***The UFC/MMA THREAD***

[Raoul Duke]

Most UFC fans are clueless about MMA. That isn't a generality. That is just the way it is. You don't like it. That's too bad. Which are you? Are you a fan of UFC or are you a fan of MMA. I'm a fan of MMA which means I watch all sorts of mma. I don't follow the name of the promotion as much as I follow mma in general. I am not the king of MMA knowledge. But I do have something to offer. You may not agree or even appreciate it. There are very few posters in this thread who's opinions I care about. But at least some of them try and add something. Which are you here?

I'm a fan of both. Are you okay?? You need a hug?

[Electro Rock]

I'm far from an MMA expert but from what I can tell the overall talent level in the UFC is lower than any other form of professional fighting, period. Most of these guys are more like souped up bouncers than the highly trained athletes they're billed as.

[Gretzky's Mullet]

Most UFC fans are clueless about MMA. That isn't a generality. That is just the way it is. You don't like it. That's too bad. Which are you? Are you a fan of UFC or are you a fan of MMA. I'm a fan of MMA which means I watch all sorts of mma. I don't follow the name of the promotion as much as I follow mma in general. I am not the king of MMA knowledge. But I do have something to offer. You may not agree or even appreciate it. There are very few posters in this thread who's opinions I care about. But at least some of them try and add something. Which are you here?

You could always start a MMA thread, everything but UFC.

[Pfizer]

Pride only got into financial trouble when Fuji Broadcasting pulled out of their Television deal Because of the Yakuza. I don't think you realize just how much money the UFC makes for a PPV and what it pays out.

The last show had a buy rate of 2.5 million. Let's conservatively say they make 20 dollars from 39 dollar ppv. And I am guessing that is low. and the HD is 49 bucks

2.5 million x 20 = 50 million bucks. They probably paid out less than 3 million to the fighters. They could afford better Cards. They just have so many people at the trough drinking the Kool aid it's ridiculous. even at a 500 000 buy rate they still make 10 million at 20 bucks. Pride was a television driven show, not PPV driven. Once they lost television they were sunk.

you forgot to add them getting taxed.

UFC got 440 000 ppv buys in 2007. (2008 figures not out yet but they were averaging 420 000 in july i think)

[Pfizer]

That was seriously the coolest intro for a show EVER!! My god, if only the UFC could do something like that. Spend a little cash, ya know?

Agreed. That song was incredibly lame, and old galdiator guy is riduculous now. It's 2009, time for a change.

whoops sorry missed your post yesterday. Yeah UFC should put in more money for their intros. I mean if they dont like the all out opening, atleast change up the gladiator and the talking at the start.

[Harbinger]

Hey Pfizer. You posted an average of 440 000. But the error is you are only seeing American PPV's in that

Here is Meltzer's article on PPV rates and what the UFC made last year from jan 6

Lesnar blasts UFC toward record year

By Dave Meltzer, Yahoo! Sports Dec 12, 5:32 pm EST

*

More MMA Videos

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* Silva could lose license after fighting in Japan Jan 5, 2009

Yahoo! Sports

It’s been a crazy year for the pay-per-view business.

The three biggest pay-per-views in mixed martial arts were headlined by someone who had never even fought for the UFC before 2007, Brock Lesnar, and gained most of his fame as a pro wrestler, although he never pro wrestled during the year.

The biggest pay-per-view event in pro wrestling was headlined by one of the biggest names in boxing, Floyd Mayweather Jr., who never boxed during the year.

And the biggest event in boxing was headlined by what most were calling a mismatch, Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, with one fighter, Pacquiao having to jump up several weight classes for a bout heavily criticized beforehand. It turned out to be a mismatch, but not in the way most had predicted going in.

But when the dust settled on an unusual year, the biggest news of 2008 was the emergence of Lesnar as the year’s pay-per-view king. Lesnar’s 2.2 million buys over three fights made him the most-watched PPV fighter in 2008. His total was the second highest total in UFC history, trailing only Tito Ortiz, who did 2.25 million in headlining three events in 2006.

Lesnar, a former NCAA wrestling champion who had only one mixed martial arts fight before signing with UFC at the end of 2007, drew an estimate 1,010,000 buys for his heavyweight title win over Randy Couture at UFC 91 on Nov. 15. He also drew in the 600,000 buy range for both a February loss to Frank Mir and an August match with Heath Herring (which was part of a double headline event that also included Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch for the welterweight title), which were the fourth and fifth biggest PPV totals of the year.

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Lesnar’s fights brought a new audience to UFC broadcasts, with company officials estimating close to half of the audience for his debut fight had never purchased a UFC event before.

The new heavyweight champion’s impact also gives the UFC a shot at having the biggest business year in the history of pay-per-view sports.

