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Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


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#181 CanuckClown

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:44 AM

Deal with my pain.

So let me get this straight - you have 9 posts and have just joined CDC.
You analyse me and say I'm patronizing - then when I ask you how you would handle it, you say "One should be able to have a discussion without needing to psycho analyse others." Yeah...but...you just did that...

In other words...maybe you should take your own advice or at the very least get to see what is really going on here before chirping in...


Umm, is this response for real?!? I didn't psycho analyse you - I stated that the nature of your post was patronizing. Is the difference not obvious?

EDIT: I'm just going to stop the discussion with you right now - I can see that this will just end up being a painful exercise. If it makes you feel better I'll say you are right and I'm wrong. Well done.

Edited by CanuckClown, 22 August 2012 - 11:46 AM.

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#182 Heretic

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:47 AM

Umm, is this response for real?!? I didn't psycho analyse you - I stated that the nature of your post was patronizing. Is the difference not obvious?


Ummm....yes.

I didn't psycho analyse neither - but you seem to think so.

So - this is an internet forum - there's a lot of patronizing going on - what's your point?

Difference between what?

People being condescending jerks and calling other people names and putting them down between being patronizing? Yes - the difference is bloody obvious.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#183 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:04 PM

Deal with my pain.

So let me get this straight - you have 9 posts and have just joined CDC.
You analyse me and say I'm patronizing - then when I ask you how you would handle it, you say "One should be able to have a discussion without needing to psycho analyse others." Yeah...but...you just did that...

In other words...maybe you should take your own advice or at the very least get to see what is really going on here before chirping in...


What does his post count or the date he joined this Board have to do with his ability to recognize a patronizing post?
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#184 Heretic

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:20 PM

What does his post count or the date he joined this Board have to do with his ability to recognize a patronizing post?


Nothing. Nothing at all. Why do you ask?
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#185 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

Nothing. Nothing at all. Why do you ask?


Because you brought it up in your reply to him. Seriously, are you really this obtuse in your daily life?
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#186 Heretic

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:23 PM

Because you brought it up in your reply to him. Seriously, are you really this obtuse in your daily life?


I didn't say his post had anything to do with patronizing. Seriously, are you really this obtuse in your daily life?

Edit: And I fell for you getting my goat once again....
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Edited by Heretic, 22 August 2012 - 12:26 PM.

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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
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#187 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:29 PM

I didn't say his post had anything to do with patronizing. Seriously, are you really this obtuse in your daily life?


I didn't suggest that you did....I asked you what his post count and date joined had to do with his ability to recognize your post as patronizing

.

Deal with my pain.

So let me get this straight - you have 9 posts and have just joined CDC.
You analyse me and say I'm patronizing - then when I ask you how you would handle it, you say "One should be able to have a discussion without needing to psycho analyse others." Yeah...but...you just did that...

In other words...maybe you should take your own advice or at the very least get to see what is really going on here before chirping in...


I realize you lost your marbles long ago, but now it just looks like you've even abandoned your search.
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#188 Heretic

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:33 PM

I didn't suggest that you did....I asked you what his post count and date joined had to do with his ability to recognize your post as patronizing

.

I realize you lost your marbles long ago, but now it just looks like you've even abandoned your search.


And....can you see it? Wait for it....I was talking about his comment :

"One should be able to have a discussion without needing to psycho analyse others." Yeah...but...you just did that...Ge

Get it now?

:picard:
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#189 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

Edit: And I fell for you getting my goat once again....
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Don't know how I goaded you by asking you a question. If you're so easily goadable perhaps you should actually take the previous poster's advice and avoid internet forums.

And are you trying to play the victim again??


And....can you see it? Wait for it....I was talking about his comment :

"One should be able to have a discussion without needing to psycho analyse others." Yeah...but...you just did that...Ge

Get it now?

:picard:


No, because what does his post count and the date he joined have to do with pointing out to you, that in his opinion, one should be able to have a discussion without psycho analyzing in the patronizing way in which you did?

Again, why did you bring his post count and join date into the spotlight of your response to him? It's just a simple question.
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#190 Heretic

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:51 PM

Don't know how I goaded you by asking you a question. If you're so easily goadable perhaps you should actually take the previous poster's advice and avoid internet forums.

And are you trying to play the victim again??




No, because what does his post count and the date he joined have to do with pointing out to you, that in his opinion, one should be able to have a discussion without psycho analyzing in the patronizing way in which you did?

Again, why did you bring his post count and join date into the spotlight of your response to him? It's just a simple question.


Why do you want to know?
What does it have to do with you?

Seriously, I have know idea why you are here (other than to provoke me).

Edit: Can we get back on topic now please?

Edited by Heretic, 22 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.

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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#191 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

Why do you want to know?
What does it have to do with you?

Seriously, I have know idea why you are here (other than to provoke me).

