is because they have less faith in Schneider and feel that they need to protect him, or maybe his style if goaltending is more suited to that (like quick, who is very positional).

It's something to think about at least.


...or maybe, the team feels it needs to be more offensive and score goals with Lu in net, knowing he will let more in?!!

For a team that seems unable to adjust to what other teams throw at them, the thought they can subtly alter their playing style depending on which goalie is in net is beyond belief.

This whole argument keeps getting thrown up as a way to defend Lu's poor performances..."It can't be Lu so the team must play different when Cory is in net".

#119 ABurrows14

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:18 AM

This!!!!...

And also,

I will pose a question to you all who have ever played hockey at a competitive level:

have you ever played on a team with a goalie that lets in weak a$$ goals? When it is a regular occurrence, as it is with Luongo, it deflates a team (with almost every goal) in a way that is next to impossible to recover from, hence, the reason why the team plays better in front of Schneiderman. He simply does not let in the weak a$$ goals; thus, the team does not deflate when he lets in a goal. If Schneider were to let in weak a$$ goals over and over again, to the point of being embarrassed when having to watch it on Sportsnet and TSN where it is analyzed and mocked at by the entire sports analyst crew and opposing teams, and their fans, the team would subsequently begin to lose faith in him and he will be the one asking for a trade. Let's just hope he doesn't throw his team under the bus as an excuse like Luongo did.

On a side note, yet relevant... does anyone remember last years game (can't remember which one) against San Jose when Luongo sent the puck right to Joe Thornton and Joe scored? What was Lou's response? "My stick was broken"

I mean COMMON!!!!! OWN UP TO IT!!!!!!!

See my points to go with the referenced posters' points? Me and KSniper88 know what's up B)


I completely agree on your point about the weak goals. I played at a very high level and it does matter. Once in a while you shrug it off, teammates understand it. The issue is when it becomes a regular occurance, or regular enough to make you worry.

As a result, you play tentative, over think and subsequently make more mistakes/panic with the puck, grip the stick too tight as they say.

I was at game's 5 and 7 last year. When Boston scored the first goal in game 7 (fluke, lucky bounce, golf swing knuckle ball that found a hole) it didn't deflate the nucks. I then turned to my buddy and said, next goal wins, if Lou lets it in, he is going to deflate the team, he NEEDS to keep them in it now. Well we all know what happened, he let in the wrap around from the Rat, the same type of goal he chirped he could stop and Thomas couldn't.

You could see it on the bench, heads fell, the whole building deflated, the whole stadium including the Nucks knew it was over. Why? Because he couldn't make the big save when he absolutely had to. Perhaps Schnieder will, perhaps he won't but we know that Lou is too inconsistent for this team.

#120 ABurrows14

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Posted 15 June 2012 - 10:25 AM

I love the offseason. Does the Canucks defense give up chances yea but I wouldn't say it is any more than another other team, and maybe you put the blame on bowness as he is the defensive coach for the Canucks. The rule is that goalies are only suppose to make one save then the defense cleans it up. But time to time you are going have to make 2 or 3 extra saves it will happen. I can see if Luongo wasn't going be traded if Gillis fired AV. But Av pretty much said I have no confidents in and went with Schnieder 3 staight games 2 of them being elimation games.

Now I am hearing that the D gives up more scoring chances against Luongo than Schnieder which I think is ridiculous. The team still gives up 2 on1 against Schnieder the only difference is that and it has been said before is that Schnieders is technally better and rarely put himself in a bad position unlike Luongo.


I agree with you here. There is still an issue with our defense for BOTH goalies. I don't think Bowness is a good coach and we need to move him out. Problem is, he is AV's boy. Would love to see someone like Larry Robinson come in and be the coach there. We do need to address the defensive play on this team. If you've noticed teams have started really forechecking our dmen hard, 2 men in...our d then cough it up. This is simply poor positioning in the dzone and that is the d coaches job to ensure players are in the right spots for support when facing such a hard forecheck.

Chicago started it, Boston and LA copied it, and look at the success it had against us. Interestingly, if the Nucks dcoach would teach / position his players correctly and break that press, we'd see alot of odd man rushes the other way and a heck of alot of scoring, instead we see the puck coughed up all the time (often thats not the guy coughing it up's fault, its the positioning of other players, ie not having a simple outlet pass thats easy to see/support.).

If you watched LA through the playoffs you'd see the last dman always had two outlets, if he made a pass, the next guy had two outlets, that;s support. We don't do that - Bowness.




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