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Honest analysis of our team

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#1 vcrguy

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

Here's an honest analysis of our team (as I see it, which obviously is up for debate).

Our D isn't playing the best but on paper they're fantastic so I won't comment about them. Our goalies aren't the problem either, so this is just an analysis of our forwards. Let me know what you think:

1st line calibre players:

D. Sedin
H. Sedin

We are 1 player short

2nd line calibre players:

Kesler
Burrows

We are 1 player short

3rd line calibre players:

Booth
Hansen
Higgins
Kassian
Santorelli
Schroeder

Fantastic 3rd line calibre players.

4th line calibre players:

Richardson
Weise

We are 1 player short but due to the abundance of talent on the 3rd line, we are in good shape.

AHL calibre players currently on our team:

Sestito
Welsh

So in reality, we are 1 first line player and 1 second line player short of being a well rounded team. I wish MG would trade some of the 3rd liners or package something together to plug these holes.

What do you think, is this a fair analysis or do you see things differently?
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#2 Drouin

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

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Big Schroeder fan here, but Richardson has played amazing..
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#3 Quoted

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:01 PM

I disagree about the 4th line - they need to build a 4th line with purpose and with the right pieces - not just the left overs from the 3rd line.

Backup goaltending is still a question too - Lack is unproven (but seems to be doing well). Would you still think they are OK at this position if Luongo got hurt and Lack was the starter for 10 games?

One could nit a bit about your forwards but I think your overall conclusion makes sense. Really starting to get worried about Daniel though...
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#4 Silfverberg Snipes

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:02 PM

Fair. But I think we'd get a clearer picture if we started ranking them in terms of positive or negative influence on this team.
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#5 Tom Sestito

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:03 PM

I was part of the trade Higgins or Hansen crew before the season started.

Booth isn't a tradeable asset so he has to stay.

It's got to be Higgins + and then hope kassian can be a first or second line guy.

Role with booth and Hansen on the 3rd line.

I mean if we can get something trading booth+ for a 1st or 2nd liner I'm in but Idk.

Edited by Tom Sestito, 20 October 2013 - 09:05 PM.

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#6 Legend Killer

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:11 PM

Shinkaruk and Horvat will step into that top 6 soon enough. Patience.
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#7 Heretic

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:12 PM

TBH, I don't believe we have the right combination of players...

I'm not going to pretend to be a GM neither - I'm just stating what I observe.

As much as I hate to say it, we're missing a Toews type of player and a consistent scorer.

Overall, we need players to focus 100%. What I mean by that is, we seem to relax after scoring a goal instead of keeping the pressure up...we lost to the Penguins because of that....3 goals we scored and the first shifts after those goals were brutal...1 leading to a goal by the Penguins...

The shots against are down - but that makes our goalie stats skewed the wrong way as far as save percentages...
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#8 Peaches

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

H.Sedin - 1a
D.Sedin - 1a
Kesler - 1b (when playing decent)
Burrows - 2a
Higgins - 2b
Hansen - 3a
Kassian - 3a
Schroeder - 3b
Booth - 3a (when playing better than he is now)
Richardson - 3b
Weise - 4
Sestito - 4b
Welsh - 4b
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#9 ilduce39

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

I agree with the assessment - the question now is are we playing for this season or the future? Reinforcements are coming from within - with at least Shinkaruk looking like he can fill a top-6 role. In the meantime the team learns Tort's system and there's always UFA's available next year.
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#10 TheWheeler

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:14 PM

Kesler needs to go. 3rd year of bringing absolutely nothing to this team. He's supposed to be 100% healthy and he's playing 1st PP with the freaking Sedin's (again).

On pace for 33pts and a -41? Cheechoo 2.0.
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#11 Papayas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:16 PM

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Kesler needs to go. 3rd year of bringing absolutely nothing to this team. He's supposed to be 100% healthy and he's playing 1st PP with the freaking Sedin's (again).

On pace for 33pts and a -41? Cheechoo 2.0.


do me a favor... stop polluting the forum.
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#12 Bananas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

The reason MG does nothing is because he's hoping for the following to fulfil his do-nothing approach and save his sorry arse:

Kesler to play like a 1st liner again (even though it only happened once in his career) so that he can have a balanced offence with him playing him on the 2nd line

Burrows to play like a second liner, but not on the first line where the players that make him as good as a second liner are playing...

Booth to return to second line form and magically form chemistry with Kesler

Kassian to emerge
Schroeder to emerge
Sestito and/or Wiese to actually become good 4th line players


Bieksa to stop sucking off the teet.
Edler to pull his head out of his bungholio
Garrison to become Weber (gettin' there, actually)


Luongo to regain elite form
Lack to become Schnieder


Not to sound too negative. OP, you're pretty spot on. This team is not complete yet, and we all know that. The problem is, GMMG is not going to do anything. If he does anything, he'll just trade our 4th rounder for plugs at the deadli-- wait a second....



In all honesty, this year is not the year, and I can accept that. The only thing that can change that is if over the course of the season, Torts manages to spark some serious change in those players mentioned above.

