CaptainLinden16

Would Demko/Markstrom, Boeser and 10th work for Dahlin from your Sabers perspective?

Is Demko, Boeser and the 10th for Dahlin even remotely possible? I would do it. I am not sure the Sabers would.

All the talk of overvaluation makes sense, but anyone who has actually watched Skinner play for an extended period of time would come away with WOW this guy is absolutely electric. He has Patrick Kane hands and McDavid wheels. He just isn't a every play, every game, every season kind of guy. I think that if you partner him with the right center and put him in offensive situations his game will keep on improving. Carolina was just too defensive of a team. It really is no surprise that his offensive numbers have improved playing with Eichel. Skinner and Petterson would have been absolutely dynamic. 8 year deal is insane. I don't even mind the 9 million, but 8 years for anyone is crazy. I would've done 10M for 3 years as Buffalo has the cap space, but definitely not 8 or even 6 (5 absolute max).

You can see the speed, agility, pucks skills like you mentioned. But you made my point for me, he is going to cost something better spent elsewhere in terms of trade and contract. He may just be a regular season phenom. A lot of these types of players are.

Maybe its an exaggeration, but I really don't like the idea of tying up 7M for 6 years for Nylander. Its not like you have to take on Nylander, and the question is whether or not thats a fair deal. I don't want to expend anything to acquire him because their is a salary cap and that money would be better spent elsewhere.

If I had 7M to spend for 6 years, it 100% wouldn't be on Nylander. End of story...

The whole tournament is very questionable for talent evaluation and performance. France, Great Britain, Italy, Latvia, Austria, Germany, and even Slovakia couldn't even field an AHL team. Who cares that someone plays well at the Worlds? The only games that even remotely matter are Canada, USA, Russia, Finland and Sweden. Even the Czech's are really poor now in terms of quality of roster. That's 4 games that matter. Really hard to judge anyone on 4 games. Not to mention the different ice surface, referees and style of play. I remember Tanev had a great worlds and Babcock was the coach. Everyone thought he was worth at least 2 - 1st round picks after that. Ben Hutton has player in this tournament for Canada and Troy Stecher! No offense to either but they are maybe 50th on the depth chart for Canada for the Olympics. Its not apples to apples. Its like apples to licorice. They are both sweet sort of? It only further solidify's the argument that Nylander plays well when there is no pressure and lower quality opposition. These types of players ruin teams. They suck up cap space that could be used on more useful players. I am more than certain that Jake Virtanen by himself is and will be a more effective player in the playoffs at a fraction of the price. The bar is incredibly low, so I am not being a homer here.

Louie Eriksson had a great worlds too. Nylander is a good regular season player on a stacked team offensively. Its not about him individually even. His cap hit is monstrous for what he brings. If I were the GM of the Canucks, I would 100% rather spend that money on either a RHD or big bodied winger to play with Petterson. He may not even be better than Sven Baertschi. I would love to see what he could do on the leafs team. I am 100% certain if healthy he would get 50 points or maybe even 60 just like Nylander. I don't see it at all.

3 goals in 20 playoff games taking up 7M in cap for the next 5 years, Nylander? That Nylander is the centerpiece of this trade? I would easily rather sign Anders Lee for 7M and keep Tanev and Virtanen and not take on those 3 bad contracts.

Nylander is a playoff ghost and is on a very large long term deal. To me this looks like three camp dumps for Tanev and Virtanen. I am left with asking what are the Canucks getting? Zaitsev top 4 and Nylander playoff top 12? very curious as to what the Canucks are getting in this deal?

No thank you.

