wai_lai416

ya i'm not blaming him. he's been ok/decent but nothing spectacular. you'd think one of our goalie would stand on their head and absolutely steal u a game here and there after almost 30 games. there's been a couple games martin was good giving up 1 goal only i think but i don't recall it was him standing on his head that stole the game. i think neither goalie have absolutely stolen a game this year and it's mostly the offence rescuing the game along with some timely saves

martin's been good but damn the guy can't win a game without the team scoring 4+ goals lol

wasn't it he turned down 7x7? coz they said it's just below 50mil.. 8x6.125 doesn't make sense.. so 7x7? which prolly woulda been a last summer deal but prolly not now.

if we can get lysell a 1st and carlo for 50% horvat they can have schenn too i'm down but i dunno if they'll include lysell in any trade tbh and i hope the center piece around a boston trade isn't carlo because by the time we are ready i reckon carlo will be 30 so nearing a end of prime player. and i also don't honestly see boston going for horvat.. reason being he doesn't really fit their team this year.. next year for sure but right now he's not going to play on the wing. don't think he's playing ahead of bergeron and don't see him playing with pastrnak as he needs krejci for setup and horvat doesn't exactly set anyone up.. nor is there a spot for him on pp1 so i dont think boston is in play for horvat.. but that's just my thinking

oops didn't know u were waiting for a reply lol Miller played center primarily up until this year, but the player that was task with the defensive burden was EP and Pearson in previous years. if u watch it's mostly EP and Pearson that was the 1st forward back. as for faceoff what i'm saying is because bo is mostly matched up in the defensive zone so he's usually doing faceoff mostly against the other teams top 2 forward line. and most likely their better faceoff centers. so Miller would have easier competition.. like example horvat would get a lot of draws against bergeron and krecji in the defensive zone.. and miller would get a lot more the 3/4th line center and the occasional bergeron in the offensive zone. i think it's also a good thing because EP and Miller have a much better chance at winning the draw in the offensive zone against less skilled centerman. isn't this only miller's 4th year not 5? i completely agree with you Miller's last 3 years body of work is much more impressive. but you also have to factor in the age difference they both set career highs at the age of 26. horvat set career highs in goals, miller set career highs in points. prior to age 26 i have to say bo was far more consistent and impressive. Miller started to uptick at the age of 26. Horvat also started to uptick at the age of 26. so i don't think it's fair to say well Miller last 4 years is more impressive than Horvat's last 4 years. i would say their stats at the same age really is a wash.. main difference being 1 is put in more offensive situation the other more in a defensive situation so i'd say horvat's stats to me anyways is far more impressive because he's doing it while being a matchup player where miller is doing it as a 1s liner with slightly better players and way more offensive situation. tbh i won't know who's going to be better.. at 30 32 etc etc. what i'm saying though is let's just assume their growth and decline is parallel. having horvat still here when he's 30 and we are ready to compete would be better than having a miller here at 32. but regardless if horvat is moved so be it, but i'm also prepared for disappointments and we end up getting fleeced in a trade. it's the canucks way. my point was Horvat fits this teams timeline much better than Miller if they are planning on a retool. Miller at 26 is slightly better than horvat at 26 but Horvat at 27 is better than Miller at 27 and who knows when horvat hits 28 maybe the team that signs horvat will give him the opportunity to be a 1c like Miller was given the oppportunity with the canucks and he becomes a 40 goal 40 assist guy. or maybe even a 45-50 goal guy 20 assist guy who knows. in an ideal world we keep both never made the OEL trade. ate the last year of rousell le and i forgot the 4th liners name.. then we waponize our cap space this off season or use a 1st that we wasted in the OEL trade to dump myers if needed.. we'd be swimming in cap space and not even worried about the boeser cap hit.

