smurf47 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yeah, what a revelation... The risk is obvious and apparent, which is why I've said all along that Gillis messed up by not trading Schneider at some point along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Gillis didn't mess up; he was patient. Now he has two bonafide goaltenders; riches the rest of the league salivate at. Either goaltender might be traded and that, for a hefty ransom. The only quality required is patience. Best case scenario, both goaltenders play lights out, making it more difficult for Gillis to make a move. In Larsheid's own words; "it is a nice problem to have". To me, if a goaltender is to be moved, it will be to the highest bidder at te trade deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Lol,,too funny,,this is what you posted on the last page,,but now Botchford word is gold,,did you not post this last page "Yeah - this has been done before but Botchford didn't lie, he was just wrong - hadn't checked his facts or published the rumour based on a soft source - surprise, not everything the Province publishes has credibility Anyway Botchford has since backtracked and corrected the rumour - Gillis rejected the Schenn offer, not Luongo. Just one more reason I have faith in our GM - and if you read between the lines, the Schenn offer clearly means that Luongo is worth at least 10 first round picks to them..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 A lot of d-men of his ilk can't skate. Adam Foote couldn't skate, Willie Mitchell can't skate. And again, you can't forget his age. He's roughly 3 months older than Cody Hodgson. 10 months older than Jordan Schroeder. It might feel like he's been around forever, but he's still got a long, long career ahead of him. And his numbers have gotten better every year. Cap space is an OK benefit, but it does need to be used for it to be a benefit. So it potentially would help us now, but you're gaining roughly the same in cap space with Schenn as you would with Upshall. And then with Upshall, there's the issue of a guy earning $3.5M likely playing on the bottom six. Not ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 If guys like that are so valuable, why do we keep getting rid of them? Hodgson, Wellwood, Bernier, Grabner, Torres... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 That is a really odd grab bag of unrelated types of players you have lumped there - and none of those guys have the two way, versatile game that Upshall does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampy Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/11/29/spector_brian_burke_fourth_year_anniversary/?site=www Burke's statement that his teams are built from the goaltender out has been his biggest problem. He has to be going hard after Lu, a proven goaltender. The Canucks need to get a very good player back, not another role player. Lu and whatever for Rielly, Kessel or Gardiner Mark Spector Sports Net Four years into Brian Burke's reign atop the Toronto Maple Leafs, the question is not, "Has Burke lived up to the expectations of Maple Leafs fans?" The question is perhaps better put, "Has Brian Burke lived up to his own promises?" Judge him not, Leafs fan, on what you hoped he might accomplish. Judge your GM on what he said he'd do, and you can decide for yourself if, after four years at the helm, this ship is being steered to your liking. Are the Leafs built "from the net out," the way Burke said he always constructed his teams? Or after four years do we look at James Reimer and Ben Scrivens and see two question marks in goal? Do you look at Burke's defensive corps, with a couple of nice players (Dion Phaneuf, Jake Gardiner) but still plenty of over-priced, middling talent (John-Michael Liles, Mike Komisarek) and say, "Meh." After four seasons, is that plank in Burke's plan more of a finished product, or still a work in progress? Toronto, Burke promised all along, would be big, and of course truculent. Well? We're four years in. Are they either? And what of the rebuild? Burke was the first to promise that this would not be the traditional, Edmonton-like rebuild, where a franchise bottomed out and collected No. 1 draft picks. Slowly building a winner through draft and development, while losing all the way. Are today's Leafs much different than Edmonton? If so, how? So, let's take stock: after four years out of the playoffs, was this rebuild really expedited? Is Toronto even a better team today than the Edmontons, the Floridas, the Colorados, or any of the other clubs who have been rebuilding concurrently with the Leafs? Taking stock on the fourth anniversary of his hire, it seems Burke's biggest problems have been created by his own bravado. And don't get us wrong - we love bravado. He has had the courage to tell us what he was planning to accomplish, eschewing the "under-promise and over-deliver" credo that others follow. Burke's only problems have come when he has failed to live up to his own standards. Like