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miles.p

Coaching decisions

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Why are fans surprised by lack of team work, team effort and leadership? When the majority of the players have no clue what their roles are from 1 game to the next?

Goalie = coin toss

D pairings = mix and match

Top line = Sedins + Burrows or someone

Everyone else = lucky to have a line mate for more than a few games

Players job is to perform. Coaches job is to get all the players to work as a team.

After 6+ seasons, it's kind of hard to blame all the players and not question the guys in charge of ice time and telling them what to do.

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Exactly.

AV got lucky when he threw Burrows with the Sedins. now he thinks if he just tosses players around with different partners or linemates, something will "click".   By luck, he found a great, effective line in Hansen, Schroeder and Raymond.  They wer fast, putting up points and defensively responsible.  He broke them up!!!

There does not appear to be any analysis by AV other than everything isn't going great so it must be the lineup.  Maybe it's how he is asking them to play and the fact they never know where their linemate will play because thye don't even know who their linemate will be?

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I agree with this. I'd also go further in saying that I actually DON'T want Van to start busting a$$ the rest of this compressed regular season. For what? To win our 3rd Prez trophy in a row? Didn't seem to make much difference in our playoff fortunes.

All I care is that the players know when to crank it up when it counts. The regular season, for me, is just a way to enjoy hockey. And for all the so-called nights off the Canucks are taking, they're still more enjoyable to watch than at least 4/5ths of the league. (Rather cheer for playoff-perennial Nashville?)

Vigneault will be assessed, and rightfully so, after the playoffs. Daniel Sedin's injury last year gave AV an out. With a healthy squad, and a similar playoff showing this year, he WILL be out, and I, as an AV supporter, wouldn't have any problem with that.

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Why are fans surprised by lack of team work, team effort and leadership? When the majority of the players have no clue what their roles are from 1 game to the next?

Goalie = coin toss

D pairings = mix and match

Top line = Sedins + Burrows or someone

Everyone else = lucky to have a line mate for more than a few games

Players job is to perform. Coaches job is to get all the players to work as a team.

After 6+ seasons, it's kind of hard to blame all the players and not question the guys in charge of ice time and telling them what to do.

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The thing with this is there's little to suggest this style works, long term anyway. Watching the NYR I see Torts yelling constantly yet don't see the players playing with much emotion. Sutter in LA is considered emotional, yet most nights I think he'd show more emotion if he were in a coma.

Besides, I doubt that style would go over well with the veteran group we have. And if a change to a fiery Guy were made, how long before we'd see the first "Has this team tuned out the coach" thread?

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AV is a good coach but he is not a great coach. Great coaches are able to adapt in the playoffs where you play the same team multiple times. This is where AV fails and he fails hard. Look at the 'dragonslayer' series with Chicago; Coach Quenville adapted AV did not and that almost equated to one of the worst chokefests in all of sports.

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Is this the same coach who guided the Canucks to the #1 spot in offense two years ago, then tied for #1 in the Western Conference for offense last year?

Yeah, I thought it was the same guy, too.

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Ah yes, the tired old "he got lucky" argument.

He was lucky that he hit upon a couple of successful line combinations, but it wasn't bad luck when half of his roster was either out, or playing hurt in the Cup final. In that case, he "failed to make adjustments"...

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isn't he also the same guy that led the team to multiple second round losses as well as a loss against the 8-seed team while being the #1 NHL team all season. Also as I recall, he is also the same coach who almost led his team to the worst playoff loss in the history of NHL. It just seems like yesterday that the canucks gave up a 3-0 series lead and were one goal away from elimination. Also if memory serves me right, he is also the same coach who had a 2-0 series lead in the SCF and proceeded to lose 4 of the next 5 games, with the last one being on home ice. His team was also the lowest goal scoring team in the SC history.

Yeah , I thought it was the same guy, too.

EDIT: I will gladly take playoff record over regular season record any day. San Jose sharks at one point were the best team in the league in regular season. They have never even made it to the Stanley Cup.

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In case you missed it, I wasn't responding to a typically troll-laden tactic of 24 scattered speculations. (Nice try in going off-topic, though.)

I was obviously responding to your clueless pic of Av suggesting that he clamps down on all our players for a defensive shell for 60 minutes. My response shows how this is not only untrue, but laughable.

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Why isn't it never the other way around? How come the Canucks don't win games 6 - 5, or 7 - 4, or 8-1. Rarely does this happens. They have to grind out wins on a regular basis.

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Teams flip the switch just before the playoffs all the time. LA last year was just one of many examples.

According to their respective records, Vancouver should have beaten Nashville in 6 games. Oh, wait, that's what they did!

As for the rest of your post, you talk about Vancouver having "problems" with certain teams. Want to actually provide win-loss records for us against those teams the past two + years? (Which is the only stat that matters.)