Edit: Can we get back on topic now please?


I wanted to know because I didn't want to assume. It had to do with me, because the patronizing post in question of yours was made to me.

I didn't realize in your world a simple straight-forward question of clarification was called a provocation?

Sure, we can back on topic.

Did you have some scientific evidence you wanted to share with the rest of us to help prove the veracity of your religion's 'truth' claims?

Edited by Sharpshooter, 22 August 2012 - 01:10 PM.

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#192 inane

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:13 PM

*
POPULAR

You two both fail.
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#193 Wolfman Jack

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:38 PM

I'm saying you threw an emo hissy fit, like a teenage at her sweet 16 party who soiled her dress. I didn't create this thread and I didn't participate till more recently in the thread, and in doing so didn't even address the mindless meanderings offered by Heretic. He addressed me first, if you'll recall. I addressed another poster. But, I suppose those things don't fit your narrative, do they? You may have a sense of humour but you apparently left it in your other purse upon reading a movie quote, which led to your Veruca Salt-esque screed as a response. I get dry dark humour, half my family are English who oft tell their jokes with stiff upper lips and nary a half grin. If you want to redefine humourless into dry, dark and subtle, you may want to let the good people over at Merriam-Webster know.

Now if this isn't a deliberate attempt to provoke me, what is?

Sorry Sharp, but I ain't taking the bait, but feel free to dig that hole you've made for yourself as deep as you can, if you were half as smart as you think you are you'd realize that all you are doing with each post is reinforcing the points I made.
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
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#194 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:08 PM

Now if this isn't a deliberate attempt to provoke me, what is?

Sorry Sharp, but I ain't taking the bait, but feel free to dig that hole you've made for yourself as deep as you can, if you were half as smart as you think you are you'd realize that all you are doing with each post is reinforcing the points I made.


And your emo rant wasn't 'provocative'??

Allow me to refresh your hypocritical memory:

You really need some new material, you used this exact same line on me in the God thread, and if I recall correctly, you weren't too happy with the reply you got. I have no need for you, what use could I possibly have for an arrogant, antagonistic jerk who gets his jollies by being a PIA?


Provocatively provoking, no?

What's PIA? I was curious. I always like to know the meaning of insults hurled my way.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 22 August 2012 - 03:16 PM.

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#195 Sharpshooter

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 22 August 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#196 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

If free will was an illusion humanity would be no different than the beaver that builds the dam. We would mindlessly, or instinctively, go about our business without a personal thought. Of course, we both know this to be false. People use their cognitive abilities every waking minute of every day. It is true, people's decisions are "guided" by macro, or structural, conditions. It is within this context that the battle for agency should be fought. Alas, there are those who accept their fate; treating these structural conditions as innate and sanctioned by "G"od. Hence, religion is the opiate for the masses and should be rejected.

But as I alluded to in another post, the rise of Atheism has nothing to do with recapturing the masses agency. I would argue that consumption - Iphones, shiny cars, diesel jeans and so on - has replaced religion as our opiate. I digress.



Amazing post !!! If only the veil of materialism and ignorance could be lifted so easily by just letting go of so many unneeded and truthfully unwanted ideals and values.

Edited by vanfan73, 22 August 2012 - 03:18 PM.

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#197 Wolfman Jack

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:36 AM

And your emo rant wasn't 'provocative'??

Allow me to refresh your hypocritical memory:



Provocatively provoking, no?

What's PIA? I was curious. I always like to know the meaning of insults hurled my way.


You want to get into it with me when you can't even figure that one out? You better start in the boys department and work your way up to the mens floor.
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
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#198 Eh! Team

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:32 AM

We are God.

If we didn't exist then there would be no purpose for God to exist.

This is why we cannot see beyond ourselves.

Think about it.

Religions only true purpose is to divide us. People just got to start believing in themselves and each other.
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#199 Heretic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:42 AM

We are God.

If we didn't exist then there would be no purpose for God to exist.

This is why we cannot see beyond ourselves.

Think about it.

Religions only true purpose is to divide us. People just got to start believing in themselves and each other.


You might be interested in reading God's Debris (A thought Experiment):

http://nowscape.com/godsdebris.pdf
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#200 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:32 AM

You want to get into it with me when you can't even figure that one out? You better start in the boys department and work your way up to the mens floor.


So you won't acknowledge your hypocrisy? I laid it out for you to see.

I relish the idea of getting 'into' whatever you would like to, except I don't cower behind acronyms when I want to say something to someone. By the way, saying 'pain in the ass' doesn't need to be 'coded'. Men's department indeed. :rolleyes:
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#201 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:12 AM

You might be interested in reading God's Debris (A thought Experiment):

http://nowscape.com/godsdebris.pdf


Which is littered with nonsense designed to suppress one's critical thinking skills authored by someone who is pro-intelligent design.

