***The UFC/MMA THREAD***

[Raoul Duke]

To the person who posted the BJ Penn entrance, I agree it was really nice. It's nice to see someone entering with music that represents who they are instead of the same generic metal crap most other fighters go out to.

For more info the person who sings it is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole

His song somewhere over the rainbow was the song for the ending credits of 50 first dates with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Kamakawiwo%27ole

Do you the name of the same BJ came out to?? He's used it during the last few fights or so and I've always dug it.

[Oranje]

Also, does anyone else think Dong(lol dong) Hyun Kim had the decision over Parisyan?

I'd agree with that. I think the judges also got it wrong giving Clay Guida only a split decision victory. Thought he deserved unanimous.

I hope Lyoto Machida gets the winner of Jardine/ Jackson v. Evans, but I guess he'll need another fight in the mean time. Maybe Machida v. Wanderlei Silva?

[Oranje]

BJ Penn's entrance music.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HfrzjsxALFM

Edited February 2, 2009 by Oranje_1986

[Raoul Duke]

I'd agree with that. I think the judges also got it wrong giving Clay Guida only a split decision victory. Thought he deserved unanimous.

I hope Lyoto Machida gets the winner of Jardine/ Jackson v. Evans, but I guess he'll need another fight in the mean time. Maybe Machida v. Wanderlei Silva?

I'm so sick of how the UFC treats their rankings. To say that Keith Jardine is even near the top 3 contenders at LHW is a joke, let alone Wandereli.

I became a fan of Lyoto after he beat Tito, and beacme a huge fan after that KO last night. And I was cheering for Thiago!! But how he doesn't get Rashad next is beyond me. That fight would be sick. But no.... it's not marketable. It's not Rampage or Wanderlei. It's not Chucky boy (you know damn well their feeding Shogun to Chuck to boost him up). IMO< Lyoto would destroy any of the fighters mentioned above, besides Rashad. I think that one could be a coin toss.

While on the subject of rankings, what is everyone's personal ranking in the UFC right now? Mine....

Lightweight

1. BJ Penn

2. Kenny Florian

3. Sean Sherk

4. Frank Edgar

5. Joe Stevenson

HM's: Nate Diaz, Tyson Griffin, Clay Guida, Jeremy Stephens

Welterweight

1. Georges St-Pierre

2. Thiago Alves

3. Josh Koschek

4. Jon Fitch

5. Mike Swick

HM's: Marcus Davis, Anthony Johnson

Middleweight

1. Anderson Silva

2. Demian Maia

3. Thales Lietes (although IMO, he LOST to Marquadt)

4. Nate Marquardt (see above)

5. Patrick Cote

HM's: Dan Henderson, Rousimar Palhares, Micahel Bisping

Light Heavyweight

1. Rashad Evans

2. Lyoto Machida

3. Rampage Jackson

4. Luiz Cane

5. Forrest Griffin

HM's: Rich Franklin, Keith Jardine

Heavyweight

1. Frank Mir

2. Brock Lesnar

3. Cheick Kongo

4. Gabriel Gonzaga

5. Randy Couture

HM's: Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Minotauro Nogeuira

[Harbinger]

Isn't the whole point of "pound-for-pound" not to make distinctions about which weight a guy fights at? I understand arguments about certain weight classes being weaker or stronger, but trying to bar someone from p4p contention because they fight in one of the lower weight classes doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Fighting someone who is definitely smaller than you shouldn't enhance your p4p status if you win. But if you lose. It should definitely take it down a few notches. I'm not barring GSP I think he is probably the second best fighter out there. With Silva being number 3. But there is absolutely no way in my mind that I can put GSP above fedor for now.

Here is the reasoning of why your P4P shouldn't go up if you are fighting below your weight class. If you are in highschool. And you have a guy in senior high going down and kicking some Junior high guys donkey. Would you consider the senior making a name for himself. Or is he just beating someone up he should really be leaving alone. On the other hand. If the Junior high guy wins. That's a big deal.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Harbinger

[masutheakita]

Fighting someone who is definitely smaller than you shouldn't enhance your p4p status if you win. But if you lose. It should definitely take it down a few notches. I'm not barring GSP I think he is probably the second best fighter out there. With Silva being number 3. But there is absolutely no way in my mind that I can put GSP above fedor for now.

