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Lockout: We should keep both goalie


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#1 canucks_qc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

I'm sure there will have a season this year, hope for an 82 games season. The best for our team would be to keep Luongo and Schneider, when the lockout will be over, there will have a lot of games played in few days and a lot of 2 games in 2 days.

We have the best goaltender duo in the league and it's an advantage we have. Number one goalie usually play about 60 games, by now we can still having an 82 games season, even if they don't play a game until November, every games could be move somewhere else in the schedule. So in a shorter schedule, playing the same number of games would be too much. I always tough we should keep both even if it was a regular season, Schneider showed a lot of skills I'm not sure yet if he can play 60 games per season and give us the same result, so of course I don't want him to play too much games in a shorter season.

I think in a shorter season Luongo and Schneider should split almost 50 - 50 the starts. Trading Luongo or Schneider shouldn't be an option, any of them can't play every 2 days and do great in the playoffs, In a normal season I'll be fine trying Lack, but nothing would be normal for this season. Only on player is on the ice for 60 minutes and it's the man behind the mask, so by keeping them we'll be sure we have a top shape goalie every night beeing able to win every games even in the playoff.

Would it be great to have two goalies who played on a #1 rythm, making us a more competetive team, and no matter who would be our starting goaltender for the playoffs he would have played less games than any other 15 goalies in the playoff?
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We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#2 Tystick

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:53 AM

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Raymond - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti - Malhotra - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev

Luongo
Schneider



It's not a terrible lineup, in fact it's a very good lineup and may be an advantage to us having played less games, especially since the first few months have most of our away games.

I think the only problem would be signing Edler.

Also if there's a deal in place for Luongo, which I think is pretty likely at this point since GIllis and Burke have met a few times recently, it won't matter anyway.
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#3 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:57 AM

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Raymond - Lapierre - Hansen
Volpatti - Malhotra - Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev

Luongo
Schneider



It's not a terrible lineup, in fact it's a very good lineup and may be an advantage to us having played less games, especially since the first few months have most of our away games.

I think the only problem would be signing Edler.

Also if there's a deal in place for Luongo, which I think is pretty likely at this point since GIllis and Burke have met a few times recently, it won't matter anyway.


Forgot Kassian.... my guess is that he will start the year on the 2nd line. If he doesn't play well there it will be between Higgy and MayRay for that spot. I think Raymond should get a crack to see if he can rebound.

As for the OP, we should NOT keep both goalies. It can only be bad for us... goalie controversies, bad media attention, both goalies (whichever one isn't playing) will lose confidence. We should just move lui for quality prospects and/or high picks as a cap dump and then move on from there.
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#4 ilovekevinbieksa

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:16 AM

obviously we should keep both goalies, but it does take up a lot of cap space...
9.3 million on goaltenders is too much. we could be using the extra money to sign a proper top 6 winger and just get some more depth.
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#5 canucks_qc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

Forgot Kassian.... my guess is that he will start the year on the 2nd line. If he doesn't play well there it will be between Higgy and MayRay for that spot. I think Raymond should get a crack to see if he can rebound.

As for the OP, we should NOT keep both goalies. It can only be bad for us... goalie controversies, bad media attention, both goalies (whichever one isn't playing) will lose confidence. We should just move lui for quality prospects and/or high picks as a cap dump and then move on from there.


Let say the season start in mid/late november and it's an 82 games season, How can they lose their confidence if the NHL teams played about 8 or 9 games per 2 weeks and they split the starts?
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We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#6 Dogbyte

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:06 AM

I'm sure there will have a season this year, hope for an 82 games season. The best for our team would be to keep Luongo and Schneider, when the lockout will be over, there will have a lot of games played in few days and a lot of 2 games in 2 days.

We have the best goaltender duo in the league and it's an advantage we have. Number one goalie usually play about 60 games, by now we can still having an 82 games season, even if they don't play a game until November, every games could be move somewhere else in the schedule. So in a shorter schedule, playing the same number of games would be too much. I always tough we should keep both even if it was a regular season, Schneider showed a lot of skills I'm not sure yet if he can play 60 games per season and give us the same result, so of course I don't want him to play too much games in a shorter season.

