RUPERTKBD Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Don't blame the voters, blame the provincial leadership and how they brought in the HST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice8eight Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Wait what? since when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I understand the system perfectly. You were the one asking a stupid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 HST didn't help with anything despite what they claim, and some of you pro hst supporters think. It didn't help our economy at all. It's not helping Ontario and it didn't help B.C. Thank god they got rid of the HST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 You do realize there is nothing illegal about paying with cash right? There's also nothing illegal about getting a discount for paying with cash too. You can sign a bill of sale, pay with cash, and you're just as covered as if you paid via cheque or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_More_Larchide Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 HST didn't help with anything despite what they claim, and some of you pro hst supporters think. It didn't help our economy at all. It's not helping Ontario and it didn't help B.C. Thank god they got rid of the HST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 HST didn't help with anything despite what they claim, and some of you pro hst supporters think. It didn't help our economy at all. It's not helping Ontario and it didn't help B.C. Thank god they got rid of the HST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 You know, I keep hearing this garbage and heard it all through the aftermath of the "No" vote. The voters are absolutely to blame. Some of us, took the time to research the pros and cons of the HST and realized that it was to the long-term benefit of the province. Some of us spent the campaign (vainly) trying to pass on what we learned to those too lazy to do so for themselves. As I remember it, Wetcoaster and myself posted in umpteen threads how a defeat of the HST would be a huge step back for the province, but inevitably were met with the same old tired rhetoric: "It's just a tax grab"; "The Liberals lied about the HST"; "I don't like Gordon Campbell" etc, etc... Even when we warned that the seed money from the feds would have to be repaid, no-one believed us. "Education" works only for those willing to be educated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I did as much research as I can, and I am still voting against it. The Pro's were there, that being said, it doesn't mean it will happen. Basically it came down to this. "ALL THE GOODIES WILL HAPPEN TO B.C" but in my point of view, what if that doesn't happen? Then what? We are stuck with this tax? Also they lied about to us, when he was asked if he was going to put it in, he said now. Shortly after election the HST was introduced. Why did you have to lie about it? Good job B.C. High five to anyone who voted against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I did as much research as I can, and I am still voting against it. The Pro's were there, that being said, it doesn't mean it will happen. Basically it came down to this. "ALL THE GOODIES WILL HAPPEN TO B.C" but in my point of view, what if that doesn't happen? Then what? We are stuck with this tax? Also they lied about to us, when he was asked if he was going to put it in, he said now. Shortly after election the HST was introduced. Why did you have to lie about it? Good job B.C. High five to anyone who voted against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/hst-has-been-vastly-oversold-in-bc-report-finds/article584998/?service=mobile I wont copy paste the story - feel free to read it. All of the predicted gains for BC where predicated on Business returning the savings in the form or lower costs and higher wages. In a sense the BC Liberals where banking on business stepping up to the plate and they simply did not. If you factor in the what ifs - maybes and hope it happens the HST was going to benefit everyone. When you examine what actually happened - it changes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucklehead Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 No - I didn't ask a stupid question. Maybe you should go back and follow the entire conversation. Home reno's did not drop in price for DIY. The "labour" part was already discussed - in other words, there was no need for you to re-hash what was already discussed unless of course you didn't understand what was being discussed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Actually, I just did a quick analysis. I did a 5 minute job of downloading the CPI CANSIM table and compared the CPI in BC to the CPI in the rest of Canada. I pulled data from January 2008 to February 2013. The HST implementation date of July 2010 was the midpoint of the data set. Here are the results: CPI increase in Canada Jan 2008 - Jul 2010 - 4.5% CPI increase in BC Jan 2008 - Jul 2010 - 4.3% CPI increase in Canada Jul 2010 - Feb 2013 - 5.1% CPI increase in BC Jul 2010 - Feb 2013 - 3.2% So before the HST, the increase in the price of your standard basket of goods was 4.3% in 19 months in BC, and this tracked the increase in the rest of Canada, which saw 4.5% increases over the same period. After the HST was implemented, prices rose in BC by 