What a beautiful HST free day

[RUPERTKBD]

They are, That's why they got rid of the HST and went back to the PST.

[Harbinger]

Yeah, you just keep saying it long enough and loud enough and it will magically become true...

"I are smart!"

[Wetcoaster]

There is nothing to keep saying. The average citizen saves money when they buy their groceries today rather than last week. There now isn't an across the board tax on pretty much everything as there was with the HST. The services sector which is labour heavy will pay less in taxes. The HST was a sham from the start. It had nothing to do with being revenue neutral as it was sold. It was about bilking people to try and meet the requirements of a balanced budget amendment.

[Gross-Misconduct]

So you did get taken in by Flim Flam Zalm.

As he said on his clown car tour of the province at virtually every stop...

"Lillian takes me shopping ... just to make me really aware of what people have to go through ... I come out of the store and I say, 'Lillian, I can't believe it. This is ridiculous. How does the average family make ends meet?' It seems impossible. Everything has gone up, in grocery stores and elsewhere. It's on practically everything."

http://www.examiner....s-sort-of-crazy

The HST wasn't on basic groceries, of course. Never was. Like the PST previously there was no HST on basic groceries.

And the sheeple nodded at the spouting of misinformation and voted in ignorance. So sad.

[Common sense]

What's sadder is Gordon Campbell let them win. They lost if not for Gordon's ill advised decision to lower the referendum's criteria.

So sad.

[Gross-Misconduct]

Gordon Campbell is responsible for the death of the HST in BC. I hightlighted key points for those in denial. So sad.

After the HST: What will happen to the referendum process in B.C.?

SUNNY DHILLON

VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail

Last updated Thursday, Sep. 06 2012, 10:17 AM EDT

Former British Columbia Premier Bill Vander Zalm © celebrates the result of the Harmonised Sales Tax (HST) referendum vote outside the Law Courts with fellow supporters Bill Tieleman (L) and Chris Delaney in Vancouver, British Columbia August 26, 2011. (Ben Nelms/ Reuters/Ben Nelms/ Reuters)

The HST referendum succeeded only because of a miscalculation by former premier Gordon Campbell, who bet he could convince British Columbians to keep the tax and get away with lowering the vote’s requirements, say political science experts.

The referendum would have failed under the rules of B.C.’s Recall and Initiative Act. The act requires half of all registered voters in the province to vote in favour of change, a benchmark the HST referendum did not meet.

Mr. Campbell announced last September that he’d accept a simple majority of those who cast ballots, a break future referendums might not be as likely to catch.

“In many respects, it can be argued that [the Liberals]clearly made a mistake,” said Doug McArthur, a public policy professor at Simon Fraser University. “What the past months have shown is that as people talked about it and discussed this, they became more accepting. I think people probably would have accepted the result under the recall initiative.”

Prof. McArthur, who helped craft the act when he was in government in the 1990s, said now that a simple majority has been utilized it could be more difficult for leaders to use the stringent requirements the next time a referendum is held. However, he doesn’t expect any more referendums to be held in the near future.

“In the future governments, will be much more careful about providing transparency and clarity about what their intentions are in election campaigns. You’re going to see a lot of lessons learned that way,” Prof. McArthur said. “I also think that the next time we go through this, it’s likely the government instead of a referendum will consider doing a consultation process and then go into the legislature, have a vote, and avoid the referendum.”

After it was announced the harmonized sales tax would be abolished and B.C. would return to a GST/PST system, Fight HST leader and former premier Bill Vander Zalm held a celebratory news conference outside the Vancouver law courts. Mr. Vander Zalm arrived to cheers from supporters and was presented with a pair of boxing gloves for a fight he characterized as David versus Goliath.

Mr. Vander Zalm acknowledged the role Mr. Campbell played in the eventual scrapping of the HST.

“We thanked Premier Campbell at one time for having suggested that a simple majority, which is democratic, would rule the day.”

Chris Delaney, a Fight HST organizer, was quick to jump in to ensure Mr. Campbell didn’t get too much credit.

“That wasn't an act of benevolence on his part. That was an act of desperation by a premier that was polling somewhere between 5 and 9 per cent. It was an act of desperation because he knew his government was going to come down as a result of it.”

When asked if the fact that the referendum wouldn’t have been successful under the act took anything away from the win, Mr. Delaney said no.

“The initiative legislation was designed not to work. This is a day forward for British Columbia. We know referendum works, we know it has a legitimate place in our society, in our democracy now. The people have endorsed it overwhelmingly. Let's have the legislature go back, both parties, and draft new legislation to make it workable. It doesn't have to be so easy that it can happen every day, but it shouldn't be so difficult that it only happens every 20 years. That's not right either.”

Mr. Campbell announced he would step down as premier last November. Christy Clark won the B.C. Liberal leadership contest in February.

Norman Ruff, a political science professor at the University of Victoria, said he expects to hear debate about the Recall and Initiative Act over the next few months. He said some politicians would love to see the act abolished, though that might be politically dangerous shortly after a major vote.

Prof. Ruff and Prof. McArthur both expressed their support for keeping the act. Prof. McArthur said he’d be open to tinkering with some requirements, but wouldn’t want the bar to be set too low. The act, he said, is there as an important balance, not for use every time a government does something certain members of the public don’t agree with.

http://m.theglobeand...?service=mobile

[DeNiro]

Lol at people claiming it's uneducated people who are at fault for voting down the HST. From my experience people who harp on their education, are not nearly as smart as they think they are anyways.