i enjoy going back and froth with EP coz he have some great points that i may or may not agree with but nonetheless it's great points that could go either way. at least our convo is civil unlike some that'll go into name calling bashing hahahaha. i love great sensible arguments. i mean what else is there to do until the canucks actually do something XD and if the canucks do move on from bo i ain't going to cry about it. but i prefer them to get on with an actual rebuild rather than trying to do another retool that most likely wouldn't have us as a contender and we go even further back into a rebuild

we replace horvat with Miller? we already tried Miller at center this year.. he was an utter disaster.. and he still is a disaster defensively. Miller is not capable of playing center unless you put him with defensive forwards like pearson that'll do the job for him. and even then it was terrible. Miller isn't bure or linden either? and you act like he's irreplaceable. he's already proven last year was a fluke when his assist is well above his career average. and you act like Bo is already peaked and will decline for sure. last year Bo had a career year in goals.. the age coincided with Miller's 1st year with the canucks.. bo continued to have an uptick in goals.. 60 goals is probably unrealistic.. but who to say he won't be a 40-45 goal scorer in the right situation consistently for the next couple years? i find it funny you guys keep bashing horvat and pegging him as a 3c.. if he can consistently put up 40 goals for the next 3-5 years? i'll gladly pay him the 8mil for everything else he brings.. Miller's faceoff % is also helped by the fact he gets the easier faceoff matchup.. how often is he matched up against the 3rd/4th line for draw? very often meanwhile horvat gets the top line to faceoff against. again you keep saying 3c is not hard to get.. getting a 3c that works with your team is hard to get.. we tried that with dickinson.. he was horrible here and looks great with chicago.. if 3c is so easily available why are there teams looking for 3c year after year that fits with their team? Miller is not a legit center.. he never is never was never will be.. Center's job is not only faceoff.. center have the defensive responsibility on the line.. they are usually the 1st forward back in the D zone.. when was the last time you saw Miller as the first forward back? i don't think i've seen it more than a handful of times in his entire career in vancouver. Bo is not the greatest defensive center in the league far from it.. but at least he's capable of winning the draw from top lines of other teams to limit possession. so you think by getting rid of Bo and keeping miller.. the canucks are competing all of a sudden? getting rid of bo or miller the canucks ain't competing for 3-4 years.. i take a 30 year old horvat over a 32 year old miller any day of the week.. especially back in the summer when he could have been had at prolly 7mil.

lol lots of guy knows how to faceoff.. how many are good at it? bottom feeders? i'm talking about replacing miller with a mid level player.. that can get u 60-70 points.. the rest of the lineup can't cover 20-30 points? we know your obsession with Miller.. you were arguing with me all summer how Miller is the best defensive forward on the team when i said he's the worse and EP is the best all summer just because miller have Selke votes. those selke votes sure looks good right now.. ya malhotra is a dime a dozen.. you can find a top faceoff guy in this league that can play in your top 2 line scores 30+ goals.. i'll take any player that scores 60-70 points a season and only gives up 60-70 goals against vs a player that scores 99 points but gives up 120+ goals against.. he's top 10 in points he's also top 10 in goals against for forward and and top 4 in high danger chance against. top 50 high danger chance against overall.. and out of the top 100 90 of them are like defenceman... if faceoff guys are easily replaceable.. so why haven't we had a legit 3c capable of playing matchup and taking faceoff since forever?

ya i think too much focus last season is who's gonna replace miller's point etc etc etc.. i mean look at it this way.. the player you bring in is going to replace a good portion of it let's just say 60-70 points in a top line setting.. that just leaves the rest of the team 11 other forwards to chip in with like 3 extra points per person.. not that unreasonable.. meanwhile faceoff.. bo is on pace for 1700-1800 faceoff a season.. let say u replace it with a 1000 faceoff guy.. ok.. so where does the other 700-800 go? the other center? so that means putting out say EP in more defensive draws when we want him in the offensive zone more? or starting the 4th line center more than what we want him to start? having bo reliably out there for all situational faceoff have a cascading effect on the rest of the lines

the problem is the team needs a shake up for sure.. but bo is not the guy u want to trade for this shake up.. he's too valuable to the team and too hard to replace. .trading bo and getting a new captain won't turn this team into a contender... i've said it all summer trading miller allows us to retool.. trading bo will force us to rebuild i still stand by that.. as it's far easier to replace 99 points than it is to replace one of the top faceoff centerman in the league.. heck kuz is pretty much already replacing miller's production from last season.