With one event left on the calendar, the Dec. 27 UFC 92 event from Las Vegas, the company is estimated at selling 5,315,000 pay-per-view orders totaling $237.9 million, already handily beating their marks in the $220-225 million range of 2006 and 2007.

With 12 pay-per-view events in 2008, UFC has a good shot at breaking the all-time record for pay-per-view revenue set by any organization during a calendar year. The World Wrestling Federation, now known as World Wrestling Entertainment, did approximately $260 million on pay-per-view during its heyday fueled headliners by “Stone Cold” Steve Austin and Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, in 2001. Boxing’s biggest year was 2007, with HBO estimating $255 million on eight shows, carried by the Oscar De La Hoya vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr., fight, which drew pay-per-view’s all-time record of 2.4 million buys.

Top 10 North American PPV buy rates, 2008

1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000

2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000

3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul “Big Show” Wight, March 30, 670,000

4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000

5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000

6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000

7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000

8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000

9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000

10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000

UFC needs about 514,000 buys out of its final show of the year to break the WWF single-year revenue record. The show features a triple bill of Forrest Griffin vs. Rashad Evans for the light heavyweight title, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Frank Mir for the interim heavyweight title and a future shot at Lesnar to unify the titles, and Wanderlei Silva vs. Quinton Jackson.

That lineup, the deepest of the year in terms of marquee matches, should surpass that number, although an uncertain economy makes that slightly less than a slam dunk. The numbers for the most recent show do strengthen UFC president Dana White’s position that the faltering economy will not affect the company on pay-per-view, although conceded it will affect them when it comes to selling high-priced tickets to live events, as well as in sponsorships.

Lesnar vs. Couture was the second highest buy rate in company history, trailing a 1,050,000 estimate for the 2006 match with Chuck Liddell defending the light heavyweight title against Tito Ortiz. There is the possibility, with late-recorded PPV buys, that it could end up as the record holder.

With UFC’s biggest numbers usually drawn by light heavyweights, it was the biggest-drawing heavyweight fight in North America since the 2002 Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson boxing championship match.

Based on Couture’s pay-per-view bonuses, which were revealed in a 2007 press conference after Couture quit UFC, and the numbers released, Couture would get a total of $2.61 million for the fight, more than double his prior biggest career earnings for any fight, of which $2.36 million came from the back end. Lesnar’s take is unknown due to his percentage not being released, other than he received $450,000 before any bonuses kicked in.

HBO boxing, which finished its year on pay-per-view on Saturday with the De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao fight, is estimated at 3.57 million buys and $183.2 million in gross revenue on nine events. The Dec. 6 showdown was the single biggest pay-per-view event of the year, doing 1,250,000 buys and $70 million in total revenue, making it the third biggest non-heavyweight fight in history.

“We heard some crazy numbers the last few days about what the show might do,” said UFC president Dana White. “That’s a great number and it’s Oscar De La Hoya. I’ve always said boxing has De La Hoya and there’s nobody else like him. To be as big an event as that was, and for us (with Lesnar vs. Couture) in this short of a time to end up with right them, I’m really pumped up about it.”

The biggest pro wrestling event, WWE’s annual WrestleMania, promoted around Mayweather’s debut as a pro wrestler, culminating several live appearances for the group, did 1,058,000 buys worldwide, but WWE does a substantial portion of its business outside North America. North American numbers for the show are estimated at 670,000, putting it as the third biggest event of the year.

All three of the biggest events of the year came under heavy criticism. Mayweather was criticized for being involved with pro wrestling. UFC was criticized first for pushing Lesnar, even though his NCAA championship in amateur wrestling, size and athletic credentials made him clearly an incredible prospect at the sport. Later, they were criticized for giving him a championship match while only having a 2-1 record, which was valid criticism on paper, but like with the criticism of De La Hoya vs. Pacquiao, the guy who was supposed to be mismatched ended up winning.

With its November event numbers not reported yet, and a final event scheduled for Sunday, WWE has sold 4,125,000 pay-per-view orders so far this year, with approximately 2.7 million in North America, on 12 events. The total gross revenue at this point would be about $123 million domestically.

Of the top ten domestic shows of the year, UFC will have likely end up with seven, with the three Lesnar events, as well as shows headlined by St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, B.J. Penn vs. Sean Shark, Jackson vs. Griffin and Liddell vs. Evans. The year-end show will likely end up in the top ten. Boxing will have two, with Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr. cracking the top ten, while pro wrestling will have one. The 7-2-1 breakdown is identical to both 2007 and 2006.

They have plenty of money and plenty of money left over. This doesn't include dvd sales. Tv show rights. So on and so Forth. This doesn't even factor in international PPV buy rates. But regardless of that fact. There is Plenty of money even after taxes.

