oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think most people agree with this point. Schneider is the way to go because he is better, younger and cheaper. Where it gets confusing is that guys like oldnews still think that Luongo will bring back a blockbuster package. He's been replaced on his own team (that has only had one season past the second round in this current era) but he's still one of the best in the legue? Bob MacKenzie said waaaaay back in June there was not much trade market for Luongo and he was savaged on here. He was also right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 But he also played less games, which is an important distinction. Schneider started only 33 games last season, which means he gets more rest, more recovery, more time to prepare, and, typically, an easier opponent by default as the backup. It'll be a big adjustment for CS, going from backup to starter. Far more pressure, far more expectations, far more work. IMO, with this team where it is now, going with a first-time starter is not a smart move, adding to the logic of trading Schneider to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think Luongo has come as close to publicly asking for a trade as possible without saying the words. If my wife is in the kitchen making sandwiches, and I tell her how much I like mayo on my sandwich, and that I am hungry and haven't eaten all day, she understands that I want her to make me a sandwich even if I don't say the words "Make me a sandwich, wife!" I doubt the other 29 GM's in the league have thought to themselves,"Hmmmmmm... We'd like to acquire Roberto Luongo, but we're just not sure he wants to leave Vancouver." I have no discontent towards Lu or Gillis or anyone involved in the situation, but I don't see how he hasn't advertized his position to the point that he may as well have just said the words. I am kind of tired of flogging this poor horse, because it really doesn't make a difference, and I'm especially tired of somehow agreeing with KofES. K, can you go back to your Lu and Gillis conspiring to raise Schneider's value conspiracy theory, because that was a good time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I don't agree. Luongo's the one who's proven as a starter. He's been very, very good for us over the vast majority of his 6 years. He's signed long-term to a reasonable cap hit. He's a veteran. And his value's low, rendering it not logical to move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 we didn't do much better with Schneider in net against the Kings. Offense is our problem in the playoffs not defense or goaltending. Schneider 1.33 GAA and we still lose 2 of 3 games what does that tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Sounds like some flip flopping. What is a "proven starter" KoES? I thought you could interchange the best and worst without much difference - doesn't it all depend on the team's defensive system? You're contradicting yourself again - Luongo now has a positive contract according to you - signed long term, reasonable cap hit - proven consistency - careful, you were starting to make some sense until you try to revert to table scrap value regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I'm sorry if I sound so absolute, but to me his statements clearly indicate his wishes, and the rest of the league isn't stupid. They know what's up. He hasn't refused to play or anything, and he isn't going to be malicious to the team, but given the circumstances he would prefer to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 And I've never said that Luongo's cap hit is bad. Where did I say that? The contract is bad, because it runs until 2022. The cap hit is pretty good. Geez, for a guy who gets so hung-up on verbatims ("he doesn't want to leave, he never said it publicly!!"), you're sure putting a lot of false words in my mouth in the above paragraph. Well, again, this seems to me like a Vancouver guy who is only aware of what other Vancouver guys and Vancouver media think of Vancouver Canucks. I currently live in Chicago, and over the past 5 years I've also lived in Detroit, New York City, and Calgary; Luongo's reputation is that he is a choker. The reason why people in Toronto are saying what they are about Luongo is that them acquiring him would probably have about a 50% approval rate. I know that Canuck fans don't like the thought that their team is hated around the league, but they are. Sedin's are the "sisters", Luongo's a choker. It's the truth. To think that Torontonians would unanimously approve is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Actually, given your self-proclaimed high level of reading comprehension, you should have noticed that my best/worst variance example amounted to goalies who started more than 50 games, meaning that Schneider didn't qualify. And I've never said that Luongo's cap hit is bad. Where did I say that? The contract is bad, because it runs until 2022. The cap hit is pretty good. Geez, for a guy who gets so hung-up on verbatims ("he doesn't want to leave, he never said it publicly!!"), you're sure putting a lot of false words in my mouth in the above paragraph. Well, again, this seems to me like a Vancouver guy who is only aware of what other Vancouver guys and Vancouver media think of Vancouver Canucks. I currently live in