Here is the reasoning of why your P4P shouldn't go up if you are fighting below your weight class. If you are in highschool. And you have a guy in senior high going down and kicking some Junior high guys donkey. Would you consider the senior making a name for himself. Or is he just beating someone up he should really be leaving alone. On the other hand. If the Junior high guy wins. That's a big deal.

by your logic.... if bj penn won yesterday then he would of been #1 p4p since he's would of been a giant killer....

but of course you'd find some reason why fedor would still be #1.

[Harbinger]

by your logic.... if bj penn won yesterday then he would of been #1 p4p since he's would of been a giant killer....

but of course you'd find some reason why fedor would still be #1.

He would have made progress. in that respect for sure. But he's been beaten down enough times that he will never be considered the best fighter on the planet.

2:15 in. That's all anyone needs to hear

Edited February 2, 2009 by Harbinger

[masutheakita]

He would have made progress. in that respect for sure. But he's been beaten down enough times that he will never be considered the best fighter on the planet.

judging by one of your previous post, i think you are confusing best fighter and best p4p.

if you bj, anderson silva, gsp, fedor were in a fight today, very few would deny that fedor would win.

but if they all weighed the same and their skill set/strength/speed can be extrapolated, then it is very likely that fedor could be beat.

we get it, you are a fedor fan and it is fun to debate p4p, but it is a "fantasy" comparison that will never be proven conclusively.

Edited February 2, 2009 by masutheakita

[Harbinger]

judging by one of your previous post, i think you are confusing best fighter and p4p.

if you bj, anderson silva, gsp, fedor were in a fight today, very few would deny that fedor would win.

but if they all weighed the same and their skill set/strength can be extrapolated, then it is very likely that fedor could be beat.

we get it, you are a fedor fan and it is fun to debate p4p, but it is a "fantasy" comparison that will never be proven conclusively.

Agreed. It will never be proven conclusively. The major difference between these guys is Fedor fights at his regular weight. Which happens to be the one weight class that there can be a 60 lb difference. Everyone else avoids fighting in their regular weight class to fight lower weighted guys for a size advantage. If GSP was 160 lbs fighting 170. That would be completely different than a guy going in two weight classes above his weighin weight. Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

[Oranje]

I'm so sick of how the UFC treats their rankings. To say that Keith Jardine is even near the top 3 contenders at LHW is a joke, let alone Wandereli.

I became a fan of Lyoto after he beat Tito, and beacme a huge fan after that KO last night. And I was cheering for Thiago!! But how he doesn't get Rashad next is beyond me. That fight would be sick. But no.... it's not marketable. It's not Rampage or Wanderlei. It's not Chucky boy (you know damn well their feeding Shogun to Chuck to boost him up). IMO< Lyoto would destroy any of the fighters mentioned above, besides Rashad. I think that one could be a coin toss.

From what I understand, Jackson v. Jardine is a #1 contender fight. I totally agree that Jardine isn't near the top of the LHW division. He followed up a loss to Wanderlei, with a split decision victory versus Vera and somehow that vaults him into title contention. UFC needs to get away from doing things for simply a marketability standpoint.

So you're thinking Chuck over Shogun? I'm thinking this fight will be Liddell's curtain call after another loss. I think Shogun is only going to get better in the UFC as he gets more cage fights under his belt.

While on the subject of rankings, what is everyone's personal ranking in the UFC right now? Mine....