I agree that the boxing model is Garbage. Completely But it's still Better than UFC. Independent contractors able to fight where they want versus Being controlled by an entity that has no Official Rankings. This is why in the Last 9 years we have yet to see the Two top heavy weights in the world fight. That is a joke. As for Soccer. I would prefer that system completely. I am not saying that fighters should be capped or uncapped. I would prefer they make more money. But having a major governing body that reigns in all the promotions is a good idea.

As for fight fixing. I watched Couture/Lesnar. I am pretty sure that fight was a complete job.

Now i dont think UFC is the best. They do some shady things too but its the best thing we have at the moment.

In North America MMA is a sport, in Japan it was an event. The culture there doesnt care who wins or loses a fight. They just care about a fight. In north america winning means more.

Because this part really needed to be quoted.... In North America UFC is just an event.

It's because you understand Pfizer even though we don't totally agree. That I enjoy reading your posts.

Since you added a video I'm adding one aswell.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Harbinger

[Pfizer]

Hey Pfizer. You posted an average of 440 000. But the error is you are only seeing American PPV's in that

Here is Meltzer's article on PPV rates and what the UFC made last year from jan 6

They have plenty of money and plenty of money left over. This doesn't include dvd sales. Tv show rights. So on and so Forth. This doesn't even factor in international PPV buy rates. But regardless of that fact. There is Plenty of money even after taxes.

With one event left on the calendar, the Dec. 27 UFC 92 event from Las Vegas, the company is estimated at selling 5,315,000 pay-per-view orders totaling $237.9 million, already handily beating their marks in the $220-225 million range of 2006 and 2007.

Yeah 5 million is the total buys for 2008. The first show in January was UFC 80. The last show in 2008 was UFC 92. Thats 12 UFC's. 5 million divided by 12 = 416 666 buys on average. They were on pace for 420 000 like i showed up top. But a lot of that has to do with the company expanding, more viewers and the huge amount of people Brock Lesnar brings in. UFC 91 did almost more buys than Tito Vs Chuck. And Brock is not a real Mixed martial artists yet.

The list that i got was from InsideMMA hoted by Bas. They get their information i believe from Dave Meltzer too and his findings on wrestling observer and his column on yahoo. I think they are talking total as well.

In England they dont use the PPV system. They use Santanta sports. They pay a monthly fee to get all type of sports. North America is different.

But like i said before i do think the fighters deserve more money especially with Dana Driving around in his ferrari and guys on the low end making like $7 0000. And yeah we didnt factor everything like DVD sales where the fighters i dont think get a cut, and the promotional money they receeiver from harley davidson, miller lite or whatever. But also in UFC's defence they are trying to reinvest the money back into the company and make it global. I think the pay will get higher and higher as georges st pierre said in an interview. I think the company should go public with their earning so everyone can get a better insight. At the moment we are all kind of guessing who is getting paid what because even the fighters dont want to tell you how much they make.

I agree that the boxing model is Garbage. Completely But it's still Better than UFC. Independent contractors able to fight where they want versus Being controlled by an entity that has no Official Rankings. This is why in the Last 9 years we have yet to see the Two top heavy weights in the world fight. That is a joke. As for Soccer. I would prefer that system completely. I am not saying that fighters should be capped or uncapped. I would prefer they make more money. But having a major governing body that reigns in all the promotions is a good idea. As for fight fixing. I watched Couture/Lesnar. I am pretty sure that fight was a complete job.

I think Couture can not handle Brock. Couture is getting old. Same with Noguiera hes taken one too many shots. He looked horrible in that match. Couture is up and down. The only reason why he wanted to fight brock first was to get paid. He knew if he fought Big Nog he would lose and he wouldnt make much money. Because I mean who wants to see Fedor vs Couture now? Not that i ever really did because I always though Fedor was a true heavyweight champion while Couture was just the the king in a weak HW division. Its tougher to fix a fight in UFC because the refs are not the UFC. They belong to the Nevada State Atheltic Comission. In Japan that fight is not sanctioned so they can do what they want. Tell their refs to work the fight, tell the fighters etc.

Because this part really needed to be quoted.... In North America UFC is just an event.

It's because you understand Pfizer even though we don't totally agree. That I enjoy reading your posts.

Since you added a video I'm adding one aswell.

haha I guess we will have to just disagree on this. I think if you fix the matches, and arent sanctioned as a sport, dont care who wins or loses like Pride did you are an event.

If a governing body referees your show, and winning and losing are important then you have a sport.

Thanks yeah the debate is fun. I enjoy reading almost everyone's posts here. Well done ole chap.

[Pfizer]

master of the rubber guard Eddie Bravo and i think best friend of Joe Rogan will be in Vancouver tomorrow folks at 10th planet jiu jitsu on hastings street near the PNE. If anyone wants to see him in person teach jiu jitsu moves. He has his own type of jiu jitsu that hes developed.