the time he stated that, in order to part with defenceman Tomas Kaberle in trade, "It has to be a package just like I paid when I got Chris Pronger from Edmonton." That package brought Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, two first round picks and a second rounder to the Oilers, back in 2006. Two years later after that statement, when Burke finally unloaded Kaberle to Boston, the return was Joe Colborne, a first-round pick and a second-rounder. Burke dealt the first-rounder away (for the promising Tyler Biggs) and the second round pick as well. Colborne might one day be good, but he likely won't be Jordan Eberle, whom the Oilers drafted with one of their picks from the Pronger trade. So that Pronger-like promise is perhaps a metaphor for Burke's tenure, a deal that was oversold from the start, and couldn't possibly live up to the hype. Now, we are four years into a non-traditional (read: faster) rebuild, and fans look at the Maple Leafs and think. "Is this it?" Today, the Leafs have a farm team that has been seriously shored up, yes. But isn't that a tenet of a patent, traditional rebuild? They've got some prospects, but the Marlies leading scorer is a 34-year-old, 5-foot-9 journeyman named Keith Aucoin. In his third year of pro hockey, Nazem Kadri has 15 points in 17 Marlies games, but as time passes, Burke's initial first-round draft pick (seventh overall in 2009) has not yet been labeled as an impact player in the NHL by any scout or hockey executive we've spoken to. Today, as the league and its players' association announce that mediation was unsuccessful, taking one step closer to the cancelation of the 2012-13 season, such a result likely wouldn't be bad for Burke's Leafs. Their prospects will get one more year of seasoning, there are no brash promises to be made during a lockout, and perhaps when the trading ban is lifted and the game resumes, Burke will pull off that long-rumoured deal for goaltender Roberto Luongo. Then, nearing five years into his tenure, the plan can begin in earnest. From the goal out. Mark Spector is the senior columnist on sportsnet.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Precisely. None are really comparable. Put Upshall in that list, and give 30 GM's a choice of one player. You'd get 30 teams choosing Upshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Precisely. None are really comparable. Put Upshall in that list, and give 30 GM's a choice of one player. You'd get 30 teams choosing Upshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 http://www.sportsnet...rsary/?site=www Burke's statement that his teams are built from the goaltender out has been his biggest problem. He has to be going hard after Lu, a proven goaltender. The Canucks need to get a very good player back, not another role player. Lu and whatever for Rielly, Kessel or Gardiner Mark Spector Sports Net Four years into Brian Burke's reign atop the Toronto Maple Leafs, the question is not, "Has Burke lived up to the expectations of Maple Leafs fans?" The question is perhaps better put, "Has Brian Burke lived up to his own promises?" Judge him not, Leafs fan, on what you hoped he might accomplish. Judge your GM on what he said he'd do, and you can decide for yourself if, after four years at the helm, this ship is being steered to your liking. Are the Leafs built "from the net out," the way Burke said he always constructed his teams? Or after four years do we look at James Reimer and Ben Scrivens and see two question marks in goal? Do you look at Burke's defensive corps, with a couple of nice players (Dion Phaneuf, Jake Gardiner) but still plenty of over-priced, middling talent (John-Michael Liles, Mike Komisarek) and say, "Meh." After four seasons, is that plank in Burke's plan more of a finished product, or still a work in progress? Toronto, Burke promised all along, would be big, and of course truculent. Well? We're four years in. Are they either? And what of the rebuild? Burke was the first to promise that this would not be the traditional, Edmonton-like rebuild, where a franchise bottomed out and collected No. 1 draft picks. Slowly building a winner through draft and development, while losing all the way. Are today's Leafs much different than Edmonton? If so, how? So, let's take stock: after four years out of the playoffs, was this rebuild really expedited? Is Toronto even a better team today than the Edmontons, the Floridas, the Colorados, or any of the other clubs who have been rebuilding concurrently with the Leafs? Taking stock on the fourth anniversary of his hire, it seems Burke's biggest problems have been created by his own bravado. And don't get us wrong - we love bravado. He has had the courage to tell us what he was planning to accomplish, eschewing the "under-promise and over-deliver" credo that others follow. Burke's only problems have come when he has failed to live up to his own standards. Like the time he stated that, in order to part with defenceman Tomas Kaberle in trade, "It has to be a