I think in a shorter season Luongo and Schneider should split almost 50 - 50 the starts. Trading Luongo or Schneider shouldn't be an option, any of them can't play every 2 days and do great in the playoffs, In a normal season I'll be fine trying Lack, but nothing would be normal for this season. Only on player is on the ice for 60 minutes and it's the man behind the mask, so by keeping them we'll be sure we have a top shape goalie every night beeing able to win every games even in the playoff.

Would it be great to have two goalies who played on a #1 rythm, making us a more competetive team, and no matter who would be our starting goaltender for the playoffs he would have played less games than any other 15 goalies in the playoff?


Your analysis about the games in days is dumb but as a business man I would agree that we hang to Louie for now.

No one really knows how Schnieder will do with 60 games. The last thing you want to do is second guess that. Just let him play ... and if we still have Luongo well we got the best goalie combo in the world.

Edited by Dogbyte, 08 October 2012 - 11:08 AM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

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#7 ajhockey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:06 AM

I'm sure there will have a season this year, hope for an 82 games season.


There have already been a bunch of games cancelled so we won't have 82 games for sure. EDIT: I guess they could cram a bunch of games in, but it'd be pretty crazy.

Edited by ajhockey, 08 October 2012 - 11:08 AM.

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#8 Max-a-Million

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

Yikes, we need a season soon! Only way to stop these garbage threads.
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#9 Dogbyte

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:14 AM

Forgot Kassian.... my guess is that he will start the year on the 2nd line. If he doesn't play well there it will be between Higgy and MayRay for that spot. I think Raymond should get a crack to see if he can rebound.

As for the OP, we should NOT keep both goalies. It can only be bad for us... goalie controversies, bad media attention, both goalies (whichever one isn't playing) will lose confidence. We should just move lui for quality prospects and/or high picks as a cap dump and then move on from there.


I think Kassian is a great player, or will be, if only he gets the chance. Hopefully AV can get outside of his tightbox mind.

To further that Higgins, Raymond, and whoever else they play there suck as second liners on a championship team.

Edited by Dogbyte, 08 October 2012 - 11:15 AM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#10 Rink on Renfrew

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:25 AM

No Chance we'll play a crammed 82 game schedule. The rinks in question are already booked well in advance with: Concerts, NBA games, trade shows etc.....

I'm all for keeping both goalies till the right deal comes along. With the Cap space available Gillis will make it work thus not losing value in one of our biggest assets. He's firmly got his hands on the steering wheel.
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#11 Jägermeister

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:49 AM

If there is a season, I expect one of our goalies (likely Lu) to be gone by the trade deadline.
Its a waste to have to quality starters and have to have one sit. It would benefit the team more to fix any holes in our line-up through a trade.
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#12 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:59 AM

Nothing has changed. You take the guy with youth on his side. You take the guy with the lower cap hit. You take the guy who is playing better throughout the 82 game grind. You take the guy who steps it up in the playoffs instead of collapsing in on himself. You take the guy who doesn't have a habit of putting his foot in his mouth in front of the cameras and the opposition. You take the guy with the better sv%, the better GAA, the higher percentage of wins per game played. You take the guy who the team will play for.

Fortunately for us, it all points to the same guy. Keeping both only makes sense if you plug your ears and hum loudly any time the salary cap is mentioned.
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#13 CanuckCup1316

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:12 PM

We have to unload Luongo sooner or later. We are in no hurry but if there is a season, it should be done by the trade deadline. It may take Luongo playing a few starts to show that he still has got game. And for teams like Toronto to see that thier goalies dont.
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#14 hero11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

If Luongo's heart isn't in Van, then will he play at 100%?
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#15 CanuckCup1316

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:21 PM

If Luongo's heart isn't in Van, then will he play at 100%?


If he wants out the best way is to show how good he still is. He probably feels that he has a ton to proove and will probably have a great year.....when ever that happens
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#16 rawkdrummer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:35 PM

Luongo doesn't want to play 2nd fiddle, that's why he's pretty much asked to be traded.
Do we really want a disgruntled goalie in the locker room?
I think Roberto get's moved and we'll find a good backup (perhaps Eddie Lack).
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#17 Grapefruits

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:46 PM

Keeping both goalies is a waste of resources and salary cap. Luongo is as good as gone, get used to it. Trade Lunogo for some depth players and use his salary cap to sign free agents.
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#18 K_9

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

There's no way the NHL can have an 82 game schedule at this point. Even if the negotiations are successful and they are playing by Jan 1st as The Great One has optimistically stated, they are already just days from the mid-point to the season. The only possibility at that point is to shorten the season to probably around 60 games, still a vast amount to play between January and April.