If this happens, I can see a reason for MG to start making some moves this year. If it continues with this as the par for the course, I would much rather Gillis liquidate some assets to teams who are looking to make the push and get some decent up-and-coming youth in return. Unfortunately, these NTCs get in the way of anything like that...
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#13 Bananas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:39 PM

For my player rankings, a second post for the sake of organizations:

H. Sedin - 1
D. Sedin - 1

Kesler - 2 as a winger; 3 as a center (right now) // potentially 1 as a winger; 1b as a center. However, he's far removed from that.
Burrows - 2 as a winger if the Sedins are making him look good. Realistically, on a deep team, 3. He only scores lots with Sedins.

Booth - 3. Potentially a 2, which is what MG wanted. But he is far removed from that.
Higgins - 3
Hansen - 3
Schroeder - 3. Perhaps potentially a 2, or in the near future. We just don't know yet.

Santorelli - 4, playing like a 3
Kassian - 3, playing like a 4 (except the last few games). Has all the tools for a 2 right now, and even a 1 in the future.

Richardson - 4, playing like a 3

Wiese - AHL
Sestito - AHL
Welsh - AHL, but I haven't seen him yet *shrugs*

- - - - -

This is what the Canucks would look like if they were a real contender:
Sedin - Sedin - ?hole?
?hole? - ?hole? - Kesler < -- we stuck a 3rd line here and called it a second line
Booth - Schroeder? - Burrows
Santorelli - Richardson - Hansen (small but super energy)

(redundant - Higgins and Kassian because of inconsistancy, Weise and Sestito because of useless)
The situation of out forward group is the result of the bad contracts of our D core. Namely, Bieksa and Edler.

- - - - - -

What MG is hoping for:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian -- with Kassian pretending he's Lucic
Booth - Kesler - Burrows -- with Booth and Kesler playing the way the once did
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen -- with Schroeder growing 6 inches and gaining 40 lbs
Wiestito - Richardson - Santorelli -- With Sestito and Weise becoming one player, with high energy and size and throwing checks.

Hamhuis - Bieksa -- with Bieksa playing like its a contract year
Edler - Tanev -- with Tanev after he's devoured the soul of Nick Lidstrom and learned to harness his hockey prowess and sharing it with Edler
Garrison - Stanton -- with Garrison playing like Weber, and Stanton playing like a second Hamhuis.

Young Luongo
Schnieder Lack


You'll notice here that there is no spaces filled by outside players.

Edited by Bananas, 20 October 2013 - 09:45 PM.

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#14 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

Honestly we just need one more skilled, and I mean talented, guy to play with the Sedins. I'm thinking like a Corey Perry, Bobby Ryan type player. A player that can really finish all the chances the Sedins set him up for.

Realistically, the Sedins are so good, the winger that plays with them should get 40 goals easy. Burrows got 35 once, but I think he's better suited to play with Kesler and form out the second line. Only name that's out there right now is Vanek. We maybe also should have made a play for Jeff Carter.
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#15 Jack Fig

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

Middle-of-the-pack team.
Too many undefined roles/players up front. Gillis believes everything will work out fine, as long as everyone finds their previous top form. The problem is, that's never going to happen. Maybe a couple guys will find it, but most won't. After a while, you are what you are. Higgins won't score 20 in a season, and neither will Booth or Hansen. Based on his current play, I'm beginning to have doubts that Dank will either.
When Gillis announced his 'reset', I had no idea it only referred to the coaches. Not one player of significance (apart from Schneider) was moved. Instead he did what he does every summer....fill in spots from the scrap heap and hope for the best. The gradual erosion of real talent continues. Torts may bring a new attitude and outlook, but the Canucks are a veteran team which will not be able to reinvent their game significantly based on the stagnant personnel. And throw in previously-reliable vets (Dank, Hamhuis, Kesler, Lou) playing below their regular form, and you've got problems.
The Canucks will continue to routinely beat lesser teams, but will struggle against upper teams. That will adequately define what they are and where they deserve to be. I thought they would finish 7-10 in the west, and I've seen nothing to change my mind thus far.

Edited by Jack Fig, 20 October 2013 - 09:44 PM.

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#16 Bananas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:42 PM

I agree with the assessment - the question now is are we playing for this season or the future? Reinforcements are coming from within - with at least Shinkaruk looking like he can fill a top-6 role. In the meantime the team learns Tort's system and there's always UFA's available next year.


Cap goes up and some prospects make it. This leaves space for some big signings. I just hope for no NTCs this year.
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#17 TheRussianRocket™

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

Dead on OP.
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#18 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:47 PM

We have played quite well, the team has simply lost talent. Put this effort and system into the team of years past.......
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#19 Bananas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

MG needs to build his team with what these players are, not for what these players have been, or could be.

I'm sick of him waiting for Booth or Kesler to make a come-back, or Schroeder or Kassian to break-out. Or Luongo to play like an elite goaltender. When those things happen, it's a bonus.

