DSVII

Hogs and Pods are on their way there. The team is finally using the farm team as a development tool rather than an afterthought.

I wouldn't buy out OEL. We're basically locking in a lot of dead cap when we want to compete with Petey and hughes. I'm hoping/banking on recovery + reduced minutes. He doesn't have to be a game breaker. Just middle pair defense with shelter minutes.

If you showed this pic to a guy who woke from a 10 year coma he'd still ask what year is it?

He sealed his fate with the Tavares contract IMO. It's a bunch of great moves constructing around that 40 Mil core but he couldn't overcome that transaction.

O'Reilly / Lundell

Even if we gloss over Benning's worst crippling franchise mistake (you shouldn't because it represents a $13 Mil swing in Cap constraints and can affect us till 2030 if we buy OEL out), this is such a weird arbitrary low bar. Myer's isn't a max contract, but his $6 x 5 represents a massive boat anchor during the most important parts of this core's prime. You'd be hard pressed to find a GM that has lost as much assets and value to a franchise as Benning in his span of time. Timing is also the issue. Cap Crunch isn't just what the number is today on the spreadsheet, it's cap crunch in important points in time that force you into future inefficiencies. I'll use a micro example. Remember that Petey wanted a long term deal two years ago, but Benning prioritized giving Poolman a contract first in July? Then left Hughes and Petey hanging? By spending $2.5 mil in 2021 on Tucker Poolman (10 mil) when he should have settled Petey first, he's all but guaranteed Petey's contract is going to be an extra $2-3 mil more in Cap for the next eight years (~16-24 mil). Imagine Petey on an 8 x $8.5mil. Unrelated to JB, but I have the same concerns with Hronek's next contract. You have to be nimble when operating in a cap world and our team simply hasn't had that ability since we fired Gilman.

I'm hoping we can trade Beauvillier as he seems to be an easier contract to move. Another possibility is if no one is available at 11 we like, we package a contract and our 11th pick and trade down at the draft to a lower 1st rounder.

How many GMs reach Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals? You get there doing more right than wrong. I'm not saying Gillis was perfect, yes the scouting needed a revamp and his later trades sucked (derek roy and sami pahlsson come to mind) but his mandate was to get back to the finals. If anything he was too conservative. We had no business holding onto our 1st rounder in 2011 if we were going all in. As for drafting, even Milbury drafted Luongo and Chara. Drafting is not the end all be all of evaluating a GM. You can check the receipts, I've never said Gillis had the better draft record, but with the capital he had, he got some decent players. You can't deny Benning has the superior advantage of draft capital and position. To the point any of us with a hockey magazine can walk away with more nhl playerd than Gillis. That is the nuance i factor into that evaluation. I'm not giving a guy too much crap when Benning had the equivalent of a training wheel handicap picking in the top 5 or 10 for five of his eight drafts (2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019) while Gillis picked in the 10th spot just twice (2008,2013). What is dishonest, is trying to somehow blame Benning's ineptitude at managing the cap on Gillis. And absolving Benning of the responsibility of running this team into the ground. What is dishonest, is claiming that the team Gillis inherited was a set and forget Cup contender, considering they missed playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons before Gillis took the job and people openly questioned the Sedins. Gillis was a rookie GM who made some good moves, and bad moves, but to call him the worst GM in Canucks history after seeing the last eight years on display is revisionist at best and dishonest at worst. Anyways, back to talking about the 11th pick.

I was paying attention man. Were you? Name the 13 NTCs Gillis left behind you keep spouting Haha how magnanimous. That must feel good eh? You really don't have any authority or judgment really to give anyone a chance. So don't talk like you need to be impressed dude. At the end of the day, we're all the same random idiots ;). I'll partially play your game though for fun. That 'broken' roster was still a 100 point team. You saw Benning trade away an NTC in Jason Garrison. I would have bottomed out, rebuilt and have the Sedins mentor the next generation. I would have targeted Shea Theodore and the 10th with Kesler (which Anaheim was wiling to do seeing as they exposed Theodore later). Accept the fact that the team would have a down year. you'd be surprised how many NTCs would waive if you tell them you're rebuilding. A short retool where you horde your picks would have worked too, move out older vets like Hansen/Higgins/Burrows and retool. Actually draft Willie Nylander with the 6th overall in 2014 and keep Jared McCann. Be patient with developing and drafting D rather than trading for reclaimation projects. That's the thing about Benning, you can beat his record by just standing pat and not trade away draft picks or sign UFAs. I wanted Tkachuk in 2016 plus Alex Debrincat in the 2nd round in 2016. I would not have done the Gudbranson trade and rebuild a line with McCann and Debrincat. I wanted Nicholas Hague over Kole Lind in 2017, so there's another D man right there. Keep Forsling, don't sign Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, Gagner. I would actually let our prospects marinate in the AHL first like Hogs, Virtanen, McCann. And see Utica/Abbottsford as an organization tool to instill good habits and basics in our prospects, not as a window dressing afterthought to be filled with AHL lifers and vets. Benning never used the farm team as a tool to set his prospects up for success. McCann Hogs Jake I would retain and promote Brackett and listen to all his recomendations, along with Gradin's collaboration. And not force people out because I needed to be the smartest guy int he room. I would also not hire Rick Celebrini, and retain Mike Burnstein as our head athletic trainer. I'm fairly certain he was the reason why Chris Tanev's career took a nose dive in injuries. Man games lost in $Cap Chris Tanev's man games played during Celebrini's time As for Lu contract, the Luongo recapture was retro-active. Gillis obeyed the rules of the CBA, I can't fault him for having the league go back in time to punish him for a rule that didn't exist at the time. Secondly, The penalty was only applied because Benning refused to trade for Luongo's contract back to LTIRetire him. So really he bears some responsibility for this as well. https://canucksarmy.com/news/report-canucks-rejected-opportunity-reacquire-roberto-luongo-ltir-purposes-panthers-before-retired-2019 Anyways that's my last word on this. Won't derail the thread.