Your point still stands though it does make sense to have a really solid goaltending tandem because of how often the teams will inevitably have to play, but at the same time I believe we could use a Luongo trade to also deepen the rest of our roster - especially top 6 scoring - while also bringing back a goalie capable of frequent starts, Jose Theodore?

just my 2 cents.
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#19 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

If it wasn't already too late, I would say let's just trade Schneider, it's not like he's gonna stay a Canuck his whole career like Luongo was willing to do. I mean honestly, I see him giving it a good run, getting tired of these fans and moving onto a diff team. *knocks on wood* :rolleyes:
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#20 King of the ES

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

If it wasn't already too late, I would say let's just trade Schneider, it's not like he's gonna stay a Canuck his whole career like Luongo was willing to do.


I would agree, but it's too late, unfortunately.

And those advocating keeping both, wake up. Luongo's as good as gone. That guy cannot be brought back.
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#21 canucks_qc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:39 PM

There have already been a bunch of games cancelled so we won't have 82 games for sure. EDIT: I guess they could cram a bunch of games in, but it'd be pretty crazy.


We talk about 4 or 5 games per team that have been "cancelled" you can easilly add those game somewheres in the schedule. Without a lockout the players was playing 82 games in 185 days, so by now they would have to play 82 games in 168 days it wouldn't be that hard. The NHLPA said even if the season was only starting in mid-november they could play 82 games
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We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#22 ajhockey

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:16 PM

We talk about 4 or 5 games per team that have been "cancelled" you can easilly add those game somewheres in the schedule. Without a lockout the players was playing 82 games in 185 days, so by now they would have to play 82 games in 168 days it wouldn't be that hard. The NHLPA said even if the season was only starting in mid-november they could play 82 games


I'm pretty sure that all of October's been locked out already hasn't it? More than 4 or 5 games, but I get your point.
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#23 canucks_qc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

Nothing has changed. You take the guy with youth on his side. You take the guy with the lower cap hit. You take the guy who is playing better throughout the 82 game grind. You take the guy who steps it up in the playoffs instead of collapsing in on himself. You take the guy who doesn't have a habit of putting his foot in his mouth in front of the cameras and the opposition. You take the guy with the better sv%, the better GAA, the higher percentage of wins per game played. You take the guy who the team will play for.

Fortunately for us, it all points to the same guy. Keeping both only makes sense if you plug your ears and hum loudly any time the salary cap is mentioned.


You're right, Schneider have better number, he's an high skills goalie, BUT will he be able to compete at the same level if he's playing +60 games per season excluding playoffs? I hope he will, I want the best for our team, but nobody can really say he will do it. In the worst case it can't do it, does that mean Lack would have 30 starts during the next season, I'm not sure he's ready for that. Too many teams made mistake when it come to goalie, Chicago with Huet, St Louis with Halak, San Jose with Niemi... I don't want our team made a big mistake like that. When it come to a foward it's really easy to deal with, if he's playing 20 mins and can't compete at his best well, just make him play 18mins per game at where he was competing at his highest level, but when it come to goaltender you can't simply say well we will start him less games and the 11 other guys(foward) will split those 2 minutes, it's only one guy who will play those 60 minutes, so you have to be sure to have a great tandem. So until we are 110% sure Schneider will do the job of a real number 1, we should be safe and keep both of them.

About the salary cap, we don't have any problem for the actual season, Kesler isn't coming back before January, he have a cap hit of 5m$, January is about the mid season, so when he will come back he will only count for 2,5m$ against our salary cap. The trade deadline is arount the quarter of a season, so let's say we haven't use the money we had because of Kesler's injury, that mean at the trade deadline we could get a player with a cap hit of 10m$, highest cap hit for the next season 9,538m$ and it's Alexander Ovechkin. Do we really have a cap hit problem?
  • 0

We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#24 canucks_qc

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:45 PM

I'm pretty sure that all of October's been locked out already hasn't it? More than 4 or 5 games, but I get your point.


