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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 3.0


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#871 Riviera82

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:34 AM

You didn't just say that, did you? If so then you have just lost all credibility with that dumb statement. Luongo has an Olympic Gold Medal, multiple Vezina nominations, a Jennings Trophy, and has carried his team to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. Out of that list Schneider only has a Jennings.


Again, Luongo did not carry anybody to game 7!
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#872 BenDrinkin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

When people in this city treat the best goalie this organization has EVER had, this way, it kinda makes me think we don't deserve to have a good team.

I guess some just have an unattainable degree of perfection they are looking for in a goalie. Moronic, really.
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#873 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:01 AM

Without Schneider's 16 wins in 2011, we dont necessarily win the PT now do we? I would say that's a tandem win as well.
Luongo won an Olympic gold medal...on a team complete with superstars! He was good but not the reason that Canada won, barely.
As for Luongo "taking this team to the Final", this bothers me greatly. You make it seem like we were an underdog team who had no business there. We won the PT by a landslide and were favorites to win the Stanley Cup while having a 2-0 and 3-2 lead in that sereis. Luongo did not "take us there" which implies that he got hot and did it all himself (ala Kiprusoff in 2004). No he got lit up by Chicago for a 3rd year in a row, stared down a Nashville team that cant score at the best of times, beat the chokers from San Jose who were injured, and got lit up by Boston 4 out of 7 games.
No, when it comes down to real dollars and cents, Luongo has not accomplished a whole hell of a lot.


Lu could have won those games, and we were so far ahead, it's not like all of those wins were crucial.

He wasn't the sole reason Canada won, niether was Crosby, Niedermayer, Pronger, Toews, Keith or anyone else on the team. The team came together and won as a team. But Lu was good in the tourney, and as the goalie naturally since they won you could say he has a slight edge in importance over some of the other's due to the importance of the position.

You saying that is again is the classic argument we have here "When we win, it's inspite of him, when we lose it's because of him".


Go watch highlights from the playoffs, regardless of how great a team is in the regluar season, you will go nowhere in the playoffs if you don't get the goaltending, and that was no different with our team.

He had 4 shutouts (including 2 in the SCF) and even with the way he got lit up in Boston he still managed to salvage a .914 SV% and a 2.56 GAA overall. 711 Shots against in 25 games (an average of 28.4 a game) and he came through in just as many clutch moments (if not more) than he didn't come through in.

And even with the games he got lit up in, he was still our best player in the finals for sure, that's just a testament to how well he hald us in when we couldn't score. Without him Boston probably would have beaten us in 4 or 5.

And if Luongo hasn't accomplished alot, then by your logic, niether have: Lundqvist, Kiprusoff, Halak, Miller, Howard, Price, Backstrom, Rinne, Smith, Elliot exc. either. Infact Lu has acomplished more than pretty much all of these guys according to your logic.
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#874 playboi19

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

When people in this city treat the best goalie this organization has EVER had, this way, it kinda makes me think we don't deserve to have a good team.

I guess some just have an unattainable degree of perfection they are looking for in a goalie. Moronic, really.

It happens in every sport, on every team that a city is passionate about. Doesn't matter if it's Soccer, Football, Hockey, Baseball, or Basketball. If that team is the cities biggest draw, they are going to have fans who hate.

Have to learn to ignore the haters.
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#875 Dogbyte

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

Lu could have won those games, and we were so far ahead, it's not like all of those wins were crucial.

He wasn't the sole reason Canada won, niether was Crosby, Niedermayer, Pronger, Toews, Keith or anyone else on the team. The team came together and won as a team. But Lu was good in the tourney, and as the goalie naturally since they won you could say he has a slight edge in importance over some of the other's due to the importance of the position.

You saying that is again is the classic argument we have here "When we win, it's inspite of him, when we lose it's because of him".


Go watch highlights from the playoffs, regardless of how great a team is in the regluar season, you will go nowhere in the playoffs if you don't get the goaltending, and that was no different with our team.

He had 4 shutouts (including 2 in the SCF) and even with the way he got lit up in Boston he still managed to salvage a .914 SV% and a 2.56 GAA overall. 711 Shots against in 25 games (an average of 28.4 a game) and he came through in just as many clutch moments (if not more) than he didn't come through in.

