vancouver Grinders should be the new team name

[Canuck Surfer]

Plus we're looking for a lost son named victory.

"When ya coming home son, I don't know when."

Yeah it looks pretty right? "We'll get together then..."

And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon. Am I doing this right?

[Ray_Cathode]

Yeah, the team's not really built for high-scoring games. Aside from the Sedins, it's not like there's really one guy with the skill to get it done consistently on the offensive side of things. Kesler's become more predictable, and the attack's been working on the rush to try to stuff one in from in tight in tonight's game. I can't figure out why Schroeder's on the 4th when Lapierre's got the 3rd line role with Booth and Kassian, when Jordan's passing may at least create chances offensively (and yet he's stuck with two 4th liners in Sestito and Weise). Also, not that they're not good but the 2nd line now (Higgins - Raymond - Hansen) is more of a 3rd and they shouldn't be relied upon offensively. Bieksa's injured, Edler's not playing well and the rest of the D (Hamhuis, Tanev, Garrison, Ballard) still need to figure out the combo to work... until AV shuffles them again.

I think for starters the units need to stay consistent until they can gel. That way, when Kesler and Bieksa come back the team would already be rolling.

For now I'd go (it's not great but that's what's there)

Danny - Hank - Burr (keep)

Higgins - Raymond - Hansen (it worked against L.A.)

Booth - Schroeder - Kassian (I think Jordan could really spark this line)

Sestito - Lapierre - Weise (also a win for this line; play maker goes back to the 3rd, banger back to 4th)

I'd also trade for Lubomir Visnovsky or someone like him (Streit?) to man the PP with Edler, then put Schroeder back on the point of the 2nd PP with Edler.

[cc_devil]

If Hodgson was still here AV would have him on the fourth line as well!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Raph]

But I don't see "grinders" as a bad thing. We had a team of "grinders" in '94 and nearly won the cup with them.

"Grinders", to me, implies that they're in there, grinding it out. Working hard. How can you have a problem with Hansen's game? Higgins has been a true asset in my mind. Lappy. Once the Booth floodgates open, I'd imagine we'll be rethinking that. He hasn't had much puck luck but when it comes, look out.

I don't make a negative connection with grinders.

[cammy]

I agree with some of the points here, yes we do have a ton of secondary scoring, however scoring by committee only works when everyone puts in a hard shift, shift in shift out, game after game. The squad needs more primary scoring, rolling 2 lines that can score, a line that can hit, grind, stifle the opponents top line and chip in the odd goal where needed, and a fouth line of energy, smart play and hustle.

Good example - look at the Ducks when they won the cup, they had a archtypical set of lines and it worked well. The money ball experiment is good when looking for supporting cast ont he cheap who can add top value, however you cannot build a squad around it. We have a set of 6 D who are paid a good amount, however they are probably all 3/4 calibre dmen, so while our 5/6 may be better than an opponents our 1/2 isnt.

This is the same with the forwards. We don't need a team of second liners, we need to have a set of lines build for different purposes, and not have a bunch of good average players and have all the costs levelled out. Lets have a no1 Dman and then balance out the cap by having a ELC or cheap journey man as the 6th man ( having Tanev is a bonus as he is dirt cheap at the moment and playing above his cap) The same applies to the forwards - lets have a hard hitting but fairly cheapish 3rd line ( hell get Torres back and have him with Hansen plus a bona fide 3rd line centre ( like Kesler was originally )) who can play the game but also know how to play the shut down game. The Sedins and Burr can stay as line 1 but lets get some proven fast speed scoring players on the second line ( players like Cammalleri) Players who know where the net is, but also how to use their team mates.

4th line can then be filled with some cheap guys who maybe have a point to prove and you can money ball here, with guys who you will be able to rely to play a solid game with their limited ice time.

[Gretzky's Mullet]

Whether or not the floodgates open for Booth remains to be seen. Personally, I think his normal state is scoring somewhere around the rate we saw during his first 30 games as a Canuck (10G, 10A), which translates into a 27 goals/assists pace over a healthy 82 game schedule. Given his current drought, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to eventually heat up somewhat and average out with around 10 goals over the remaining 25 games.

It's probably true that he might not be "a very good scorer" or "a reliable point producer." He's certainly not a natural goalscorer and most of his goals come from skating hard and being willing to go to the dirty areas. He often needs to cash in on the so-called "garbage goals." On the positive side, he's been doing the right things and creating chances (especially of late), but they just aren't going in.

One thing about Booth, however, is that even when he's not scoring, he's still valuable. I'd argue that he earns his spot in the lineup even without scoring a single goal (of course, he will score eventually, but just for argument's sake).

Over the eight games he's played this season, Booth has only been getting 18.6 shifts/game and 13:07 TOI/G. That puts him down at number 18 (in both shifts and minutes) out of 23 players who've skated this season for the Canucks. With that meager icetime, Booth is putting up the 2nd most hits per game on the team and is tied for the 3rd most shots per game.

And that only tells part of the story. Looking at his advanced stats, Booth tops the team in Corsi, meaning that when he's on the ice, the Canucks produce far more attempts on goal than they give up, and have a resulting advantage in puck possession. He also has one of the most positive differentials between offensive zone starts and finishes. Booth starts 42.6% of his shifts in the offensive zone but finishes 55.1% in the offensive zone. This means that when Booth is playing, the ice surface tilts to the opposition's net. Booth also draws the most penalties on the team while not taking many himself (3.0 penalties drawn/60 minutes and only 0.6 penalties taken/60 minutes).

So, while he's not scoring, Booth is doing more than most Canucks players to put his team in a position to win games. His shifts tend to leave the next shift of players in the offensive zone (and often on the PP) and, while he's on the ice, the team tends to be producing tonnes of shots and spending significantly more time with the puck than without it.