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I've already listed stats against top coaches but sure, why not...let's do it again :rolleyes:

Babcock and the Red Wings 2-1-1 One of the wins came in SO/OT

Wings record then is also 2-1-1

Hitchcock and the Blues 2-2 One of the wins came in SO/OT

Blues record on the other hand is 2-1-1 (That's better than the Nucks)

Tippet and the Coyotes 2-1-1 One of the wins came in SO/OT

Coyotes are also 2-1-1

Trotz and Nashville 2-2 One of the wins came in SO/OT

Nashville is then 2-1-1 (Betteer than the Nucks)

Quenville and the Hawks 2-1-1 One of the wins came in SO/OT

Hawks are then also 2-1-1

I think some of you guys don't realize the OT/SO wins make the Canucks look better than they actually are.

The Canucks got 23 points against those teams last year but the opposing teams actually got 25 points against us

So to recap, against the better coached teams in our conference, we were actually outperformed... what now???

Ok, so you want to look at this year?

Let's look at this year with those same teams

Det 0-1 8-3 Shallacking

Det up 1-0

St Louis 0-0-1 SO Loss

Blues up 1-0

Phx 0-1 4-2 Loss

Phx up 1-0

Nashville 1-0 1-0 win

Canucks up 1-0

Chi 1-0-1

Chicago is also 1-0-1

So Van got 6 points against those teams. Those teams got 9 points from us

Not looking so rosy now is it???

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It's certainly not looking as dire as you made it out to be in the post of yours I quoted. You made it seem that the other coaches knew exactly what we were doing and were highly successful in playing against us. So I'd suggest that your description and the stats show your assessment to be hyperbolic. One could also claim that those other teams' .500 records don't make them out to be any great shakes, either.

Point is, it's a small sample size and we aren't being dominated by these teams that supposedly have us "figured out"

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Wow that's amazingly witty, you burned me good man. You got me I look in the mirror and cry that I'm not so awesome like you as to randomly attack people I have never even talked to before online.

Let me ask you a question... Does attacking people on CDC randomly make you feel good? Is that how you get turned on? Give it a rest Superman... you have already displayed that you have zero to contribute to any conversation, I haven't even seen you post anything that resembles anything that is on topic of the thread you are posting in. At best you're a troll at worst you probably stalk people online.

You have sick obsession with me, you probably need to seek some serious mental help... just some advice. Grow a pair and post your opinion, or will you have a mental breakdown if someone disagrees with you?

You're a joke.

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There's a lot to cover in that post, so instead, I'll just state my case for not replacing the coach at this time.

I disagree that the team has been playing poorly since the half way point of last season. In fact, I thought the final 10 games or so of last season were quite good, especially considering that Daniel was out. I believe that they just ran into a buzzsaw in the Kings, including yet another Conn Smythe goaltending performance.

I disagree in what you call "coaching flaws" and that the team has "tuned him out". I believe this perception stems from the fact that like most fans, AV detractors are too close to the situation.

I maintain that what you all describe as "unmotivated" or "listless" play on the Canucks' part is in fact, the normal ebb and flow in the on-ice performance of a professional hockey team. If you look around the league, there are far more teams doing what the Canucks are doing than there are doing what the 'Hawks are doing.

I don't believe that changing the fortunes of a team is as simple as "showing emotion", "making an impassioned pre-game, or between period speech" and I've never been an advocate of change for change's sake. If there were truly someone out there that I saw as an upgrade, I would be okay with the change, however, I still maintain that it would be as likely to backfire as it would be to work.

Finally, I believe that the time to consider a coaching change is later in the season, if and when the team is plauying poorly and in danger of missing the playoffs. I would also conside it, if the team had clinched a playoff berth, but were on a losing streak. Neither of those is the case at present.

I would suggest revisiting this topic around game 35, or so...

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Honestly, you are probably the last person who should be making these comments, considering each accurately describe yourself and how you treat other posters here that don't share your opinion.

Classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Great post.

Underdog runs happen. (The team usually loses) but they happen. However LA's run wasn't one of them.

It wasn't a traditional underdog run, that team had the potential to do that and they were simply underachieving all year, a coaching change provided the focus, discipline and got them playing the way they could.

This issue with this. Is that the Sedins aren't the problem. At all, even through struggles they carry this team offensively.

They produce when we need them too, even in the playoffs. Yes they are playoff preformers.

The Sedins are the last players we should consider trading. They do it all for us.

And I think alot of your things you posted could be used in relation to why AV should go, and your reasoning for wanting change (for loving the team and wanting to win badly) is the same logic I have in wanting a coaching change.

We need to follow the LA and Pittsburgh model if we want a cup, considering so far, we are in the same boat. Teams capable of much more that are underachieving.

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Classic example of you yet again whining about AV. You whine and bitch and propose nothing but Lindy Ruff who was FIRED for the same reasons you hate AV. You speak of the pot calling the Kettle black well the same goes for you (keep attacking me because I don't agree with your asinine emotional hatred for AV) , your contributions to any topics are nil, I bet you just became a fan in 2010-2011. You have already expressed on many occasions your same tired weak arguments as to why you think everything is AVs fault, they are as baseless now as they were before but at the end of the day he is still coach so I guess you will just keep crying and whining. Almost 7500 post for you... congrats... you embody the spirit of CDC crying and whining with zero hockey knowledge and you wonder why Canuck fans are a joke around the league. I wonder how many more posts you have in you before even you get sick of the complaining. Lets see if you can get another 7500 posts of useless drivel Good luck with that.

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