And even with the games he got lit up in, he was still our best player in the finals for sure, that's just a testament to how well he hald us in when we couldn't score. Without him Boston probably would have beaten us in 4 or 5.

And if Luongo hasn't accomplished alot, then by your logic, niether have: Lundqvist, Kiprusoff, Halak, Miller, Howard, Price, Backstrom, Rinne, Smith, Elliot exc. either. Infact Lu has acomplished more than pretty much all of these guys according to your logic.


Again, Luongo did not carry anybody to game 7!


He didn't carry them on his back but he played well enough to backstop his team to the 7th game of the SCF. You got to give him some credit for that. He played very well in some games, very, very well and in some cases was the reason we won. If we would have won the cup he probably would have got the Conn Smythe so ....
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#876 Pears

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

Again, Luongo did not carry anybody to game 7!

Game 7 against Chicago, Game 5 (especially overtime) against San Jose, and his 2 shutouts in the SCF say other wise.
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#877 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

It happens in every sport, on every team that a city is passionate about. Doesn't matter if it's Soccer, Football, Hockey, Baseball, or Basketball. If that team is the cities biggest draw, they are going to have fans who hate.

Have to learn to ignore the haters.


I agree.

Stop replying to the haters on this board.

This is what a CDC piss match with a hater looks like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JmA2ClUvUY

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 08 November 2012 - 12:14 PM.

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#878 smurf47

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

Game 7 against Chicago, Game 5 (especially overtime) against San Jose, and his 2 shutouts in the SCF say other wise.

No one argues that Luongo played very well in those games..its a given. The problem was and still is his consistancy from game to game. Playing lights out, then getting lit up is very difficult for a team to adjust to. Schneider is more consistant because his technical and fundamentals hold up better than reflex goaltenders, thus the descrepancy between the two goalies and in my mind why the Canucks have opted to go with Schneids. In one word" consistancy".
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#879 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:39 PM

Considering Schneider's status as a BACKUP goaltender which carries less pressure than a 1G,

Considering Schneider's length of time he has been in the league as a BACKUP versus Luongo's 1G status,

Considering the team plays much more reserved in front of their BACKUP,

Stats regarding Schneider's BACKUP career are skewed while Luongo's are exposed.

Vancouver cannot dispose of the man who virtually single handedly made the Canucks a respectable franchise because some kid comes in and is liked by the CBC.

By that rationale, Hodgson should have been GIVEN the 2C position and/ or Kassian should be GIVEN 1RW.

Give Luongo a 1D and he'll shine beyond recognition. Give Schneider full time duty and the Canucks are no more.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 08 November 2012 - 03:45 PM.

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#880 Dogbyte

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

Considering Schneider's status as a BACKUP goaltender which carries less pressure than a 1G,

Considering Schneider's length of time he has been in the league as a BACKUP versus Luongo's 1G status,

Considering the team plays much more reserved in front of their BACKUP,

Stats regarding Schneider's BACKUP career are skewed while Luongo's are exposed.

Vancouver cannot dispose of the man who virtually single handedly made the Canucks a respectable franchise because some kid comes in and is liked by the CBC.

By that rationale, Hodgson should have been GIVEN the 2C position and/ or Kassian should be GIVEN 1RW.

Give Luongo a 1D and he'll shine beyond recognition. Give Schneider full time duty and the Canucks are no more.


LOL, you have some good points but no need to do a double twisting reverse King Smurf. B)
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#881 250Integra

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:55 PM

LP
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#882 WiDeN

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:15 PM

King, I never saw you answer the question on page 1: "What do you LIKE about the Canucks?"

Try again.
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#883 King of the ES

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

Try again.


Is one's level of fandom measured by how many management decisions that he agrees with?
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#884 Pears

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:34 PM

Is one's level of fandom measured by how many management decisions that he agrees with?

You have proven many times that you have no idea what Luongo's value actually is, which is why Widen is questioning your loyalty/how much of a Canuck fan you really are.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#885 smurf47

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

You have proven many times that you have no idea what Luongo's value actually is, which is why Widen is questioning your loyalty/how much of a Canuck fan you really are.