Benning had no concept of draft capital or cap space. This team today and for the next five to seven years is going to live with the consequences of his undisciplined spending and short term thinking. You can see the principle of why Gillis made the Ballard trade, it just didn't work out. It happens. It makes more sense than Benning trying to chase an overpaid offensive LD when you have a stay at home shutdown RHD waiting and willing to sign in the offseason you 'ran out of time' in. We've been over the draft position and % probability. I'm not giving Gillis too much flack for missing a pick in a spot that had a 5% chance of hitting considering Benning flubbed multiple times with picks that are proven to be 90%+ hit rates for NHL players in the top 10. Not to mention he got way more attempts to hit on those players in the top 10 part of the draft. It's apples and oranges. Luongo netted us Markstrom, and plus pieces like Tanev and Edler kept Benning's illusion of being able to put together an NHL roster afloat until 2020 when the bottom fell out. Benning's time here is to GMs what SVB is to banks. Winning GMs right now are copying a lot of what Gillis used to put together that 2011 team. Benning is going to be a case study of what not to do.

And we've been over this way too much, but we'll keep going over it. That core was not a set and forget cup final roster, Gillis had to bring in depth to augment it for that cup run (higgins, malholtra, ehrhoff, lapierre). There's literally no way you can blame him for leaving barren prospect pool that he never had a chance to rebuild. There's also this eight year elephant of a gap missing in your history there when going over the ineptitude of Canucks Management in recent history and systematically destroying this team's value in the roster and the draft. You want to talk massive damage, let's wait until we find out how much it'll cost to undo Benning's OEL trade. Dickinson cost us a 2nd, and that frankly the talks about how much it'll cost to even just move Garland scare me. As for qualified GMs, you can thank our control freak of an owner for that. He's hired rookies since Nonis because he wants to play Jerry Jones with his toy.

Nah man I'm here for better or worse. Unless it's revealed the Canucks covered up a rape. Then I'll flounce

You upped the font size. Op takes the L

Knowing Aqua this will be a massive overcorrection the other way and he forces stars to leave the second they hit UFA to get more lotto pics. Then his transformation to Melnyk is complete

My vote in this world is Nate Danielson. Right handed 2 way centreman is a bigger need than offensive RHD with Sandin Pellikka and similarly ranked. https://thehockeywriters.com/nate-danielson-2023-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/ Comparable is Yanni Gourde. Fits exactly with our hole at 3C

I admittedly don't know much about Hronek outside of fantasy hockey but the reasons I always picked him was because of opportunity. No one else was there to run the PP or play the heavy minutes in Detroit during those years. We speak alot about how the Canucks cleverly manipulated Hodgson's deployment to inflate his production and value, and my fear is that Hronek will turn out to simply just be average because of that same effect in Detroit. Plus the fact that we are buying high and at the very best case scenario, market value.

Not that I'm disagreeing but I'm curious what the Seattle model is? Fold the franchise and re-enter to trigger a new expansion draft?

Undersized offensive D who can potentially be a powerplay quarterback. If it's Pellika I'd consider trading down a few spots he's not top 10 talent and this would be a purely positional pick for a type of defensemen we already have. See if we can recoup a 2nd. He's like Soderstrom on Arizona. May be years away from the NHL. This is a forward heavy draft. I think in the 11 range our best bet is a winger or hope one of the centres in the top 10 falls. Like Benson or Danielson.

In the salary cap era, teams that have won cups have made it a point to accumulate draft capital during their rebuild phases. The Canucks are one of the few teams that refuse to do so. I feel like draft capital is vastly underestimated by this community as a tool for sustainable success and consistent winning in a tight cap world.

Didn't some of our fans threaten Mike Mathesons dog or something after the Petey injury?

It'll be "but Petey and Hughes" in the next decade

The thing that gnaws at me is that when we needed lotto luck most, when we were truly a tank worthy team (2016-2018), they kept the oiler rules where the top 3 positions were droppable and everyone who missed the playoffs is in on it. The second Canucks come out of that cycle of our 'rebuild' (i'll still maintain it wasn't one), the rules are changed to benefit the bottom tiers more. TLDR: f**k Bettman. f**k Daly.

Think the rule is you can't win more than twice?

So this is the wildly emotional/irrational/pissed off side of me speaking that probably shouldn't be. Anyone on board for offersheeting Chicago the moment Bedard hits RFA to competely f**k up their cap structure? Since we don't give a shit about draft capital anyway, and we will 'never' win the lotto. Four 1sts seems a cheap price to pay for our homeboy and a shot at generational talent, or forcing Chicago to match and put them in cap hell.