3.2%, compared to 5.1% in the rest of Canada. Now, I can't say for sure based on this that the HST was the cause of prices going down, but we can certainly say that prices did decrease in BC compared to the rest of Canada since the HST was implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I would suggest that alot of the price drops where due to the changes in duty free from cross border shopping. With BC Workers wages being as stagnant and low as they have - businuess needed to what they could to stop the drain of shopping dollars across the border. I am sure some of the small price drops may be atributable to something impacted by the HST - but other factors considered more heavily. I would suggest that prices rose in places like Sask - Manitoba - Alb at a higher rate because workers income grew with the resources based jobs. As wages did not grow in BC the spike in consumer cost increases reflect the wage issue. If prices dropped and wages rose - that would be a real benefit to everyone. When your wages stay the same and prices rise even if smaller than another provinces it is still a drop in standard of living. Not suggesting that there was no price drops, rather that the price drops did not off set the increased costs of the HST and did not drop enough to factor in that wages have really been hit hard in BC. The BC Liberals have been masters of giving us back 50 bucks yet picking the other pocket for 100 and calling it a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Well shoot, how'd Vander Zalm make the horse drink when the provincial Liberals couldn't? Blame the horse, it's a stupid horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I would suggest that alot of the price drops where due to the changes in duty free from cross border shopping. With BC Workers wages being as stagnant and low as they have - businuess needed to what they could to stop the drain of shopping dollars across the border. I am sure some of the small price drops may be atributable to something impacted by the HST - but other factors considered more heavily. I would suggest that prices rose in places like Sask - Manitoba - Alb at a higher rate because workers income grew with the resources based jobs. As wages did not grow in BC the spike in consumer cost increases reflect the wage issue. If prices dropped and wages rose - that would be a real benefit to everyone. When your wages stay the same and prices rise even if smaller than another provinces it is still a drop in standard of living. Not suggesting that there was no price drops, rather that the price drops did not off set the increased costs of the HST and did not drop enough to factor in that wages have really been hit hard in BC. The BC Liberals have been masters of giving us back 50 bucks yet picking the other pocket for 100 and calling it a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Ya, that 2 Billion we have to pay back now wouldnt have helped at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 You're just making crap up now. You can compare BC to BC if you like. Before the HST, prices rose 4.3% in 19 months. After the HST prices rose 3.2% in 19 months. The drops include the cost of the HST as the CPI factors in sales taxes. Yeah, prices dropped despite the "higher" taxes. From the definition of the CPI: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahzdeen Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 why borrow that 2 billion in the first place then? FAIL! It's like me getting a loan for a brand new Lexus Give that 2 billion dollars back. It's not our fault they borrowed the 2 billion in the 1st place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Holy forum spam - wetcoaster could you do us mobile users a favor and put your copy paste mega thread behind a spoiler? Also I could copy paste all my previous comments in regards to the HST but the continued playing of the blame game by the BC Liberal supporters is not adding anything productive to the debate. I will throw the first volley - see if you can follow .... If the NDP get elected I will voice to them my suggestion of returning with a citizen involvement committee for the re interduction of a form of HST that would be better planned and implimented. Done correctly and openly from the get go it will be a benefit for BC. It must above all be revenue neutral in a provable manner from day 1. Any part of budgeted savings from off setting costs or increased wages must be attached to legislation that permits goverment to enforce it ( example - we will reduce a businuess's taxes by 1 million if they prove 1 million in capital re investiment or increased hiring etc - so that tax cuts for businuess come with strings attached ). Previous exemptions must continue or for purchases over 10K be claimable on provincial income tax ( example on window replacement the PST portion now exempt could be claimed by the home owner... 600 bucks isnt much but allowing it to be claimed by the end user would off set the increase ) Done the above way I could support the HST or any other new combined tax. Instead of playing the blame game - what is your positive suggestions moving forward? And simply voting Liberal isn't a solution - nor would be voting NDP - tell us what you would do or prompt the incoming goverment to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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