The reality of his value will be evident, when, and only when a trade has been completed. The fact that he has yet to be traded, may indicate that teams don;t believe he has the value MG does. At this point, there is no right answer.
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#886 King of the ES

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

You have proven many times that you have no idea what Luongo's value actually is, which is why Widen is questioning your loyalty/how much of a Canuck fan you really are.


Luongo's value is dictated by what somebody else will pay to acquire him.

So, at this point, none of us know what his value "actually is". Problem?
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#887 WiDeN

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

*
POPULAR

Is one's level of fandom measured by how many management decisions that he agrees with?

I didn't ask if you agreed with any management decisions made since inception.

What I asked was what you liked about the Canucks.

For anyone who is a fan this would be an EASY question to answer. Some may recall their childhood watching games, or name a couple past or current players, or say they are loyal to their hometown team despite a lack of agreement with management's decisions... etc, etc.

Your refusal to answer the question makes it obvious that you deserve a slow clap for being the most epic troll we've ever had on CDC. The proof is in the pudding my friend. I don't really care which fanbase you are actually from, but have fun watching which ever Canucks team hits the ice pummel yours like we have for the last several years.
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#888 Riviera82

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Lu could have won those games, and we were so far ahead, it's not like all of those wins were crucial.

He wasn't the sole reason Canada won, niether was Crosby, Niedermayer, Pronger, Toews, Keith or anyone else on the team. The team came together and won as a team. But Lu was good in the tourney, and as the goalie naturally since they won you could say he has a slight edge in importance over some of the other's due to the importance of the position.

You saying that is again is the classic argument we have here "When we win, it's inspite of him, when we lose it's because of him".


Go watch highlights from the playoffs, regardless of how great a team is in the regluar season, you will go nowhere in the playoffs if you don't get the goaltending, and that was no different with our team.

He had 4 shutouts (including 2 in the SCF) and even with the way he got lit up in Boston he still managed to salvage a .914 SV% and a 2.56 GAA overall. 711 Shots against in 25 games (an average of 28.4 a game) and he came through in just as many clutch moments (if not more) than he didn't come through in.

And even with the games he got lit up in, he was still our best player in the finals for sure, that's just a testament to how well he hald us in when we couldn't score. Without him Boston probably would have beaten us in 4 or 5.

And if Luongo hasn't accomplished alot, then by your logic, niether have: Lundqvist, Kiprusoff, Halak, Miller, Howard, Price, Backstrom, Rinne, Smith, Elliot exc. either. Infact Lu has acomplished more than pretty much all of these guys according to your logic.


I like your arguments but we may have to just agree to disagree on this matter.
As for the goalies you mentioned, no, none of them have accomplished much, and none of them have been a #1 goalie as long as Luongo. A few of them imo are more accomplished than Luongo...
Lundquist - Olympic gold, Vezina trophy, 43 shutouts post lockout, one ECF.
Kiprusoff - Vezina trophy, Jennings, almost literally carried his team to within a goal of the Stanley Cup. Lowest recorded GAA (1.69) until 2012.
Miller - Vezina trophy, 2 consecutive ECFs.
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#889 King of the ES

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

I didn't ask if you agreed with any management decisions made since inception.

What I asked was what you liked about the Canucks.

For anyone who is a fan this would be an EASY question to answer. Some may recall their childhood watching games, or name a couple past or current players, or say they are loyal to their hometown team despite a lack of agreement with management's decisions... etc, etc.

Your refusal to answer the question makes it obvious that you deserve a slow clap for being the most epic troll we've ever had on CDC. The proof is in the pudding my friend. I don't really care which fanbase you are actually from, but have fun watching which ever Canucks team hits the ice pummel yours like we have for the last several years.


I grew up in Vancouver, played hockey all my life (including during an intermission at a Canucks/Oilers game way back in the day, when the Oil featured Mark Messier). 1994 was a special, special time in the city; far more special than 2011, IMO. 2011 had a bit of a sour taste to it throughout. I was very surprised that we ended up getting past Chicago, after Toews willed himself past our pathetic D en route to a tieing SHG in the 3rd period.

Listened to a lot of CKNW growing up, and of course the Team when it began. Things like that tie me to the team, I guess, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with every single move that the GM makes, nor does it mean that I have to think that every prospect which we control has amazing upside and will surely be an All-Star in the future. How does this make me any less of a fan? Is it really that astonishing to think that somebody might think that Mike Gillis made an error in how he handled our goaltenders?

