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#361 Common sense

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

Nope, they shot you down fair and square. Besides, you're a big target. Never did see any trickle down from the businesses as promised by the HST proponents.


So do tell - how are we going to pay for everything in Adrian Dix's regime? Raise taxes?

#362 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:24 PM

So do tell - how are we going to pay for everything in Adrian Dix's regime? Raise taxes?


Well, I think putting a stop to corporate welfare programs such as the Pacific Carbon Trust scam the Liberals cooked up is a good start.

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#363 thedestroyerofworlds

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

So do tell - how are we going to pay for everything in Adrian Dix's regime? Raise taxes?


The Lies sure haven't been doing a good job paying for everything. More people working, the resource sector rebounded and they still can't balance the books ( the current budget is another, in the long line of fudget-budgets that come out at election time). The Lies have cut about as far as they can go, so the ONLY way to get a TRUE balanced budget is to raise taxes. It's not rocket science.

Edited by thedestroyerofworlds, 11 April 2013 - 07:44 PM.


#364 Kevin 'The Norris' Bieksa

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

Anyone know the new tax on buying a brand new car?


When you purchase a used car in BC, it will be subject to tax at 12% regardless of whether you buy it from a dealer or from your neighbour. When you buy the used car from the dealer you will pay 5% GST and 7% PST after April 1, 2013 (luxury tax may also be applicable). When you buy a used car from your neighbour, for example, you will pay 12% tax on designated property when you register the vehicle with ICBC. This tax is applicable for sales occurring now and after April 1, 2013.


i dont see why a new car would be less, but over $55,000 and there is a luxary tax added aswell

Edited by Kevin 'The Norris' Bieksa, 11 April 2013 - 08:22 PM.

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#365 Common sense

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

Well, I think putting a stop to corporate welfare programs such as the Pacific Carbon Trust scam the Liberals cooked up is a good start.


A drop of water into an ocean. Consider how bloated and mismanaged systems like our provincial healthcare and education are. IIRC you mentioned cutting out certain management positions; fantastic, except for the fact that there will still be 65000 BCGEU members, 43000 BCHEU members, and 41000 BCTF members breathing down the government's neck asking for yet another handout.

#366 nucklehead

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:17 PM

^ They're not asking.

 

 


#367 Common sense

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

^ They're not asking.


See here: http://forum.canucks...rude-awakening/; even in this Campbell/Clark administration, various unions were asking and striking for pay raises. What makes you think in a Dix-led regime, this won't happen?

#368 Wetcoaster

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

See here: http://forum.canucks...rude-awakening/; even in this Campbell/Clark administration, various unions were asking and striking for pay raises. What makes you think in a Dix-led regime, this won't happen?

It has already started if you have seen the recent ads being run by the BCTF -


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#369 iwtl

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:02 PM

Pretty simple - NDP backers think money grows on trees.

Well, that, and our collective wallets. This was something i addressed in a thread earlier - http://forum.canucks...rude-awakening/ - but of course the NDP shills here shot that down, addressing no tangible points as to how to pay for everything.


complete and utter rubbish. With 13000 BC citizens thrown out of jobs last month the BC Liberals spend some 12 million on partisan adds. The BC Liberals and their supporters are the ones who think money grows on trees. If that 12 million would have gone to help save some of those jobs it would have been been atleast good value - but no. BC liberal supporters are either in complete denial or actually supporting it.
And what is with the childish behavior? Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean as you put it - they are "NDP Shrills". You are showing a complete lack of common sense with resorting to insults all the time. Go ahead and attack the idea or the opinion but this name calling people because you disagree is really petty.
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#370 Common sense

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:43 PM

complete and utter rubbish. With 13000 BC citizens thrown out of jobs last month the BC Liberals spend some 12 million on partisan adds. The BC Liberals and their supporters are the ones who think money grows on trees. If that 12 million would have gone to help save some of those jobs it would have been been atleast good value - but no. BC liberal supporters are either in complete denial or actually supporting it.
And what is with the childish behavior? Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean as you put it - they are "NDP Shrills". You are showing a complete lack of common sense with resorting to insults all the time. Go ahead and attack the idea or the opinion but this name calling people because you disagree is really petty.


By that rationale, government should not spend anything on advertising, citing the need to flush money away into a public sector black hole as the reason.