I am sure they would. He averages a block, a hit and a shot and a half per game. He just ins't very involved. He reminds me an awful lot of Ben Hutton. I am not sure I want to give up the best trade chip the team has for Ben Hutton. I would consider Rasmus Andersson, Sam Bennett, James Neal and 26th for 10th, Sutter and Eriksson. Not the best possible deal but it moves the team forward. RD is a position of need and Rasmus is ready to play. Sam Bennett has good upside left in him and is already an everyday player. Neal for Eriksson swap essentially. It sucks to give up the 10th overall but you get rid of two contracts, add two young players with upside, retain a pick which you can use on a defenseman and lastly Neal may find a fit with Petterson. I mean he is only 31. If you have to balance it out then 3rd pick, Goldobin, Schaller, whatever can be added; but the value should be fairly close.

I would also take Shea Theodore, Any of Phillys top 3 (Provorov, Sanheim, Ghostiberre), Sergachev. Kyle Connor is big one too, but you would have to add. Its a great pick, but if you can get a young player with potential 20-24 years old and producing in the league. You take that and run. Especially because you can pick the position this way RD or RW. I get that most of these are actually LW and LD hahahaha; but they are substantial young players. I would consider Alex Tuch, Colin Miller and 17th overall for 10th overall, 2nd rd pick and 3rd pick. I really like Tuch and I would prefer drafting a defenseman. At 17 one of Broberg, Seider or Soderstrom will be available.

Jakub Vrana, Rasmus Ristolanien, Roope Hintz, Brett Pesce, Ryan Pulock, I would also do Kapanen/Johansen/2nd rd pick this year and next for 10th, Sutter at 50% and Tanev at 50%

You are confusing incidence with probability. Just because there has been good players drafted in the 3rd round doesn't mean its likely. Just because you can win Black Jack with 13 doesn't mean its likely. You can always sign middling players in free agency. You can always trade for middling players easily. You can always develop middling players. The reason why the 8th or 10th or 1st round pick is worth more is that it gives you a significantly larger probability of getting a high end talent. You cannot easily obtain high end talent through free agency or trade. It's simply a numbers thing. The math is heavily against you drafting 10 times in the 3rd round even if you give Benning a higher than average probability of success. Then when you get into contract slots, play time and development opportunities for 10 bodies versus 1 then it really becomes challenging... You just have to think of it structurally there are maybe 500 scouts worldwide that look at these players constantly. Nowadays there is film on every player who is draft eligible. If a player is past up twice by 31 teams then the likelihood of that player having star potential is really quite low. People can grow, mature and get better; but there are only about 5 difference makers every draft. Maybe even less... The most valuable thing in hockey is the 1st overall. There is nothing like it to obtain a true high end talent even if there are some busts. 1-10 also give you a true shot at a star. The exponential scale actually relates to the 1st round as well. picks 20-30 have a significantly lower probability than a top 10 pick. 29+30 is definitely a worse mathematically than 11. GMs have very few chips that can genuinely change a roster. A top 10 pick is a HUGE difference maker. It really can't be overstated. A lot of fans have unrealistic expectations of what a GM can accomplish picking 22nd. That being said, there is no sane GM that didn't make the playoffs who would trade an 8th overall pick for anything other than a top 7 pick or a 22 year old player already producing. Panarin is 0.000000000% likely to want to go to the frozen wasteland of Edmonton. No amount of capspace is going to make that happen. Trading an 8th overall pick to get rid of Lucic then go out and sign another Lucic makes no sense.

how about Baertschi+10 for Hintz+15?

I would easily do Goldobin + 10 for Vrana +25 (Vrana reminds me a lot of Naslund) 10 + Baertschi for 18 + Hintz (this guy has an unbelievable shot and does a lot well otherwise unlike Laine) 10 + 2nd or Gaudette for Poehling + 15 (a force of a hockey player) Hutton + 3rd for Kempe (this one is hard to value as he is more of a middle six guy who will be a playoff beast) 2nd + 3rd for Gavrikov (skates very well, has size, great handling the puck) All plausible trades.