Lightweight

1. BJ Penn

2. Kenny Florian

3. Sean Sherk

4. Frank Edgar

5. Joe Stevenson

HM's: Nate Diaz, Tyson Griffin, Clay Guida, Jeremy Stephens

Welterweight

1. Georges St-Pierre

2. Thiago Alves

3. Josh Koschek

4. Jon Fitch

5. Mike Swick

HM's: Marcus Davis, Anthony Johnson

Middleweight

1. Anderson Silva

2. Demian Maia

3. Thales Lietes (although IMO, he LOST to Marquadt)

4. Nate Marquardt (see above)

5. Patrick Cote

HM's: Dan Henderson, Rousimar Palhares, Micahel Bisping

Light Heavyweight

1. Rashad Evans

2. Lyoto Machida

3. Rampage Jackson

4. Luiz Cane

5. Forrest Griffin

HM's: Rich Franklin, Keith Jardine

Heavyweight

1. Frank Mir

2. Brock Lesnar

3. Cheick Kongo

4. Gabriel Gonzaga

5. Randy Couture

HM's: Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Minotauro Nogeuira

I pretty much agree with these rankings, although I'd rate Fitch over Koscheck and I'd make Yushin Okami a HM at middleweight.

Also, I know Diego Sanchez has yet to have a fight at 155, but I think it's only a matter of time before we see him there. I was about to ask why you didn't put Roger Huerta in the top 5, but after a bit of research I see he has decided to get in to acting and postpone his MMA career. Bad move IMO.

I really hope we get to see Ken Flo v. Penn at some point this year.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Oranje_1986

[Raoul Duke]

From what I understand, Jackson v. Jardine is a #1 contender fight. I totally agree that Jardine isn't near the top of the LHW division. He followed up a loss to Wanderlei, with a split decision victory versus Vera and somehow that vaults him into title contention. UFC needs to get away from doing things for simply a marketability standpoint.

So you're thinking Chuck over Shogun? I'm thinking this fight will be Liddell's curtain call after another loss. I think Shogun is only going to get better in the UFC as he gets more cage fights under his belt.

I dunno. Shogun was the man in Pride, but has looked like a tool in his two UFC bouts. I mean, how do you gas against a senior citizen like Coleman?

I pretty much agree with these rankings, although I'd rate Fitch over Koscheck and I'd make Yushin Okami a HM at middleweight.

Also, I know Diego Sanchez has yet to have a fight at 155, but I think it's only a matter of time before we see him there. I was about to ask why you didn't put Roger Huerta in the top 5, but after a bit of research I see he has decided to get in to acting and postpone his MMA career. Bad move IMO.

I really hope we get to see Ken Flo v. Penn at some point this year.

Diego will definetly move up eventually, but it all depends on his LW debut too. IF Joe beats him.... I wouldn't even rank him. But I see Diego taking that one.

[masutheakita]

Agreed. It will never be proven conclusively. The major difference between these guys is Fedor fights at his regular weight. Which happens to be the one weight class that there can be a 60 lb difference. Everyone else avoids fighting in their regular weight class to fight lower weighted guys for a size advantage. If GSP was 160 lbs fighting 170. That would be completely different than a guy going in two weight classes above his weighin weight. Hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

yes, you have mentioned that a few times and it is one interesting factor amongst many.

if weight was the only factor, can we say that a 300lb fedor is better than a 235 lb fedor? probably not. so he fights at a weight that he is comfortable at.

don't forget cutting weight is also a skill and part of rules of the game. it is probably safe to say that most of the people in a certain weight class, will cut weight to make the upper limit. even in hw, most fighters probably walk around at a higher than competition weight.

edit: that being said, when gsp is done with 170 his next challenge would be to go up to 185. hopefully he'll get some experience before going after anderson silva but with silva's eminent retirement, this will probably happen sooner than later

Edited February 2, 2009 by masutheakita

[Harbinger]

yes, you have mentioned that a few times and it is one interesting factor amongst many.

if weight was the only factor, can we say that a 300lb fedor is better than a 235 lb fedor? probably not. so he fights at a weight that he is comfortable at.

don't forget cutting weight is also a skill and part of rules of the game. it is probably safe to say that most of the people in a certain weight class, will cut weight to make the upper limit. even in hw, most fighters probably walk around at a higher than competition weight.

edit: that being said, when gsp is done with 170 his next challenge would be to go up to 185. hopefully he'll get some experience before going after anderson silva but with silva's eminent retirement, this will probably happen sooner than later

I'm not sure That GSP wants to fight guys his own size or bigger. As for heavy weights cutting. Cutting is only something a person does to make his weight. It's not like body building where someone cuts weight to look more ripped. You may cut weight to get to your optimum fighting weight but that is a whole lot different than cutting weight to gain a size advantage in another weight class. And yes it is part of the game. But it should really be removed. all They have to do is add another weigh in an hour before the fight. It could be done in the dressing room. That would make cutting completely obsolete.