65000 BCGEU members, 43000 BCHEU members, and 41000 BCTF members - with the HEU and BCTF going on a strike or reduced service or whatever they called it under the Liberal administration, how is that going to change in the Dix era? Is he going to write blank cheques at the expense of the taxpaying electorate, or is he going to stay on the current track and risk his relationships with Big Union?

Your last point about me calling members here NDP shills is merely a reflection of these members' posting habits. I call it as I see it.

Edited by Common sense, 11 April 2013 - 11:44 PM.


#371 Squeak

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:51 PM

It has already started if you have seen the recent ads being run by the BCTF -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMoY2ZOkPC4


If there is one group I can't stand listen to them whining... its the BCTF.
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#372 silverpig

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:47 AM

Nope, they shot you down fair and square. Besides, you're a big target. Never did see any trickle down from the businesses as promised by the HST proponents.


You actually did. You just didn't notice it. Prices got lower in BC.
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#373 HTania

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:15 AM

Albertans only pay GST. Do not know if that can ever happen here.

#374 Wetcoaster

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

You actually did. You just didn't notice it. Prices got lower in BC.

As the expert panel on the HST noted over the short term prices might rise slightly but over the longer term they would fall and this was due to the nature of the PST that was hidden embedded tax and affected prices on so many levels since it was applied at so many levels in the process. Over time the HST input credits business received would result in lower prices.

This was discussed by economist Dr. Roslyn Kunin (see video at the 6:00 mark) as she explains that the PST was hidden compounded tax imposed at various stages of the sales cycle manufacturing, wholesale and retail.


And this explanation:


To understand how the HST will affect prices, it is important to highlight a major problem with the PST. The PST applies to business inputs as well as to many of the goods and services that consumers buy.


When businesses are charged PST on production supplies and capital inputs, such as machinery and equipment, production costs increase and these increased costs are largely passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. In many cases, a product can be taxed multiple times before the final consumer pays tax on it one last time.


For example, when British Columbians buy a bottle of BC wine, they pay the PST on the final price. That final price, however, already contains a significant amount of PST. The winemaker must pay PST on inputs he buys to make the wine (i.e., bottles, labels, corks, equipment used to grow the rapes, etc.), all of which is passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. But that’s not all. In addition, the inputs that the winemaker buys already include PST, since the companies making these supplies are also charged the PST on inputs they purchase (i.e., the paper to make the labels, the machines to shape the corks, etc.). As a result, the PST can be compounded many times depending on the number of stages of production. The PST that businesses pay on inputs is a hidden tax; it is embedded in the price of goods and services and although consumers don’t see this tax, it is passed on, often multiple times, to the final purchaser.


Even goods and services that are currently exempt from the PST (i.e., restaurant meals, hair cuts, taxis, dry cleaning services, membership fees, financial services, professional services provided by accountants, etc. ) contain embedded PST because these service providers pay PST on many things they buy including machinery, computers, software, office equipment, and supplies.



Unlike the PST, the HST is a “value added tax,” which means that only the value added by the business selling the good or service is taxed. In other words, all business inputs are exempt from the HST. Under the HST, businesses will receive refunds (input tax credits) for the sales tax they pay on inputs. Past experience with sales tax harmonization in Canada shows that competitive pressures will cause businesses to largely pass these savings on to consumers through lower prices.



In 1997, three Atlantic provinces (Newfoundland & Labrador, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia) harmonized their PST with the federal GST. University of Toronto professors Michael Smart and Richard Bird examined the effects of harmonization in Atlantic Canada and found that, with a few exceptions (i.e., shelter, clothing, and footwear), overall consumer prices in the harmonizing provinces fell after the 1997 reforms (Smart and Bird, 2009). Of course, the prices of some items that were previously exempt from sales taxes increased, but the overall price level came down. The authors found that businesses passed on between 60 and 100 percent of cost savings to consumers in the first year after harmonization.

http://www.fraserins...-HST-myth-4.pdf
To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#375 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

Man, the HST sounded like a good tax system.

Thanks for nothing Gordon Campbell. I hope you're enjoying your tea over seas in exile.

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#376 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:40 AM

:towel:

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#377 Harbinger

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:54 AM

As the expert panel on the HST noted over the short term prices might rise slightly but over the longer term they would fall and this was due to the nature of the PST that was hidden embedded tax and affected prices on so many levels since it was applied at so many levels in the process. Over time the HST input credits business received would result in lower prices.