2017 is kind of a funny one. I think all 3 are bustish right now. Definitely and easily Laine. He can do things that almost no one else in the NHL can with his shot except Ovechkin. Thats super easy especially consdier Alex Nylander has done nothing and Jost was a ghost in the playoffs. The Eichel one is the toughest but I think I still take Eichel. I take Reinhardt over Nylander and Ritchie. Ritchie has been poor and Nylader is invisible in the playoffs on a bad contract. I really like Boqvist, so I am tempted to say Bouchard and Boqvist; but this one needs a couple more years to say who won out definitively. I do think I would take the 2 over 8 and 10. Game 7 2 minutes left down by one I want the best player on the ice to be on my team. There is only one puck. I want Laine/Eichel shooting that puck.

I was just trying to spit ball off of the initial proposal. Baertschi and Goldobin for Hintz? I dunno what his value is to them, but I would trade a lot more than that for him.

I have been harping on this for years on this board! The NHL draft is a complete crap shoot. I would trade my draft picks almost every year unless I really wanted someone or had a top 3 pick. Roope Hintz, Ryan Poehling, Adrian Kempe, Vladislav Gavrikov, Jakub Vrana None of them are untouchables. You dont have to give up Elias, Boeser or Horvat for them; but you take a shot on one of these guys being a star. You know 100% that they are NHL quality. Not a crap shoot like the draft. 100% each would be available for a 10th or even something less. I would go for trades like that all day. Benning to a certain extent has. Thats what Baertschi was in his eyes.

The NFL and NHL Are completely different. 18 year old versus 21 year old. A sport that is predominantly physical versus a sport that is predominantly technical. Add in the continuous non-scripted nature and you get a much more cerebral requirement from all NHL participants versus pre-designed execution of most NFL outside of QB and maybe MLB/FS. in the NFL 5th round picks regularly play in their rookie year. In the NHL look it up. This happens once every 3 years. You trade down in the NFL to upgrade position with players who can play now who are as developed as they are going to get. In the NHL you don't because at 17 years old you know almost nothing about these players. They all significantly change between year 1 and 5.

You make good points but you only think in prism where all of these teams have to trade with Canucks. Tanev is not the only defensive defensmen that Dallas could go after. Maybe Stralman in a cap strapped TB team would be more appealing to them. Or insert other player here__. In order to trade a 1st round pick they would have to really WANT Tanev. If that WANT was there then there would be some smoke coming out about something like this. I haven't heard a Tanev rumor in ages. As a GM, I personally would almost never ever trade down. The success probability chart is exponential not linear. Each position is worth significantly more than the one above it based on career success probability. These types of trades are very infrequent in the first round, so I am fairly certain most GMs are of the same opinion. If you have Hutton and Baertschi both worth a 3rd round pick then how on Earth does that equal a 1st round pick. If you traded me 10 - 3rd round picks, I would still keep my 1st and say no thank you. Moving Lucic will not require the 8th overall. I am very confident of that. Maybe he only wants to come here and maybe thats all you would be willing to take for him, but there is noway Edmonton does that. They dont need to win now and they dont have the roster for it. There is no reason to sacrifice such a significant piece for cap flexibility. You take on a 4M per year bad contract or 3M plus a 2nd rd pick from some other team and throw in a B prospect and someone will find that enticing. I completely don't agree on trading a 1st and a 2nd to get rid of Eriksson. Why? Free agents are very rarely worth the money. UFA = over valued contract because of the supply and demand dynamics. Every GM wants a "free" player. 1st round picks not at the trade deadline get typically traded for a marquee player in a package. I don't remember the last time a GM traded a 1st round pick for spare parts on June 1st.

I would trade Gaudette (French name!) for him straight up too in a heartbeat. Poehlling is gritty, fast and has intensity while having very good offensive skills.

Thats where Benning also thinks the defenders have value in this draft mid to late. So Broberg/Seider and Phoeling for 10th and 2nd rd pick. That would be sweet.

This is the only trade down scenario I would do in a heartbeat. Add a 2nd or 3rd or whatever evens it out.