His view that evolution can't be right because of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is laughable.
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#202 Heretic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:46 AM

Which is littered with nonsense designed to suppress one's critical thinking skills authored by someone who is pro-intelligent design.

His view that evolution can't be right because of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is laughable.


Uh...yeah....so because one is pro-intelligent design that automatically makes them nonsense?

Maybe you should research more - here's a direct quote from Scott Adams:

"I’ve been doing lots of reading on the subject, trying to gather comic fodder. I fully expected to validate my preconceived notion that the Darwinists had a mountain of credible evidence and the Intelligent Design folks were creationist kooks disguising themselves as scientists. That’s the way the media paints it. I had no reason to believe otherwise. The truth is a lot more interesting. Allow me to set you straight. (Note: I’m not a believer in Intelligent Design, Creationism, Darwinism, free will, non-monetary compensation, or anything else I can’t eat if I try hard enough.)"

Second, did you actually read it or did you base your opinion on your own biased view?

BTW: I didn't ask you to read it this time - I was talking to Eh! Team.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#203 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:18 PM

Uh...yeah....so because one is pro-intelligent design that automatically makes them nonsense?

Maybe you should research more - here's a direct quote from Scott Adams:

"I’ve been doing lots of reading on the subject, trying to gather comic fodder. I fully expected to validate my preconceived notion that the Darwinists had a mountain of credible evidence and the Intelligent Design folks were creationist kooks disguising themselves as scientists. That’s the way the media paints it. I had no reason to believe otherwise. The truth is a lot more interesting. Allow me to set you straight. (Note: I’m not a believer in Intelligent Design, Creationism, Darwinism, free will, non-monetary compensation, or anything else I can’t eat if I try hard enough.)"

Second, did you actually read it or did you base your opinion on your own biased view?

BTW: I didn't ask you to read it this time - I was talking to Eh! Team.


I read it....and it's hokum dressed up in basic sociology and junk science.

The basic sociology in this book is things like the mind as an illusion generator, people taking comfort in collective and useful delusions, science as a belief system, the useful fictions in science becoming accepted as fact, and even the idea of god as a metaphor for society and environment.

The pop science is almost everything he said about biology and physics. I was especially amused at the God-dust theory of gravity, which is Newtonian gravity in different language.

Oh, and since you didn't care to quote Scott Adams full remarks, allow me to post what he said further along:

The Intelligent Design people have a not-so-kooky argument against the idea of trusting 90%+ of scientists. They point out that evolution is supported by different branches of science (paleontologists, microbiologists, etc.) and those folks are specialists who only understand their own field. That’s no problem, you think, because each scientist validates Darwinism from his or her own specialty, then they all compare notes, and everything fits. Right?

Here’s where it gets interesting. The Intelligent Design people allege that some experts within each narrow field are NOT convinced that the evidence within their specialty is a slam-dunk support of Darwin. Each branch of science, they say, has pro-Darwinists who acknowledge that while they assume the other branches of science have more solid evidence for Darwinism, their own branch is lacking in that high level of certainty. In other words, the scientists are in a weird peer pressure, herd mentality loop where they think that the other guy must have the “good stuff.”


Nonsense. Scientists are experts in their specialized field. And there's is no debate among the scientific fields as the the authenticity of evolution being the accepted truth about life on earth.

There are NO two-sides to this. The fact that Adams allows for the two sides to seemingly have equal weight in his own mind allows us to see from where he was sitting when he wrote his equally pseudo-scientific philosophy novella, God's Debris.

The fact that you hold it up as some kind of philosophical enlightenment or epiphany or revelation or uncovered truth or whatever, only serves the point that gullible people, who haven't bothered being educated in science, are susceptible to fall as intellectual prey to pseudo-scientific philosophizing rather than being able to use their critical thinking skills grounded on actual knowledge.

If you had even a shred of curiosity for actual truth, you'd go and learn scientific fundamentals and not rely on the musings and thought-experiments of comic strip authors for your understanding about Thermodynamics or Evolution or Newtonian Physics, and whatever else Adams tries to twist into his fictionally based attempt to join philosophy and science, which is at the heart of what Intelligent Designers are attempting to do. They say they aren't Creationists, but they are. It's just that they have re-packaged themselves. Philosophy stopped giving us 'truths' long ago. There isn't anything new to be found in that discipline anymore. It's run its course. It's dead.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 23 August 2012 - 12:19 PM.

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#204 Heretic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:24 PM

I read it....and it's hokum dressed up in basic sociology and junk science.

The basic sociology in this book is things like the mind as an illusion generator, people taking comfort in collective and useful delusions, science as a belief system, the useful fictions in science becoming accepted as fact, and even the idea of god as a metaphor for society and environment.