The funny thing is, the BC government are full of highly educated people. Gordon Campbell himself has a masters at SFU and a BA from Dartmouth. Does that make him some sort of genius? Nope.

He couldn't even explain a simple tax to taxpayers, and instead tried to slide it in without anyone noticing. How intelligent is that?

A group of people are dumb, but a person is supposed to be smart. Campbell was not smart here.

[Lancaster]

Lol at people claiming it's uneducated people who are at fault for voting down the HST. From my experience people who harp on their education, are not nearly as smart as they think they are anyways.

The funny thing is, the BC government are full of highly educated people. Gordon Campbell himself has a masters at SFU and a BA from Dartmouth. Does that make him some sort of genius? Nope.

He couldn't even explain a simple tax to taxpayers, and instead tried to slide it in without anyone noticing. How intelligent is that?

A group of people are dumb, but a person is supposed to be smart. Campbell was not smart here.

[silverpig]

There is nothing to keep saying. The average citizen saves money when they buy their groceries today rather than last week. There now isn't an across the board tax on pretty much everything as there was with the HST. The services sector which is labour heavy will pay less in taxes. The HST was a sham from the start. It had nothing to do with being revenue neutral as it was sold. It was about bilking people to try and meet the requirements of a balanced budget amendment.

[Blame Obama]

5 dollar tax on shoes ( all smiles :D )

[Common sense]

“We thanked Premier Campbell at one time for having suggested that a simple majority, which is democratic, would rule the day.” - Bill VanderZalm

I wonder what the sentiment would have been if 50% of votes says yes, but 50% of all eligible voters said no. What type of "subversion of democracy" speech will VDZ and his ilk have lined up?

[Gross-Misconduct]

“We thanked Premier Campbell at one time for having suggested that a simple majority, which is democratic, would rule the day.” - Bill VanderZalm

I wonder what the sentiment would have been if 50% of votes says yes, but 50% of all eligible voters said no. What type of "subversion of democracy" speech will VDZ and his ilk have lined up?

[Wetcoaster]

That is a legitimate question. I imagine they would have cried foul. But so what? They would have legitimately and legally lost the referendum to repeal the HST.

Btw, It's good to see you not denying Gordon Campbell ultimately was responsible for the death of the HST. It's not just me saying it. It's all there in black and white. Journalists, political pundits, university professors, they all make it clear who really killed the HST in the end.

[Gross-Misconduct]

The uninformed voters were responsible - ably assisted by Flim Flam Valm. You did notice he headed up the campaign to repeal the HST did you not?

[canucks_dynasty]

I got a haircut at my usual place this weekend. I still paid the same as the previous month. So where's my savings that I'm supposed to get??

[Mastaj]

There is nothing to keep saying. The average citizen saves money when they buy their groceries today rather than last week. There now isn't an across the board tax on pretty much everything as there was with the HST. The services sector which is labour heavy will pay less in taxes. The HST was a sham from the start. It had nothing to do with being revenue neutral as it was sold. It was about bilking people to try and meet the requirements of a balanced budget amendment.

[Gross-Misconduct]

You clearly have no idea what is taxed and what isn't. There was no change to the taxation on basic groceries, as Wetcoaster posted already. Yes, you'll "pay" less for haircuts and food at restaurants, but of course those places will have to raise prices to cover the PST they have to pay on their supplies.

And you'll note I said "food at restaurants" above. Since you seem like someone who likes to drink, I should probably tell you that you now pay more for alcohol in BC. Yup, the reversion to PST has also given us the 10% liquor tax again; combined with the 5% GST this is a total of 15% (instead of 12% HST, in case you've forgotten).

[Wetcoaster]

Damn you Gordon Campbell! Damn you to Hell!

[Gross-Misconduct]

I'm not sure if Wetcoaster realizes that with every post he makes pointing out the Vanderzalm lies and the benefits of the HST, he's making that horribly pathetic decision by Gordon Campbell to lower the referendum criteria look that much more foolish.

Too bad Gordon Campbell didn't have the mettle to do what was right for BC. Now the HST is gone because of him.

[Sapper]

That would make an excellent wikipidea write up for "devine right of governance". Unlike in early times where it use to mean kings and rulers believed since God put them into power they could not be subject to the will of the people.

In this situation it could read that since Big Businuess put them in power and promised they would trickle that money down - that the BC Liberals thought they should not be subject to the will of the people.

A right wing orginization would only have people representing them who strongly support this positon - I would never accept something from the CTF as being anything but heavily tinted with the right wing colors.

However in some ways wet I agree with you but with a different view - The sheeple are the BC liberal supporters who knowing that workers where upset and in fact short hundreds of dollars due to the HST - should have pushed their own party to do something about it. You may have believed on faith all the stories of Businuess passing on those savings but my bank wants to be paid in cash - not promises. That was what got alot of workers voting against it - they saw their wallets being drained - no raises and costs increasing. Going into the referendum the exact opposite of what the pro HST side was preaching was actually occuring. Have you seen the massive job loss totals for BC over the last year? Some 33 thousand full time jobs. Since the HST nearly all the gains in employement in the first 2 terms are no gone. If the supporters actually did care - the person to confront was Mr Campbell and not the voter who with hundreds less in their wallets needed to see the money!

news flash - If you gave me an extra 400 bucks per year I would spend it and the economy would improve - it's a no brainer that if businuess saves money its good for them. However where you have winners you must have loosers. In this case it was the working class that had less money in their pockets with the HST.