Honestly the closer it gets to the TDL the higher bo will cost if they Canucks have intention of signing him. Unless he’s going to be in a 20 game goal drought all of a sudden..

Then I don’t see why they ain’t willing to offer the 8th year considering he’s like 2 years younger than miller. And the cap likely be over 100mil in 8 years

I’m going to bet 90% chance ep will be traded before July 1st next season when the Canucks can’t get him willing to sign a long term contract. There’s almost 0 chance the Canucks are a playoff team next season and very unlikely EP will be willing to sign his life away in Vancouver especially watching how this management have handled negotiation and treatment of players coaches so far

Lol.. shows the management have 0 interest in re-signing bo if that’s true. Even at 50 mil.. that’s 6.25 x 8 lmao.. that’s barely more than what he makes now.. I think it’s embarrassing if this is how they value and negotiated with Horvat… it’s like wasting everyone’s time and doing it just for the pr.

lol we are still looking at a recipe for disaster.. Miller playing center again?? no one good enough to take faceoff consistently on the top 2 lines.. always starting without the puck.. if we are trading horvat.. i want a full rebuild and futures... carlo is nice.. but i don't see him fitting in the timeline.. he's 26 now.. the canucks are prolly 3-4 years away and we saw how quickly defenceman can decline when they approach 30.. i have no interest in trading horvat to boston when they main piece coming back will be at close to the end of his prime as a defenceman by the time this team maybe competitive.. if we are trading horvat.. the center piece coming back needs to be in the 22-24 range carlo imo don't fit the timeline.

lol ship sailed long ago on the NYR the moment they signed trocheck they are out.. they have no cap space to re-sign horvat at his asking price.. and they still wouldn't give u schneider or horvat. they need all the cheap elc they can keep

lol JR and PA blew this one big time.. i'm pretty sure around 7 over 8 would have gotten the job done in the summer.. but nah they wanted to be smartass and starts the negotiation at 5.1 coz he's definitely worth almost 40% less than miller lol

weee teams in the west keeps losing giving canucks false hope to not sell yayyyy

then they have no reason to trade away any assets or future.. unless they can negotiate a horvat contract prior.. and like i said i honestly see 0 reasons why horvat would agree to a contract negotiation to any team and not wait for the bidding war that'll happen during free agency.. if he have a monster playoff.. his value will go up even more.. he doesn't owe it to the canucks to be willing to negotiate a contract prior to maximize his return. horvat doesn't fit them this year.. and there's no point of adding a player that doesnt' fit this year while disrupting what's working for them currently.. their plan is to win it this year.. i don't think they are caring about next year and beyond right now.

miller would fit their need more so this year horvat prolly fits their need more so when bergeron retires..

i've said it before boston have absolutely 0 need for horvat this year. he ain't playing wing and he aint playing PP1 mins nor will he be playing on their top 2 line.. why? bergeron is a given on their top line.. Krejci>>horvat in playmaking ability and krejci plays with Pastrnak.. so don't see horvat playing with pastrnak as there'd be no one to give pastrnak the puck.. and then who's horvat playing with on the 3rd line?? you take a guy that's on pace for 50-60 goals to play on ur 3rd line with nobody? Hall prolly moves up to replace debrusk.. so unless they plan on horvat playing on the wing.. he's a terrible fit for boston.

Maybe but I serious doubt JR would be here to be the owners pet.

lol there is no accountability with this management group.. 1 year on the job.. haven't done anything to fix any of the issues.. continously lobbing bombs and throwing the coach under the bus every possible chance he gets.. as if saying the team is good enough coaching is the reason why they suck. throwing picks away.. prolly asking unrealistic demands for any trades. messing up on contract negotiation etc etc.. only thing the management have done right is getting kuz for free and signing mikhayev whom i was skeptical of but it worked out great for EP. everything else he have done have been a fail and they seem to take 0 responsibility for doing nothing about it

lol you are not convincing EP to stay thru a rebuild doesn't matter how you spin it

lol this starting to look like 1 of the worse trade in franchise history now.. trading a 1st 2nd and a 7th and 1 year of cap dump for 6 years of cap anchor and a undersized 3rd line winger