I realize that this year had a cap crunch, but there is a serious problem with the way this roster wasn't shaken up a bit in the off-season. Moves could have been made that would have resulted in some serious change. Things like trading Higgins before his stupid, crappy NTC kicked in.

I'm really happy Santorelli and Richardson have turned out well so far. But I'm pretty disturbed that they were the only pick-ups.
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#20 5Fivehole0

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Kesler needs to go. 3rd year of bringing absolutely nothing to this team. He's supposed to be 100% healthy and he's playing 1st PP with the freaking Sedin's (again).

On pace for 33pts and a -41? Cheechoo 2.0.

do me a favor... stop polluting the forum.


Pretty much what papa said -_-

Kesler has been taking almost all our defensive draws and has done a damn good job of it too. He has been pretty consistent thus far for the role Torts has given him.

Edited by 5Fivehole0, 20 October 2013 - 09:55 PM.

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No. The Canucks aren't even in the same realm as these other teams. They aren't even close to being good enough to make the playoffs. They'll be off by around 10 points.


#21 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:00 PM

Santo and Richardson would have been amazing pick ups IF, their success was a bonus to the teams production rather than a major part. Every time we get a depth scorer, we force them into a role and position where they are no longer depth, thus having no depth scoring.

Vicious cycle these past few years.
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#22 Bananas

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:05 PM

Pretty much what papa said -_-

Kesler has been taking almost all our defensive draws and has done a damn good job of it too. He has been pretty consistent thus far for the role Torts has given him.


The problem with our depth is that that's a 3rd line role that Kesler is playing.
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#23 khay

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

Santo and Richardson would have been amazing pick ups IF, their success was a bonus to the teams production rather than a major part. Every time we get a depth scorer, we force them into a role and position where they are no longer depth, thus having no depth scoring.

Vicious cycle these past few years.


Good point. When we brought in Lappy, and Higgins in 2010-2011, those guys were basically going to be the depth players and that's why we were so good. Second line was set with Kesler, Raymond, and Samuelson so those guys really played on the third and fourth lines where whatever they did was bonus rather than main contribution.

Good news is that hopefully starting next year, those guys can go back to being bonus contributors rather than the main contributors. Hopefully as young guys like Jensen, Horvat, Shinkaruk comes in and as Schoreder and Kassian improves their play, guys like Santorelli and Richardson can become the depth that Higgins and Lappy were 2 years ago.
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#24 apollo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

Give Booth, Kassian, J-Shro, and even DALE WEISE time. They will plug those wholes.

Booth, Kass, J-Shro will move into those holes and WEISE will be the ultimate hardest working player in the NHL. WEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIISEEEEEEEEEBABYYYYYY
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#25 singing chef

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:11 PM

Perhaps we should try playing a north-south type of game instead of playing pretty passes round and round the net. Also, try shooting the puck, with the caveat that the shooter shoot try to at least hit the net.
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#26 Pistachios

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:13 PM

At this point in time that's a fair assessement. STill a long season so hopefully players can start stepping up their play.
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#27 cabinessence

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:14 PM

Middle-of-the-pack team.
Too many undefined roles/players up front. Gillis believes everything will work out fine, as long as everyone finds their previous top form. The problem is, that's never going to happen. Maybe a couple guys will find it, but most won't. After a while, you are what you are. Higgins won't score 20 in a season, and neither will Booth or Hansen. Based on his current play, I'm beginning to have doubts that Dank will either.
When Gillis announced his 'reset', I had no idea it only referred to the coaches. Not one player of significance (apart from Schneider) was moved. Instead he did what he does every summer....fill in spots from the scrap heap and hope for the best. The gradual erosion of real talent continues. Torts may bring a new attitude and outlook, but the Canucks are a veteran team which will not be able to reinvent their game significantly based on the stagnant personnel. And throw in previously-reliable vets (Dank, Hamhuis, Kesler, Lou) playing below their regular form, and you've got problems.
The Canucks will continue to routinely beat lesser teams, but will struggle against upper teams. That will adequately define what they are and where they deserve to be. I thought they would finish 7-10 in the west, and I've seen nothing to change my mind thus far.

One of the most bang on posts I've read here.
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#28 Kesheniel

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:15 PM

This thread is like a who's who of trolls and who can be more negative circle jerk
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#29 oldnews

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:25 PM

H.Sedin - 1a
D.Sedin - 1a
Kesler - 1b (when playing decent)
Burrows - 2a
Higgins - 2b
Hansen - 3a
Kassian - 3a
Schroeder - 3b
Booth - 3a (when playing better than he is now)
Richardson - 3b
Weise - 4
Sestito - 4b
Welsh - 4b


more accurate than the OP imo - I see Burrows as A1 regardless simply because he is the team's WD40 who excels anywhere, and makes the whole lineup better - but regardless I think it's an upgrade on '1 player short'.

I have no problem with the fact that there is one top 6 spot that hasn't been locked down by anyone - imo there is nothing wrong with having a handful of players competing to step up - and no shortage of potential among them, particularly when the youth gain a little experience.
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#30 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:26 PM

We could use another top six and a top four.

Fire Gillis? That might help with that.
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