82 games have been "cancelled" 82 games divide per 15(you need 2 teams to play a game) equal 5,46, so instead I should have said only 5 or 6 games per team have been "cancelled". In my mind if the season start on mid November or earlier and the season end on April 15, it will be a 151 days season, teams had to play 7 times 2 games in 2 days, 151-14=137 days, and then you have to play the 68 games left in 137 days, in the worst case, they could add a week in April, everything will work fine. Don't forget you are only playing 41 home games, so I'm sure they can easilly find date with empty arena to play those "relocated" games.
  • 0

We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#25 Touchet

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:40 AM

You're right, Schneider have better number, he's an high skills goalie, BUT will he be able to compete at the same level if he's playing +60 games per season excluding playoffs? I hope he will, I want the best for our team, but nobody can really say he will do it. In the worst case it can't do it, does that mean Lack would have 30 starts during the next season, I'm not sure he's ready for that. Too many teams made mistake when it come to goalie, Chicago with Huet, St Louis with Halak, San Jose with Niemi... I don't want our team made a big mistake like that. When it come to a foward it's really easy to deal with, if he's playing 20 mins and can't compete at his best well, just make him play 18mins per game at where he was competing at his highest level, but when it come to goaltender you can't simply say well we will start him less games and the 11 other guys(foward) will split those 2 minutes, it's only one guy who will play those 60 minutes, so you have to be sure to have a great tandem. So until we are 110% sure Schneider will do the job of a real number 1, we should be safe and keep both of them.

About the salary cap, we don't have any problem for the actual season, Kesler isn't coming back before January, he have a cap hit of 5m$, January is about the mid season, so when he will come back he will only count for 2,5m$ against our salary cap. The trade deadline is arount the quarter of a season, so let's say we haven't use the money we had because of Kesler's injury, that mean at the trade deadline we could get a player with a cap hit of 10m$, highest cap hit for the next season 9,538m$ and it's Alexander Ovechkin. Do we really have a cap hit problem?


I fail to see how St. Louis messed up with their goaltending situation in regards to Halak specifically. Before acquiring him, they had Chris Mason and Ty Conklin as their 1 and 2. Not exactly the most sound tandem. They didn't give up a ton, and even with the surprising play of Elliott this past season I think they've managed their minutes and salary wonderfully.
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#26 canucks_qc

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:30 AM

I fail to see how St. Louis messed up with their goaltending situation in regards to Halak specifically. Before acquiring him, they had Chris Mason and Ty Conklin as their 1 and 2. Not exactly the most sound tandem. They didn't give up a ton, and even with the surprising play of Elliott this past season I think they've managed their minutes and salary wonderfully.


They messed up because they was sure when they aquired him he was going to be a number 1 goalie who would get 30 wins every season, first season with the Blues he had a record of 27-21-7-7, Bishop and Conklin are the other goalies who played for them. They realised playing over 50 games was too much for Halak and then they sign Brian Elliott. Second season of Halak with the Blues, he have a record of 26-12-7-6. Halak was at his best playing less than 50 games, helped by Elliott and the great defensive system of Ken Hitchcock they won their division titles and was 3rd in the league last season. You can be sure if Halak played more than 50 games and Hitchcock haven't became their coach they would have miss the playoffs again.
  • 0

We have more than we think in common with ''Le Canadien de Montréal''

Both have logo shapped in ''C''

Canadien and Canucks mean the samething

We both hate the Boston Bruins now

Alain Vigneault coached both teams

Rogers Arena, Centre Bell, it's phones company

We are blue white and green they are blue white and red

Our #1 goalie is from Qc, their #1 goalie is from BC


But we have one important thing different and I hope it will change after the next season, we don't have Stanley Cup banner


#27 Red Light Racicot

Red Light Racicot

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:19 PM

The only reason Luongo is still a Canuck is very likely because of Gillis' ineptitude to swing a deal (imo)

It would be absurd to have this guy playing second fiddle.

Your now ex-franchise goalie with his massive contract is now on display at the bench?

Lets not humiliate the guy and squander cap room like that if you please.
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#28 King of the ES

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:50 PM

The only reason Luongo is still a Canuck is very likely because of Gillis' ineptitude to swing a deal (imo)

It would be absurd to have this guy playing second fiddle.

Your now ex-franchise goalie with his massive contract is now on display at the bench?

Lets not humiliate the guy and squander cap room like that if you please.


Yup.

And the one thing that none of the "let's keep both!" advocates have an answer for is the fact that his value has nowhere to go but down with each passing day that Roberto Luongo is an NHL backup.
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