Like I said before, David Booth tilts the ice toward the opposition net. It would be great if he could score some goals (and I think he will) but even if he doesn't, he sets the table for other players just by playing the game the way he plays it. Doesn't show up on the scoresheet but there's significant value in what Booth has been doing. If he can keep playing how he's played so far, he'll be contributing a lot of value to this team (no matter how few or how many goals he scores).

Anyway, one of the twins is crying again (the reason I'm still awake) so I'd better go check on him and leave the post here. No time to proof this so sorry to the various "police members" if there are typos or errors.

(the stats cited earlier were from NHL.com and behindthenet.ca)

[DIBdaQUIB]

Booth is a good player from a drive the net, carry the puck standpoint. But he's being paid to score and he isn't. And the fact is, I'm not really sure he even can with consistency. If the team had some depth in that area, he'd be a good piece. However, the team has almost no playmaking ability anywhere. Booth's cap hit is also an impediment to the team bolstering where they're weak.

[Riviera82]

What a sharp contrast this team has gone through in just a couple of years. It seems like only yesterday this team was scoring at will, blowing teams out of the building home and away, had the ability to overcome a 2-4 goal deficit in a game, and were winning games in bunches. I remember when GM place/Rogers arena was a very difficult building for the road team, not anymore. What the hell happened!

None of the above describes the Canucks now. Our best chances at playoff success in my opinion were in '09, '10, and '11, but it seems now that the team had hit it's peak quite some time ago and is now declining. For this the blame should be on Gillis for mismanagement of players/assets, and AV and his staff for misuse of players.

Ehrhoff, Samuelsson,Torres, Salo, Mitchell, Ohlund, and to a lesser extent Wellwood, to name a few were all key contributers to this team's success at certain points from 2009-2011. Now they've all been traded or let walk away and we are now left with their replacements, who are not getting it done.

Thanks Mike for tying up way too much money in a vastly overrated defense, too much money on certain forwards, too much money on a goaltending tandem (trade one of them already!), and handing out NTCs like they were Halloween candy. I wont even get started with AV. Sorry for the rant everybody.

[DIBdaQUIB]

Appropriate username.

Unfortunately youthful talent at 6'2 and over 200lbs isn't the easiest thing to come by. Otherwise I'm sure that every team would be loaded with them.

[Gretzky's Mullet]

What a sharp contrast this team has gone through in just a couple of years. It seems like only yesterday this team was scoring at will, blowing teams out of the building home and away, had the ability to overcome a 2-4 goal deficit in a game, and were winning games in bunches. I remember when GM place/Rogers arena was a very difficult building for the road team, not anymore. What the hell happened!

None of the above describes the Canucks now. Our best chances at playoff success in my opinion were in '09, '10, and '11, but it seems now that the team had hit it's peak quite some time ago and is now declining. For this the blame should be on Gillis for mismanagement of players/assets, and AV and his staff for misuse of players.

Ehrhoff, Samuelsson,Torres, Salo, Mitchell, Ohlund, and to a lesser extent Wellwood, to name a few were all key contributers to this team's success at certain points from 2009-2011. Now they've all been traded or let walk away and we are now left with their replacements, who are not getting it done.

Thanks Mike for tying up way too much money in a vastly overrated defense, too much money on certain forwards, too much money on a goaltending tandem (trade one of them already!), and handing out NTCs like they were Halloween candy. I wont even get started with AV. Sorry for the rant everybody.

[VancouverCanucksRock]

The pot calling the kettle?

[Silfverberg Snipes]

Hahaha. Looks like our window is - dare I say it - closed?

Looking forward to a MAJOR shakeup this offseason. Trade Booth and Ballard for a bag of pucks. We're starting to get overloaded with these garbage contracts. Nab Ales Hemsky in the offseason. Would LOVE him alongside Kesler.

[RU SERIOUS]

since the canucks have so many grinders on the team..........

lappy, higgins, hansen, kassian, booth who knows what this guy is?

ebbet, weise, sesito,

is there more?

basic structure of the canucks

1 scoring line

line 2 grinders

line 3 grinders

line 4 - skate around and do nothing

[UFTcan]

While your words may be upsetting to some - they are the absolute truth of todays Canuck line-up. MG needed to start wholesale trades right after "the great Luongo letdown" of 2011 while many players had peak value. Instead he decided to keep the team intact for the last two years with only minor changes - most of which have not worked out. Now our team is two years older, more battered and in dire need of rejuvination. I agree it's time to start the disassembly and get to it as soon as possible as this team is getting old, tired and too laid back for anyones liking. Of course and needless to Say, the AV ERA is now over. So get on with it MG. Pull your head out of the sand and get the hatchet out! The fans of vancouver do not deserve another decade of slow decline. We've had 4 decades of that complacent BS and will not tolerate it anymore. If players can't perform - disect them and find someone who will at least try rather then float through each game. The canucks have become a soft, complacent, retirement destination team and that needs to change.

[Shea Weber TKO]

We also had a scrappy 60 goal scorer. We also had Linden putting up 30+ goals, two other 20+ goal scorers, and a few more around 15, with loads of assists to boot.

Now we have David Booth going 20 games (including playoffs) with 1 goal, and people saying it's a matter of rust, or "puck luck." Last year, when he went a calendar month with scoring 2 or 3 goals, it was a different excuse. When he started the season on a 12 game goalless streak, it was something else.

We have Kesler who can't stay healthy.

We have Raymond who can't stand up.

We have an overpaid, under performing defense

We have grit, sure, but that grit is also COMPLETELY lacking in natural talent, except the Sedins. In 1994, our grit had talent and heart. Now we have grit, some talent, but very little heart.