Eddie tapped out Royler Gracie at ADCC (Abu Dhabi Combat Club) Submission Wrestling World Championship) Royler has won that more than anyone and also a record of 3 years in a row. Its a place where you get invited kind of like the movie bloodsport and the best compete in jiu jitsu. It was pretty big an american tapping the brazilian dude out.

We are 1 week from our pre-opening date of December 1st !!

Why are we calling it our pre-opening…. because we are giving you a chance to jump aboard and join 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu and MMA for a limited time pricing event!

How does Free Training for December sound? It’s true… training from Dec 1st to Dec 19th is FREE for all 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu and MMA classes! All you have to do is pay the $99 registration free (which includes a 10th Planet shirt and a pair of MMA gloves) and that’s all! No catches, no contracts, no hassles!

After a month of free training if you wish to join us on a more permanent basis, during our Grand Opening week of January 5th, you will be offered even more discounts and free training time!

The first 20 people to join us December 1st will receive :

- a free private lessons of your choice (Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Boxing, Kali, JKD or Thai Boxing)

- 50% off the next Eddie Bravo Seminar (worth $60)

- you will be entered to win our bi-yearly $500 prize give away

- gain special access to our Team Conditioning Trainer and our Team Dietitian

If you can’t train on a regular basis our 12 class punch cards are on sale for only $75 for the first week of training!!!

What makes us different?

- more mat time… 4 - 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu classes a week (6 hours a week of just Jiu Jitsu!)

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- Free workout and nutritional plans upon sign up!

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Schedule link:

http://www.10thplanetvancouver.com/schedule.asp

Full website link:

http://www.10thplanetvancouver.com

***** Make sure that you are among the lucky first 20 people and email us at 10thplanetvancouver.com and we will send you an online payment request for $99 which you can make by visa or mastercard! *****

Welcome to the Revolution! Welcome to 10th Planet Vancouver!

"How does Free Training for December sound? It’s true… training from Dec 1st to Dec 19th is FREE for all 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu and MMA classes! All you have to do is pay the $99 registration free"

its free all you have to do is pay $100.

or you can download his dvd: "mastering the rubberguard" on the interwebzzzz i've said too much.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Pfizer

[TheIrishHandGernade]

I know this is UFC but is anybody going to watch Fedor vs Arlovski?

[Harbinger]

I know this is UFC but is anybody going to watch Fedor vs Arlovski?

Yes. for sure.

[Gretzky's Mullet]

"How does Free Training for December sound? It’s true… training from Dec 1st to Dec 19th is FREE for all 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu and MMA classes! All you have to do is pay the $99 registration free"

its free all you have to do is pay $100.

or you can download his dvd: "mastering the rubberguard" on the interwebzzzz i've said too much.

That's definitely a somewhat subjective definition of "free".

[TheIrishHandGernade]

Yes. for sure.

Who you cheering for and who do you think will win?

[theboss-]

Who you cheering for and who do you think will win?

[Harbinger]

Not cheering for either of them. Praying just for a good fight. And if Fedor wins. It'll just add a little more to his legend.

[theboss-]

UFCs trying to come to Richmond.

http://www.canada.com/richmondnews/news/st...3c-811da005217e

TV presenter and comedian Joe Rogan is planning to campaign for the controversial Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) to be hosted in Richmond.

"(Joe) plans to speak to either Richmond or Coquitlam with a view to allowing UFC to take place in one of those cities," said River Rock's Howard Blank, vice-president of casino owner Great Canadian Gaming.

[TheIrishHandGernade]

Same Arlovski is badass

[Innovative]

UFCs trying to come to Richmond.

http://www.canada.com/richmondnews/news/st...3c-811da005217e

TV presenter and comedian Joe Rogan is planning to campaign for the controversial Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) to be hosted in Richmond.

"(Joe) plans to speak to either Richmond or Coquitlam with a view to allowing UFC to take place in one of those cities," said River Rock's Howard Blank, vice-president of casino owner Great Canadian Gaming.

I hope he's successful. It's a shame that MMA events are banned in Vancouver, a UFC PPV at GM Place would be amazing.

[rampage]

Same Arlovski is badass

yeeeeeeah

[Trade Deadline]

Size: Fedor > Arlovski.

Experience: Fedor > Arlovski

Striking: Fedor > Arlovski

Ground Game: Fedor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arlovski

Speed: Arlovski > Fedor

With that being said, Arlovski doesn't stand a chance.

Upsets happen but I can't see the Russian losing....ever.

[Famous]

Actually you could probably give the striking advantage to Arlovski or make it equal since Arlovski is known to be a pure boxer on his feet. If you watch his training videos for this fight you'll see how focused he is on his striking.