package just like I paid when I got Chris Pronger from Edmonton." That package brought Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, two first round picks and a second rounder to the Oilers, back in 2006. Two years later after that statement, when Burke finally unloaded Kaberle to Boston, the return was Joe Colborne, a first-round pick and a second-rounder. Burke dealt the first-rounder away (for the promising Tyler Biggs) and the second round pick as well. Colborne might one day be good, but he likely won't be Jordan Eberle, whom the Oilers drafted with one of their picks from the Pronger trade. So that Pronger-like promise is perhaps a metaphor for Burke's tenure, a deal that was oversold from the start, and couldn't possibly live up to the hype. Now, we are four years into a non-traditional (read: faster) rebuild, and fans look at the Maple Leafs and think. "Is this it?" Today, the Leafs have a farm team that has been seriously shored up, yes. But isn't that a tenet of a patent, traditional rebuild? They've got some prospects, but the Marlies leading scorer is a 34-year-old, 5-foot-9 journeyman named Keith Aucoin. In his third year of pro hockey, Nazem Kadri has 15 points in 17 Marlies games, but as time passes, Burke's initial first-round draft pick (seventh overall in 2009) has not yet been labeled as an impact player in the NHL by any scout or hockey executive we've spoken to. Today, as the league and its players' association announce that mediation was unsuccessful, taking one step closer to the cancelation of the 2012-13 season, such a result likely wouldn't be bad for Burke's Leafs. Their prospects will get one more year of seasoning, there are no brash promises to be made during a lockout, and perhaps when the trading ban is lifted and the game resumes, Burke will pull off that long-rumoured deal for goaltender Roberto Luongo. Then, nearing five years into his tenure, the plan can begin in earnest. From the goal out. Mark Spector is the senior columnist on sportsnet.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Honestly I would choose Grabner over Upshall. He was streaky this season, but he is a capable 2nd liner and the speed makes him more rare than just average 2nd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Honestly I would choose Grabner over Upshall. He was streaky this season, but he is a capable 2nd liner and the speed makes him more rare than just average 2nd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'd take the risk on him any day. His last four years before going to Florida - 8 goals in 19 games, 18 in 49, 16 in 61, 6 in 21 games - he clearly has scoring touch in addition to speed, grit, and can play in his own end of the ice. His downside - very injury prone - but if he comes to Vancouver and is injured, his cap hit doesn't apply, so (aside from salary which hasn't been much of an issue to this ownership) where really is the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I wouldn't mind Upshall either as long as we get a decent prospect and a pick (preferably a 1st) in return To Vancouver: Scottie Upshall + Quinton Howden/Alex Petrovic + 2013 1st To Florida: Roberto Luongo + Chris Tanev (replaces Garrison) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Grabner has a lot of promise. I was really sad to see him go. I would take him over Raymond any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Grabner does have a slight edge where points are concerned - his career .54 points/game is slightly higher than Upshall's .46 - but aside from that, I don't think Grabner brings anywhere near as much to a team - he is a small, not particularly physical RW - his 47 career hits do not impress - and if he can't cut the top 6....(which may also be his fate on the Isles, where Parenteau and Okposo are muscling him out...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks_Hockey_101 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 VAN Grabner BKL Ballard Would you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I wouldn't mind Upshall either as long as we get a decent prospect and a pick (preferably a 1st) in return To Vancouver: Scottie Upshall + Quinton Howden/Alex Petrovic + 2013 1st To Florida: Roberto Luongo + Chris Tanev (replaces Garrison) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Thats where you run off the rails ES !!! The team has opted for the better risk . Gillis has NOT messed up, he is keeping the #1 player, the goalie, and whether you can admit it to yourself, thats Schneider.Is there risk? Of course, but its a calculated by better hockey minds than yours !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Call me crazy, but I think the better option for this team, at this stage, would have been to stick with the ol' reliable Luongo, and trade the high potential but fairly unproven young guy for immediate help that might push them over the top - IE, win a Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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