Chicago, and over the past 5 years I've also lived in Detroit, New York City, and Calgary; Luongo's reputation is that he is a choker. The reason why people in Toronto are saying what they are about Luongo is that them acquiring him would probably have about a 50% approval rate. I know that Canuck fans don't like the thought that their team is hated around the league, but they are. Sedin's are the "sisters", Luongo's a choker. It's the truth. To think that Torontonians would unanimously approve is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well...no season yet, no Luongo trade YET, pointless arguing with ES, cuz he doesn't get, won;t get cuz he can't get it...so...time to take a hiatus, weathers good, golf courses in great shape and I can work with AAA goalies who DO get it see ya soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Well...no season yet, no Luongo trade YET, pointless arguing with ES, cuz he doesn't get, won;t get cuz he can't get it...so...time to take a hiatus, weathers good, golf courses in great shape and I can work with AAA goalies who DO get it see ya soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TowelPower12 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I mentioned earlier that we have only had trouble scoring in our last two playoff series, which for the most part is true. To say however that goaltending hasn't been a problem? Well that's just asinine. Very few people on this forum seem to recall Luongo getting blasted for three straight years by Chicago, not being particularly good against LA in 2010, the four games against Boston, and his not so elite performance this past playoff. It is true, we have not scored enough. The real question now is how much offense should we expect? When Luongo was imploding were we supposed to score 6 to 9 goals a game? It's the playoffs! The games are supposed to be lower scoring than the regular season. Goaltending was not a problem in the least when Schneider took over, he gave us every opportunity to win. The "we dont score enough" excuse really only works in his situation. The games he played were kept as close as possible, and we didn't score enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think this is my main disagreement with your points. I don't believe this is as "absolute" as you do. You point to all of these hints and suggestions as absolute proof that Luongo wants out, but I would argue that if Gillis received an offer for Schneider that knocked his socks off and pulled the trigger on a trade, Louie would have quite happily stepped back into the starter's role in Vancouver. You may choose to disagree with that, however, in this case, both of our stances would be based purely on opinion. The statement that Luongo publicly demanded a trade, as EOTM has said, is pure fiction and it appears very obvious to everyone on this board that you and King are tap-dancing around the fact in an effort to save face over being caught out in perpetuating it. Here's a hint: You were doing fine until to started agreeing with King of ES... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Then our points don't oppose. He has said that he doesn't want to be in the situation that it appears he would be in if he were to stay, which is the only reason he wants out. His comments also lead me to believe that he would be happy to stay if he were the guy. And really, somehow agreeing with KoES was never part of the plan, haha. I've been arguing with him for most of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Almost every elite starter has better numbers than their backup. If you include Lu, here is a list of my top 10 if goalies last year who played the same amount or more games than Lu,(55)using gaa. lundqvist 1.97 biron 2.46 quick 1.95 bernier 2.36 .rinne 2.39 lindback 2.42 smith 2.21 labarbera2.54 fleury 2.36 johnson 3.11 kipper 2.35 karlsson 3,17 price 2.43 budja 2.55 lehtonen 2.33 bachman 2.77 ward 2.74 boucher 3.41 luongo 2.41schneider 1.96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 and if schneider was backing up the "elite " goaltenders - he'd be better than majority of them... pointless dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Haha. Put words in your mouth? I didn't even mention Schneider in that paragraph you quote. Sad little attempt of a 'reversal'. Out to lunch. Flip flop. "Luongo's the one who's proven as a starter. He's been very, very good for us over the vast majority of his 6 years. He's signed long-term to a reasonable cap hit" - ironically, you got caught up in a sales kick to keep Luongo - and now you're back to the contract is bad. Your stories are riddled with contradictions, and you're missing the cap circumvention part; his contract isn't really until 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Here... /topic/335000-do-you-honestly-believe-we-improved-enough/page__st__180">http://forum.canucks...h/page__st__180 The fun starts around post #93 imo. Post 181 is pretty telling of what KofES conclusion first assumption to fit the conclusion strategy is as well as a pretty clear implication that KofES wants the Canucks to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Total crap. I am dealing in reality. Luongo does have all the power in this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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