This was discussed by economist Dr. Roslyn Kunin (see video at the 6:00 mark) as she explains that the PST was hidden compounded tax imposed at various stages of the sales cycle manufacturing, wholesale and retail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ZsYpXCsrU

And this explanation:


To understand how the HST will affect prices, it is important to highlight a major problem with the PST. The PST applies to business inputs as well as to many of the goods and services that consumers buy.


When businesses are charged PST on production supplies and capital inputs, such as machinery and equipment, production costs increase and these increased costs are largely passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. In many cases, a product can be taxed multiple times before the final consumer pays tax on it one last time.


For example, when British Columbians buy a bottle of BC wine, they pay the PST on the final price. That final price, however, already contains a significant amount of PST. The winemaker must pay PST on inputs he buys to make the wine (i.e., bottles, labels, corks, equipment used to grow the rapes, etc.), all of which is passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. But that’s not all. In addition, the inputs that the winemaker buys already include PST, since the companies making these supplies are also charged the PST on inputs they purchase (i.e., the paper to make the labels, the machines to shape the corks, etc.). As a result, the PST can be compounded many times depending on the number of stages of production. The PST that businesses pay on inputs is a hidden tax; it is embedded in the price of goods and services and although consumers don’t see this tax, it is passed on, often multiple times, to the final purchaser.


Even goods and services that are currently exempt from the PST (i.e., restaurant meals, hair cuts, taxis, dry cleaning services, membership fees, financial services, professional services provided by accountants, etc. ) contain embedded PST because these service providers pay PST on many things they buy including machinery, computers, software, office equipment, and supplies.



Unlike the PST, the HST is a “value added tax,” which means that only the value added by the business selling the good or service is taxed. In other words, all business inputs are exempt from the HST. Under the HST, businesses will receive refunds (input tax credits) for the sales tax they pay on inputs. Past experience with sales tax harmonization in Canada shows that competitive pressures will cause businesses to largely pass these savings on to consumers through lower prices.



In 1997, three Atlantic provinces (Newfoundland & Labrador, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia) harmonized their PST with the federal GST. University of Toronto professors Michael Smart and Richard Bird examined the effects of harmonization in Atlantic Canada and found that, with a few exceptions (i.e., shelter, clothing, and footwear), overall consumer prices in the harmonizing provinces fell after the 1997 reforms (Smart and Bird, 2009). Of course, the prices of some items that were previously exempt from sales taxes increased, but the overall price level came down. The authors found that businesses passed on between 60 and 100 percent of cost savings to consumers in the first year after harmonization.

http://www.fraserins...-HST-myth-4.pdf




I scoff at anyone who uses the Fraser institute as a source for anything. You couldn't find a more biased opinion from a more right leaning conservative think tank?

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#378 iwtl

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:13 AM

I would think the CTF is pretty close but your correct - the Fraser wins !
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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
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#379 Wetcoaster

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

I scoff at anyone who uses the Fraser institute as a source for anything. You couldn't find a more biased opinion from a more right leaning conservative think tank?

A perfect example of an Ad Hominem circumstantial logical fallacy. Well done but irrelevant..

You can scoff but can you take issue with the sources used to support the study and its conclusions?
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#380 iwtl

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

When any study is given a hypothetical outcome as the premise for it's outcome then it is far game I would suggest to be critical of it

Examples both ways

If on the HST if you tell a study group that the HST will result in X number of millions being re invested into the economy and that through reduced tax costs that businuess will be able to pass those savings on - will this benefit the economy? Of course the answer is going to be yes and they will arive at that answer with factual accuratness. It is true that IF businuess reinvests all those saves in wages and infrastructure that our economy will be better. However if businuess does not return that investment then is the same outcome accurate? I would suggest not

Second example

If the BC Fed asks a panel that if you gave public sector workers a 10% wage would it benefit local businuess - it would be factual that with workers getting the raise ( in a income earning group that has litte savings - meaning the spend nearly all their pay each month ) that in fact local businuess would benefit and be able to hire more staff, thus it would be a factual statement that it would benefit our economy. HOWEVER the question never touches on how to pay for that huge pay raise and if it did the outcome of the panel would not hold as accurate - the increased taxes needed to pay for it would nullify any benefits.

Now as you can see I used examples from both sides of the political spectrum .... Not just from one sides point of view. It is easy to manipluate studies - reviews etc if you confine the paramiters of what the discussion is about.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. -
John Kenneth Galbraith

"This is the first test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible value to him." - William Lyon Phelps






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