Edited by King of the ES, 08 November 2012 - 07:05 PM.

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#890 smurf47

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

Considering Schneider's status as a BACKUP goaltender which carries less pressure than a 1G,

Considering Schneider's length of time he has been in the league as a BACKUP versus Luongo's 1G status,

Considering the team plays much more reserved in front of their BACKUP,

Stats regarding Schneider's BACKUP career are skewed while Luongo's are exposed.

Vancouver cannot dispose of the man who virtually single handedly made the Canucks a respectable franchise because some kid comes in and is liked by the CBC.

By that rationale, Hodgson should have been GIVEN the 2C position and/ or Kassian should be GIVEN 1RW.

Give Luongo a 1D and he'll shine beyond recognition. Give Schneider full time duty and the Canucks are no more.

pitiful !!!
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#891 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

The reality of his value will be evident, when, and only when a trade has been completed. The fact that he has yet to be traded, may indicate that teams don;t believe he has the value MG does. At this point, there is no right answer.

Or perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there is a lockout right now...

Is it really that astonishing to think that somebody might think that Mike Gillis made an error in how he handled our goaltenders?

Not at all. However, when that "somebody" states categorically that Luongo has "demanded a trade on multiple occasions" (something completely untrue) and that Mike Gillis erred in not trading Cory Schneider before his value was anything close to what it is now, I believe that others are justified in questioning that somebody's opinions.
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#892 Boudrias

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

The reality of his value will be evident, when, and only when a trade has been completed. The fact that he has yet to be traded, may indicate that teams don;t believe he has the value MG does. At this point, there is no right answer.

Gillis couldn't trade him during the lock-out and I am sure prior to the lock-out there was hesitation by interested teams not knowing what the settlement would look like. Gillis strikes me as a cool customer and will wait for the best deal he can get. As you suggest there is no right answer. Even the Hodgson/Kassian deal will have ? marks for a couple of years. The assumption is that a Loungo deal brings immediate benefits to the Canucks but there is no guarantee.
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#893 King of the ES

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

Not at all. However, when that "somebody" states categorically that Luongo has "demanded a trade on multiple occasions" (something completely untrue) and that Mike Gillis erred in not trading Cory Schneider before his value was anything close to what it is now, I believe that others are justified in questioning that somebody's opinions.


Of course, but that's not what he did. He resorted to the "you're not a real fan!" line.
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#894 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

Of course, but that's not what he did. He resorted to the "you're not a real fan!" line.


I also questioned this. He was right in asking and he was right in asking again in light of a lack of answer. You did however answer his query well.
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#895 playboi19

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:08 AM

Considering Schneider's status as a BACKUP goaltender which carries less pressure than a 1G,

Considering Schneider's length of time he has been in the league as a BACKUP versus Luongo's 1G status,

Considering the team plays much more reserved in front of their BACKUP,

Stats regarding Schneider's BACKUP career are skewed while Luongo's are exposed.

Vancouver cannot dispose of the man who virtually single handedly made the Canucks a respectable franchise because some kid comes in and is liked by the CBC.

By that rationale, Hodgson should have been GIVEN the 2C position and/ or Kassian should be GIVEN 1RW.

Give Luongo a 1D and he'll shine beyond recognition. Give Schneider full time duty and the Canucks are no more.

Schneider is the cheaper, younger, less mentally and less physically damaged option.
- He's better with the media
- He doesn't get rattled by bad goals

Edited by playboi19, 09 November 2012 - 11:08 AM.

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#896 WiDeN

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:10 AM

I grew up in Vancouver, played hockey all my life (including during an intermission at a Canucks/Oilers game way back in the day, when the Oil featured Mark Messier). 1994 was a special, special time in the city; far more special than 2011, IMO. 2011 had a bit of a sour taste to it throughout. I was very surprised that we ended up getting past Chicago, after Toews willed himself past our pathetic D en route to a tieing SHG in the 3rd period.