The pop science is almost everything he said about biology and physics. I was especially amused at the God-dust theory of gravity, which is Newtonian gravity in different language.

Oh, and since you didn't care to quote Scott Adams full remarks, allow me to post what he said further along:



Nonsense. Scientists are experts in their specialized field. And there's is no debate among the scientific fields as the the authenticity of evolution being the accepted truth about life on earth.

There are NO two-sides to this. The fact that Adams allows for the two sides to seemingly have equal weight in his own mind allows us to see from where he was sitting when he wrote his equally pseudo-scientific philosophy novella, God's Debris.

The fact that you hold it up as some kind of philosophical enlightenment or epiphany or revelation or uncovered truth or whatever, only serves the point that gullible people, who haven't bothered being educated in science, are susceptible to fall as intellectual prey to pseudo-scientific philosophizing rather than being able to use their critical thinking skills grounded on actual knowledge.

If you had even a shred of curiosity for actual truth, you'd go and learn scientific fundamentals and not rely on the musings and thought-experiments of comic strip authors for your understanding about Thermodynamics or Evolution or Newtonian Physics, and whatever else Adams tries to twist into his fictionally based attempt to join philosophy and science, which is at the heart of what Intelligent Designers are attempting to do. They say they aren't Creationists, but they are. It's just that they have re-packaged themselves. Philosophy stopped giving us 'truths' long ago. There isn't anything new to be found in that discipline anymore. It's run its course. It's dead.


Sorry, I like to look at the world with blinders off - so I enjoy reading all sources - not just those that suit my needs.

Are you calling me gullible?

Sorry - your hatred is clouding your judgement - I'm into science as much as the next guy.

Now you're saying Philosophy is dead as well?
Okay...whatever floats your boat...
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#205 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

Sorry, I like to look at the world with blinders off - so I enjoy reading all sources - not just those that suit my needs.

Are you calling me gullible?

Sorry - your hatred is clouding your judgement - I'm into science as much as the next guy.

Now you're saying Philosophy is dead as well?
Okay...whatever floats your boat...


There's a difference in reading for entertainment and reading for information. Sadly, you seem to confuse the two at times.

God's Debris is fine if you read it purely for entertainment value and use it to ponder the 'what if's'....but it should not be read as a source to inform you about science or reality or as a rebuttal against the 'what is'. Evolution is the truth and reality of 'what is', and God has been shown to be an unnecessary actor or step in that process.
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#206 Heretic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:51 PM

There's a difference in reading for entertainment and reading for information. Sadly, you seem to confuse the two at times.

God's Debris is fine if you read it purely for entertainment value and use it to ponder the 'what if's'....but it should not be read as a source to inform you about science or reality or as a rebuttal against the 'what is'. Evolution is the truth and reality of 'what is', and God has been shown to be an unnecessary actor or step in that process.


I never said it was - I said it was interesting and thought provoking.

Evolution is just a tool. It's a scientific theory that has been proven via science - but it is only part of the grand scheme of things.
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#207 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:25 PM

I never said it was - I said it was interesting and thought provoking.

Evolution is just a tool. It's a scientific theory that has been proven via science - but it is only part of the grand scheme of things.

If your reference to tool is a guide based on reality, you're absolutely right. If also by tool you were referencing Thor's hammer, another fantastic tool in abstract fantasy, you were absolutely right again.. in the same realm as this "grand scheme" which has no proven basis on the same plane of reality as science, or evolution, or the computer you're typing from to entertain us with such imagination.

Edited by zaibatsu, 23 August 2012 - 01:29 PM.

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#208 Heretic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

If your reference to tool is a guide based on reality, you're absolutely right. If also by tool you were referencing Thor's hammer, another fantastic tool in abstract fantasy, you were absolutely right again.. in the same realm as this "grand scheme" which has no proven basis on the same plane of reality as science, or evolution, or the computer you're typing from to entertain us with such imagination.


"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk and we learned to listen. Speech has allowed the communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together to build the impossible. Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking, and its greatest failures by not talking. It doesn't have to be like this. Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking."
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#209 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

I never said it was - I said it was interesting and thought provoking.

Evolution is just a tool. It's a scientific theory that has been proven via science - but it is only part of the grand scheme of things.


Of what interest do you believe it to be? Or how is it exactly interesting? Is it an interesting piece of entertainment or knowledge to you? And is that how you're offering it to others?

Are the thoughts that it provokes meant to be applied to or challenge reality and empirical evidence, or are they simply provocative thoughts for one's imagination to muse over for one's own fictional enjoyment, like some of the science based fiction in Star Trek?
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#210 Sharpshooter

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:39 PM

"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk and we learned to listen. Speech has allowed the communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together to build the impossible. Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking, and its greatest failures by not talking. It doesn't have to be like this. Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking."


Yeah, it was known as evolution by way of natural selection.
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