[Harbinger]

I dunno. Shogun was the man in Pride, but has looked like a tool in his two UFC bouts. I mean, how do you gas against a senior citizen like Coleman?

In pride rules the fight against Coleman would have been over in the first where he would have booted his head off. As for gassing he embarrassed himself. The Fight with Forrest. That was all Forrest no question about it. If you watch Shogun during his fights in the UFC. He is tentative about what he is allowed and not allowed to do.

[masutheakita]

I'm not sure That GSP wants to fight guys his own size or bigger. As for heavy weights cutting. Cutting is only something a person does to make his weight. It's not like body building where someone cuts weight to look more ripped. You may cut weight to get to your optimum fighting weight but that is a whole lot different than cutting weight to gain a size advantage in another weight class. And yes it is part of the game. But it should really be removed. all They have to do is add another weigh in an hour before the fight. It could be done in the dressing room. That would make cutting completely obsolete.

they will probably never risk leaving weigh-in to 1 hour before a fight considering there will be 10,000+ fans rioting if someone misses weight.

you believe that gsp cuts to gain an advantage before.

i will counter that most fighters within a weight class will cut 10% for weight-in and then put weight back on before the fight and therefore the advantage is negligible.

other than the bj fight (because we all know that bj moved up a class to fight), who else did he have a significant advantage over?

are there a list of fight day weight stats to prove who is correct?

as it is late, this is probably my last post on this subject

Edited February 2, 2009 by masutheakita

[Harbinger]

they will probably never risk leaving weigh-in to 1 hour before a fight considering there will be 10,000+ fans rioting if someone misses weight.

you believe that gsp cuts to gain an advantage before.

i will counter that most fighters within a weight class will cut 10% for weight-in and then put weight back on before the fight and therefore the advantage is negligible.

other than the bj fight (because we all know that bj moved up a class to fight), who else did he have a significant advantage over?

are there a list of fight day weight stats to prove who is correct?

as it is late, this is probably my last post on this subject

People do not disclose they're actual fight weights since it taints the fights.

[Harbinger]

Tommy Carruthers doing Jeet kune do.

[cuporbust]

Just wait until Alves and GSP fight, look at the size difference lastnight. Alves will be a very tough fight for GSP Isure hope he takes his as serious as Penn.

Yeah it will be a tougher fight i think

[Jab316]

Penn is a better, tougher fighter than GSP. Penn's hands are heavy, GSP's are not. GSP cuts weight for this fight Penn moves up to take this fight, that is GSP's only advantage, although a huge one. Penn has fought at a higher weight class top notch guys, GSP couldn't do the same. If their 1st fight had of gone on 1 more minute GSP would have been done. In fact I'd be surprised if GSP even stands with Penn, he'll probably try and shoot/tackle Penn imediately to avoid Penn's superior punching power. ''If'' it goes to decision, GSP could be on a stretcher, in a coma and they'd still give him the win. Penn should take this in the first unless GSP stalls and backpeddles endlessly.

If GSP comes out to stand and engage, Penn takes him out. GSP will likely try and tackle Penn like he did with Serra. He was even afraid of Serra's power second time around.

LOL Fool

[CanuckinEdm]

If GSP was a real man and not French (J/K) he would fight Silva. Hes always talking about how he wants to be the know as one of the best but yet he wont go out of his comfort zone and fight a heavier guy like Penn did. Common GSP silence me and fight Silva.

Edit: anyone know what Penn fights at on fight night when hes a 155lbs?

Edited February 2, 2009 by CanuckinEdm