Listened to a lot of CKNW growing up, and of course the Team when it began. Things like that tie me to the team, I guess, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with every single move that the GM makes, nor does it mean that I have to think that every prospect which we control has amazing upside and will surely be an All-Star in the future. How does this make me any less of a fan? Is it really that astonishing to think that somebody might think that Mike Gillis made an error in how he handled our goaltenders?

What makes you less of a fan is that even though you were presented with an easy opportunity to say ANYTHING positive regarding the Canucks you made it like pulling teeth. You would think that someone who is a fan would offer up some sort of a reason why they are one. It takes no prompting to have you spew regurgitated garbage about how everything the Canucks do or have done smell like week old kitchen refuse, but it takes a cattle prod to get you to say something that might be a positive remark.
You are no fan. You are only aware of the Canucks to have the satisfaction of arguing with people that are.

Edit: Oh, congratulations of being a TimBit player. That takes some serious skill.

Edited by WiDeN, 09 November 2012 - 11:13 AM.

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#897 smurf47

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

What makes you less of a fan is that even though you were presented with an easy opportunity to say ANYTHING positive regarding the Canucks you made it like pulling teeth. You would think that someone who is a fan would offer up some sort of a reason why they are one. It takes no prompting to have you spew regurgitated garbage about how everything the Canucks do or have done smell like week old kitchen refuse, but it takes a cattle prod to get you to say something that might be a positive remark.
You are no fan. You are only aware of the Canucks to have the satisfaction of arguing with people that are.

This is a forum about Luongo, not the Canucks. Just because one may not be a fan of a particular player, , whether it be Luongo, Raymond, Ballard or whoever, does not reflect on that person position as a fan of the Canucks. Were we not fans, none of us would be chirping here !
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#898 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

Of course, but that's not what he did. He resorted to the "you're not a real fan!" line.


I agree. The whole questioning people's commitment to the team is silly, IMO. There is the odd troll that comes to CDC just to stir up the masses, but the vast majority of people who spend time on this board are Canuck fans.

We may not always agree on how best to show it, but I suppose that's up to each individual.

Personally, I always strive to debate the person's opinions, rather than their personalities.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#899 NME

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

The only year that Schneider has had as a starter as a professional is 09/10. His other years he has been a 1a or a backup.

In 09/10, Schneider looked just as calm and collected as we are used to seeing him playing in the NHL. However, he was prone to bad games where it looked like he couldn't stop the easiest shots. He had 5 games where his GAA was 6 or higher (Luongo had 4 of these games last year). He had 2 entire months where is GAA was 3 or higher (luongo's GAA went over 3 in October). All of his other months were closer to a GAA of 2.

For everyone saying that Schneider is consistent, we have no idea how he will respond to starter minutes in the NHL. If his previous starter minutes are taken into consideration, we may be having the same "inconsistency" conversations with him as well.
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#900 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:24 PM

The only year that Schneider has had as a starter as a professional is 09/10. His other years he has been a 1a or a backup.

In 09/10, Schneider looked just as calm and collected as we are used to seeing him playing in the NHL. However, he was prone to bad games where it looked like he couldn't stop the easiest shots. He had 5 games where his GAA was 6 or higher (Luongo had 4 of these games last year). He had 2 entire months where is GAA was 3 or higher (luongo's GAA went over 3 in October). All of his other months were closer to a GAA of 2.

For everyone saying that Schneider is consistent, we have no idea how he will respond to starter minutes in the NHL. If his previous starter minutes are taken into consideration, we may be having the same "inconsistency" conversations with him as well.


Oh we will certainly have this conversation at some time in the future. Combine rabbid fans, unforgiving media and time, and one has the recipe of a goaltender graveyard rebirth.

If this is about legacy and building a team on the Detroit blueprint, then Luongo retires a Canucks and Schneider gets traded for much needed help in scoring via either forward or defense.

Through time, every goaltender has the priviledge of having critics descend upon them with frustration and blame. Nothing is abnormal in Luongo's world. Fans in such a microscope market are frustrated and would surely welcome a Cup delivered by Luongo or Schneider. From my perspetive, Luongo is much closer to doing that than Schneider. There is a great difference between playing your second Stanley Cup Finals and trying to get there for the first time. The Canucks are lucky they have a goaltender that has gone through a Stanley Cup Finals already.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 09 November 2012 - 08:26 PM.

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